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CCP should inject PLEX
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Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#21 - 2012-10-12 03:46:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Lors Dornick wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:


So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe


But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all.

Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another.


Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling...

Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market...

now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense...

People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense.

***

No angst here btw... I am fine with it, one way or another - EVE is EVE, I just think it's odd that PLEX is going up so much when for so long it was rather like a "gold standard"... not any more now...
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#22 - 2012-10-12 03:48:54 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:


So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe


But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all.

Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another.


Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling...

Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market...

now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense...

People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense.

There is a much easier answer than injecting PLEX.

Inject risk. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#23 - 2012-10-12 03:52:12 UTC
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
BinaryData
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-10-12 03:54:02 UTC
I understand the original posters point. The inflation is outrageous. Case in point, Euro Dollar vs U.S. Dollar. The Euro dollar is nearly double what the American dollar is worth, therefor you have to spend twice as much to get what you want (out of the country).


I firmly believe that CCP does need to regulate it.
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#25 - 2012-10-12 03:54:15 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.


interesting thought, I like that... hmmm... def might help as the cost of the accountd would limit the number of "holding accounts' in most cases of small manipulation, but wouldn't do much for " Chinese gold farmer" types"
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#26 - 2012-10-12 03:54:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Bienator II wrote:
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.

I can see that working really well, what with the buddy program giving you a PLEX when your "buddy" signs up.

Yeah, think of all the limitations!!!!!

Injecting risk, on the other hand, would actually work.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#27 - 2012-10-12 03:58:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Gold and Silver shake the fraud out of the system, because you can't simply stamp it out on paper and make more of it, someone has to find it and get it physically out of the ground and bring it to market (real production) and then you can't sell more of it than there is (unless your in the "City" or "Wallstreet" in which case you can naked short it all you want I guess until the mob shows up with the certificates and trades them for torches and pitchforks...).

Yes... gold and silver is very hard to cause fraud with due to its finite amounts.
However this strength is also its PROBLEM because the workforce of the world will continue to grow and grow and grow. And with all those people working to get a chunk of that finite amount of gold and silver the value of those material(s) automatically goes up.
That's one of the reasons that the "gold standard" died out.

Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Putting PLEX to 400M max sell as a price control would keep the market steady and stop the "free" flow of easy ISK into the system...

Someone doesn't seem to understand how PLEX works.

PLEX does not create ISK. It transfers it from one person to another. The reason for the current prices of PLEX is due to either...

- speculation (people buying up the market and reselling at higher prices... which is completely "okay" in a pure capitalistic system)
- steady supply, high demand (more people are buying PLEX so they don't have to pay real money)
- lower supply, steady demand (there are the same amount of PLEX users but less people are paying RL money for PLEX)

And bear in mind that one of the main principles that CCP stands by is "non-interference" in EVE. They create and repurpose tools and rules... but they will never directly stop people from doing anything unless they pose a grave risk to the integrity of the game itself (ex. crashing the server, singling out and harassing a single player over a longer stretch of time for no good reason, etc).

How did you Veterans start?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-10-12 04:49:47 UTC
They don't need to artificially deflate plex cost. It's called a bubble. It's going to be hilarious when the legs are cut out from under it and the price starts to REALLY crash.
Kult Altol
The Safe Space
#29 - 2012-10-12 06:09:35 UTC
Most of you WoW kids are communist socialistic turds that think everything should be handed to them, so go ahead and inject plex, plex for everyone! jking.

[u]Can't wait untill when Eve online is Freemium.[/u] WiS only 10$, SP booster for one month 15$, DPS Boost 2$, EHP Boost 2$ Real money trading hub! Cosmeitic ship skins 15$ --> If you don't [u]pay **[/u]for a product, you ARE the [u]**product[/u].

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#30 - 2012-10-12 06:12:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Kult Altol wrote:
Most of you WoW kids are communist socialistic turds that think everything should be handed to them, so go ahead and inject plex, plex for everyone! jking.


PLEX for Winter Holidays! SWEET! Also joking.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Tech3ZH
Doomheim
#31 - 2012-10-12 06:42:40 UTC
Inject PLEX before leaving the station! ...oh...wait...that's not what's being talked about, is it? Dang, not again...
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#32 - 2012-10-12 06:43:27 UTC
He mad

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#33 - 2012-10-12 06:49:56 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
CCP should inject PLEX at a fixed price to knock the price down [and decrease the amount of ISK inflow per] until the market is back to 300-400M per... for 19.50 RL... that would help CCP's bottom line, keep the speculators in check, and deflate the price of other items as speculation goes down and real production builds back up the supply of other items...

... and consider a fixed max price of PLEX at a point in which it wouldn't allow prices above that price in sell orders and then let the market drive the price under that point... with that in place the PLEX to ISK would even out, and be like a "gold / silver " standard to RL money in the economy and anchor some valuation to PLEX in ISK, and in RL funds.


I too think that CCP should give away a few tens of thousands of dollars so that you can keep playing for free.


Wait, no I don't

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#34 - 2012-10-12 06:57:59 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.


Yes, this definitely isn't suceptible to being worked around Roll


How about you just accept that

(1) Lots of people want to play EVE for free, and are willing to give their ISK for this.

(2) A finite number of people want to spend extra money on EVE in order to get ISK

Where (1) is larger than (2), the market price of PLEX will rise until the number of people willing to pay the going rate for a PLEX drops into equilibrium with (2)

The "problem" is purely and simply that not enough people are buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK to keep the ISK price down to a level that you have decided is appropriate.

If CCP capped the PLEX price in some way, then even fewer would pay $35 for a GTC, so there would be less PLEX available. But demand wouldn't have changed, so all you've done is create a black market, which means that even fewer PLEX would be available on the open market for the "official" price.

As it is, I understand that CCP use PLEX and ISK siezed from RMTers and botters to dampen out speculative surges on the PLEX market. But against a long term trend, this tactic will eventually be ineffective.

The simple fact is that trillions of new ISK flood into the EVE economy every month, and the number of people actually play stays constant. There are more and more ISK available to buy PLEX with, and the number of new PLEX being created isn't changing much. Therefore PLEX prices rise.

If you want to stop PLEX prices rising, encourage CCP to create new ISK sinks and throttle back ISK fountains.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#35 - 2012-10-12 07:02:30 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Bienator II wrote:
What ccp could do is to limit the amount of plex an account can store. But this wont happen.


Yes, this definitely isn't suceptible to being worked around Roll


How about you just accept that

(1) Lots of people want to play EVE for free, and are willing to give their ISK for this.

(2) A finite number of people want to spend extra money on EVE in order to get ISK

Where (1) is larger than (2), the market price of PLEX will rise until the number of people willing to pay the going rate for a PLEX drops into equilibrium with (2)

The "problem" is purely and simply that not enough people are buying PLEX for real money and selling it for ISK to keep the ISK price down to a level that you have decided is appropriate.

If CCP capped the PLEX price in some way, then even fewer would pay $35 for a GTC, so there would be less PLEX available. But demand wouldn't have changed, so all you've done is create a black market, which means that even fewer PLEX would be available on the open market for the "official" price.

As it is, I understand that CCP use PLEX and ISK siezed from RMTers and botters to dampen out speculative surges on the PLEX market. But against a long term trend, this tactic will eventually be ineffective.

The simple fact is that trillions of new ISK flood into the EVE economy every month, and the number of people actually play stays constant. There are more and more ISK available to buy PLEX with, and the number of new PLEX being created isn't changing much. Therefore PLEX prices rise.

If you want to stop PLEX prices rising, encourage CCP to create new ISK sinks and throttle back ISK fountains.

I wanted to point out that when products' values are high, more ISK is destroyed in every single transaction.

That's good for Eve's economy, both virtual and real.

We can achieve that through added risk.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Aurelius Valentius
Valentius Corporation
Valentius Corporation Alliance
#36 - 2012-10-12 07:12:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Aurelius Valentius
Sounds like everyone's in to the theory that if war is good for the economy, nuclear war is better and blowing up the planet is best of all... think of the expense of arms and the profits... never mind no one would survive to enjoy the bounty!...

You all have swollowed the modern economic cool-aide by the bucket load... perhaps you should look more at what Thomas Paine commented on about 1800s on the other options...

I sit with the "American School" ... not the others...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)
Tech3ZH
Doomheim
#37 - 2012-10-12 07:49:07 UTC
So...are you saying nuke Jita?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#38 - 2012-10-12 07:51:49 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Sounds like everyone's in to the theory that if war is good for the economy, nuclear war is better and blowing up the planet is best of all... think of the expense of arms and the profits... never mind no one would survive to enjoy the bounty!...

You all have swollowed the modern economic cool-aide by the bucket load... perhaps you should look more at what Thomas Paine commented on about 1800s on the other options...

I sit with the "American School" ... not the others...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_School_(economics)

Well there's an obvious difference between risk and shutting down the servers. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jim Hazard
Fury Industry
#39 - 2012-10-12 08:10:59 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:
Lors Dornick wrote:
Aurelius Valentius wrote:


So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe


But again, ETC/PLEX doesn't dump or add any ISK to the game at all.

Selling a PLEX in game only moves ISK from one player to another.


Not quite... becaue while ISK is moved around, and not created, it's like a credit card... you can grand yourself "potential ISK" to use as a means to collateralize your gambling...

Lets say I whip out the CC and drop 10,000.00 RL on ETC... and then go into game... PLEX in hand... then I park myself in Jita and Amarr and a few other hubs and start to use my new PLEX hoard to fund a "pump and dump" PLEX campaign against the people working for PLEX with time spend mining, producing and so on... I buy up and hoard, and only resell on the highest end... any one lower I keep off the market with "buying cheap" and "selling dear" until I have taken most fo the competition off the make and left only my much inflated prices monopolies on the market...

now I am not sayin one person could do this, (they could) but def large groups of people could easily do this to the market... and that seems to be the case here, it's an economic war against the working-class of EVE in a sense...

People that put in time to work to play v. people that simply pump in RL funds to fund "golden ammo" in a sense and play with no stake in the economy other an as consumers, while the producers of the goods are starved out of the game in a sense.

***

No angst here btw... I am fine with it, one way or another - EVE is EVE, I just think it's odd that PLEX is going up so much when for so long it was rather like a "gold standard"... not any more now...


Hey Mr. Economics genius how about you go and talk to some people in RL about how good cornering a market works 90% of the time. I am sure they will make very happy faces when they tell you the story how they lost millions or even billions trying to do that.

That kind of idea will not work in your favor for 1 very simple reason. You can not get the monopoly on the Plex market like that. Yes you can drive the price up temporary, but you will not be able to keep the price up without investing over and over again and at some point will run out of ISK reserves to keep buying the plex of anyone else putting plex on the market. And if you try to force the price staying at a certain level all you do is invest over and over again while the people who only ride on the wave make a fortune.

But hey go for it. I will gladly jump on the train and make some money from your attempt to corner the market while you keep stockpiling your plex until you run out of ISK and crash the market yourself at some point.
Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#40 - 2012-10-12 08:11:29 UTC
Aurelius Valentius wrote:

So it would seem to me that CCP is now printing ETC/PLEX that dump double the ISK on the universe and collecting 1/2 the RL money for it... and it's injecting "cheap" money into the economy... which allows for more "speculation" and less "production" of real economic grown... as Mitten's put it... "bubble"

So much wat(tm)
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