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CCP's Stealth Nerf to Hi, Lo, and Nullsec PVP All in One Stroke!
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Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#1 - 2012-10-12 19:51:23 UTC
As you are aware CCP is changing the behavior of NPCs in missions, complexes, and belts so that they switch targets. This is a good idea for increasing variety in missions except, well, it actually isn't.


  • It will only hurt level 5 mission runners and those who do 10/10 sites such as the infamous maze. Level 4 missions, belt ratting, sanctums, etc, will still be perfectly soloable by one man in a drake. Yes I solo sanctums in drakes, you mad bro?
  • It will just make drones tedious in missions and nerf gallente missioning paradigms such as the famous sentry drone dominix.


Without buffing the strength of the level 4 and belt rat NPCs significantly to the level of a miniature incursion, the target switching won't matter because it's one man in a drake still taking the same amount of incoming dps.

Why would CCP implement this change? I have no idea why they actually did, but I hope they realize this is going to happen.

CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


To me this seems like a nerf to solo pvp in hi, lo, and nullsec in one relatively small change. I really want to think this isn't some part of a larger plan to turn EVE into hello kitty online, and I want to have faith that EVE is still going to be a cold harsh universe, but these changes seem to contradict that.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#2 - 2012-10-12 19:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
wat

Edit:

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

To me this seems like a nerf to solo pvp in hi, lo, and nullsec in one relatively small change. I really want to think this isn't some part of a larger plan to turn EVE into hello kitty online, and I want to have faith that EVE is still going to be a cold harsh universe, but these changes seem to contradict that.

So hang on, CCP make semi-afk *Snip* harder to do with some AI tweaks, and yet youre complaining this is making EVE softer?

wat


EDIT: That's a big no to that kind of language, thank you - ISD Type40.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-10-12 20:10:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD TYPE40
Arkon Olacar wrote:
wat

Edit:

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

To me this seems like a nerf to solo pvp in hi, lo, and nullsec in one relatively small change. I really want to think this isn't some part of a larger plan to turn EVE into hello kitty online, and I want to have faith that EVE is still going to be a cold harsh universe, but these changes seem to contradict that.

So hang on, CCP make semi-afk *snip* harder to do with some AI tweaks, and yet youre complaining this is making EVE softer?

wat


Hello there Dr Reading Comprehension.

CCP is in fact making it EASIER. They are reducing the PVP risks associated with making money.


EDIT: Had to edit that quote - ISD Type40.
Aziesta
Binal Extensions
Xagenic Freymvork
#4 - 2012-10-12 20:21:36 UTC
All your points have been made many days ago by many other people in many other threads. Perhaps you and your special snowflake self should look in one of those.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#5 - 2012-10-12 20:22:48 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

Hello there Dr Reading Comprehension.

CCP is in fact making it EASIER. They are reducing the PVP risks associated with making money.

Ah I think I see where you're coming from now. I still think you are wrong:

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


  • Warp in, cloak, watch rats circlejerk til a dude in a tenjew appears, profit
  • If your PvP ship gets nuked by mission NPCs in the time it takes you to gank a mission boat, you sir are doing it very wrong.
  • Same as above.


I agree with your points about it hurting PvE activities, but I cannot see how this will have any meaningful impact on mission/ratting related PvP.
Suddenly Forums ForumKings
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-10-12 20:25:33 UTC
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

Hello there Dr Reading Comprehension.

CCP is in fact making it EASIER. They are reducing the PVP risks associated with making money.

Ah I think I see where you're coming from now. I still think you are wrong:

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


  • Warp in, cloak, watch rats circlejerk til a dude in a tenjew appears, profit
  • If your PvP ship gets nuked by mission NPCs in the time it takes you to gank a mission boat, you sir are doing it very wrong.
  • Same as above.


I agree with your points about it hurting PvE activities, but I cannot see how this will have any meaningful impact on mission/ratting related PvP.


Except that when you enter field you will have a chance of getting primaried and the longer the fight takes the greater that chance is.

I know I'm not the first to say this stuff and it has been said before, but CCP has proven they listen to the group that whines the loudest. If I don't whine on the forums I'll never get the game I want.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#7 - 2012-10-12 21:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


Yet another tough guy bitching that they might actually get killed in Eve.

And they reckon carebears whine. Roll

Instead of SOLO, bring a friend. Let him get primary, 50/50 - HALF the risk.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
LilRemmy
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2012-10-12 21:16:42 UTC  |  Edited by: LilRemmy
Touval Lysander wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


Yet another tough guy bitching that they might actually get killed in Eve.

And they reckon carebears whine. Roll

Instead of SOLO, bring a friend. Let him get primary, 50/50 - HALF the risk.



In my experience, the l33t players are the ones that cry the loudest when they die in EVE. Not the carebears.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#9 - 2012-10-12 21:18:40 UTC
LilRemmy wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


Yet another tough guy bitching that they might actually get killed in Eve.

And they reckon carebears whine. Roll

Instead of SOLO, bring a friend. Let him get primary, 50/50 - HALF the risk.



In my experience, the l33t players are the once that cry the loudest when they die in EVE. Not the carebears.

Yes sirreee....

Maybe the carebears can show these l33ts how to die gracefully. We have far more experience at it Blink

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Nikolai Dostoyevski
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-12 21:22:00 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

Hello there Dr Reading Comprehension.

CCP is in fact making it EASIER. They are reducing the PVP risks associated with making money.

Ah I think I see where you're coming from now. I still think you are wrong:

Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


  • Warp in, cloak, watch rats circlejerk til a dude in a tenjew appears, profit
  • If your PvP ship gets nuked by mission NPCs in the time it takes you to gank a mission boat, you sir are doing it very wrong.
  • Same as above.


I agree with your points about it hurting PvE activities, but I cannot see how this will have any meaningful impact on mission/ratting related PvP.


Except that when you enter field you will have a chance of getting primaried and the longer the fight takes the greater that chance is.

I know I'm not the first to say this stuff and it has been said before, but CCP has proven they listen to the group that whines the loudest. If I don't whine on the forums I'll never get the game I want.


MAN! I missed the part where we were able to test the new NPC AI and could tell that when we enter a field we have a chance of getting primaried over the guy that's engaged with the NPCs, even though we didn't fire a shot or logi.
Romvex
TURN LEFT
#11 - 2012-10-12 21:33:11 UTC
LilRemmy wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


Yet another tough guy bitching that they might actually get killed in Eve.

And they reckon carebears whine. Roll

Instead of SOLO, bring a friend. Let him get primary, 50/50 - HALF the risk.



In my experience, the l33t players are the once that cry the loudest when they die in EVE. Not the carebears.

i infact enjoy dying...
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#12 - 2012-10-12 21:38:49 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:
As you are aware CCP is changing the behavior of NPCs in missions, complexes, and belts so that they switch targets. This is a good idea for increasing variety in missions except, well, it actually isn't.


  • It will only hurt level 5 mission runners and those who do 10/10 sites such as the infamous maze. Level 4 missions, belt ratting, sanctums, etc, will still be perfectly soloable by one man in a drake. Yes I solo sanctums in drakes, you mad bro?
  • It will just make drones tedious in missions and nerf gallente missioning paradigms such as the famous sentry drone dominix.


Without buffing the strength of the level 4 and belt rat NPCs significantly to the level of a miniature incursion, the target switching won't matter because it's one man in a drake still taking the same amount of incoming dps.

Why would CCP implement this change? I have no idea why they actually did, but I hope they realize this is going to happen.

CCP is killing off these entire types of PVP.

  • Solo afk cloaking in a recon ship. Now when your pilgrim warps into that sanctum the rats will nuke you and the target will escape.
  • Solo Mission runner hunting. Whether you baited them by being a "ninja" or are at war with them, mission NPCs will nuke you when you enter the site with your pvp ship.
  • Solo Belt Hunting. Now the rats will nuke you when you warp into the belt to kill the ratter.


To me this seems like a nerf to solo pvp in hi, lo, and nullsec in one relatively small change. I really want to think this isn't some part of a larger plan to turn EVE into hello kitty online, and I want to have faith that EVE is still going to be a cold harsh universe, but these changes seem to contradict that.


Oh look... another sky is falling thread because the OP can't be asked to actually research what he's talking about...

They have repeatedly stated that while aggro from NPC's will switch, they will switch based on perceived threat levels that can be manipulated by players....

Rats will tend to shoot ships of similar size.... so if you warp an inty into an anom and tackle a ratter, the BS's and cruisers will mostly leave you alone while you might pickup aggro from frigates..... Oh man, this is Soooo hard to deal with.... I just can't handle it....

Seriously????
Belitch
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2012-10-12 21:39:40 UTC
So wait, if you run onto a battle field to kill lets say army frank. Your navy joe, why would the opposing force in the area try and kill you. Don't know maybe because you shoot at all targets in the opposing force, it could be your enemiesTwisted ally.

So you want to PVP but you want to have less risk then the guy running the mission, your still trespassing into that missions space, they will attack you.

They are making the game a bit harder I guess from your perspective but when did't the rouge not need to fight off 2 ppl at once.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#14 - 2012-10-12 21:40:44 UTC
CCP can't nerf PvP

As long as I am willing to do it, it gets done. They can nerf my ability to win every time but I will adapt.
Colonel Xaven
Perkone
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-10-12 21:42:38 UTC
2/10

www.facebook.com/RazorAlliance
Robert De'Arneth
#16 - 2012-10-12 21:52:25 UTC
Looking for one poster who is not a giant cry baby.

I'm a nerd, you can check my stats!! Skilling Int/Mem at 45 sp per minute is how I mack!     I'm like a lapdog, all bark no bite. 
III ZiggyBang
One Point 0
#17 - 2012-10-12 21:53:39 UTC
I'd like to respond to this thread but I'm worried that some patronizing ass of a moderator will edit my post. change it's meaning, and treat me like a juvenile who needs constant scrutiny & supervision to express himself.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#18 - 2012-10-12 22:03:33 UTC
III ZiggyBang wrote:
I'd like to respond to this thread but I'm worried that some patronizing ass of a moderator will edit my post. change it's meaning, and treat me like a juvenile who needs constant scrutiny & supervision to express himself.


This only happens if you act like a juvenile who needs scrutiny & supervision to express himself.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#19 - 2012-10-12 22:17:58 UTC
Suddenly Forums ForumKings wrote:

Except that when you enter field you will have a chance of getting primaried and the longer the fight takes the greater that chance is.

I know I'm not the first to say this stuff and it has been said before, but CCP has proven they listen to the group that whines the loudest. If I don't whine on the forums I'll never get the game I want.


Omg.... do you mean you may enter a site to gank a missioner and risk to be targetted by some NPC?????
This is clearly the end of any PvP in EvE!

How do they think you may PvP if when you try to kill someone in a PvE ship there isn't a 100% warranty that the whole NPC aggro will stay on him???
And you risk to be targetted by 1 or 2 NPC too!
And - mom - those NPC hurts!

Clearly slightly improving NPC AI will lead to the death of PvP.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#20 - 2012-10-12 22:27:34 UTC
OP might be a troll, but he's more or less right. However, this is more of a blob pvp buff than a solo pvp nerf. CCP isn't removing pvp where NPCs are concerned. They just want more active accounts.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
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