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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#621 - 2012-10-16 07:09:53 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Someone said kill rights being transferable was irrational. So with your definition it is rational and acceptable to happen to people.

No, that's not what the argument is, and not what the thread is about. If you just catch the last half dozen posts before making your own, you will jump to improper conclusions.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#622 - 2012-10-16 07:11:47 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
OP and others just don't like the idea of getting "buried 6 foot under" after they put someone else 6 foot under.

Is this kind of like the claim you've made where I'm "protecting" my own "self-interests", but you can't define which those "self-interests" are? Or the list of suggestions I've made which supposedly forces anyone to move anywhere?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#623 - 2012-10-16 07:12:16 UTC
rodyas wrote:
Someone said kill rights being transferable was irrational.

Who?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#624 - 2012-10-16 07:12:36 UTC
Yeah I see it was just shooting once, then being owned for it.

Seems wierd as well, never heard os someone just shooting once before. He should probably worry about bugs in the game or his router failing then worrying about shooting someone once, then everyone gets to pwn him.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#625 - 2012-10-16 07:16:05 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
But I don't gank? How does it affect me again?

Well, I gank on an alt, but it's -10, so it can be shot by anyone already. The last time I ganked someone in high-sec on a non-dedicated character (this one) was over a year ago, as part of a contract.

Where's my personal bias?

No. Where's the motivation? If you "don't DO it" then why bother?

Shining White or yet another person who DOESN'T do something bitching about it.

htf are any of these posts supposed to get cred/traction if they're made by people who WON'T be affected?


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#626 - 2012-10-16 07:19:03 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
But I don't gank? How does it affect me again?

Well, I gank on an alt, but it's -10, so it can be shot by anyone already. The last time I ganked someone in high-sec on a non-dedicated character (this one) was over a year ago, as part of a contract.

Where's my personal bias?

No. Where's the motivation? If you "don't DO it" then why bother?

Shining White or yet another person who DOESN'T do something bitching about it.

htf are any of these posts supposed to get cred/traction if they're made by people who WON'T be affected?

They affect me as a bounty hunter. I don't want random people interfering when I "activate" the "kill rights." I don't need their help. I don't want their names on the kill mails. I don't want them sharing the ownership of the perp's wreck after I make the kill.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#627 - 2012-10-16 07:24:04 UTC
Bounty Hunter: We want transferrable killrights!
Gank Victim: We want transferrable killrights!
Ganker: No we don't!!
CCP: Here's what we're doing for Retribution.
Ganker: lol, fail.
Bounty Hunter: What? That isn't even close to what we wanted.
People in this thread: OMG GANKER TEARS!!

Who put the goat in there?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#628 - 2012-10-16 07:24:42 UTC
^ As a bounty hunter:

Do you have any qualms about chasing down and killing someone, whose only offense was shooting someone once? Not killing them, just targeting a player, and activated their guns for one cycle only. Or will you try to avoid these bounties, and never buy or activate them?

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#629 - 2012-10-16 07:28:58 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ As a bounty hunter:

Do you have any qualms about chasing down and killing someone, whose only offense was shooting someone once? Not killing them, just targeting a player, and activated their guns for one cycle only. Or will you try to avoid these bounties, and never buy or activate them?

I've been running a mercenary corporation since 2008. I don't care what the reason behind the work is; you pay, I do it. Mercenaries don't have emotions. They don't distinguish right from wrong. They don't ask questions.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#630 - 2012-10-16 07:30:22 UTC
^ Good, Good, there is a guy who uses a logi ship to heal missioners as they come in to dock from a mission.

Perhaps I could use your services to take him out.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#631 - 2012-10-16 07:31:42 UTC
rodyas wrote:
^ As a bounty hunter:

Do you have any qualms about chasing down and killing someone, whose only offense was shooting someone once? Not killing them, just targeting a player, and activated their guns for one cycle only. Or will you try to avoid these bounties, and never buy or activate them?

I guess that's why CCP are making the default setting of EVE one where people can't "accidentally shoot someone once". It's just as ******** as the whole deal with blowing up someone's ship in lowsec incurs no killright, but pointing their pod does.

In short, this whole crimewatch 2.0 thing has major issues with it if you don't look at it from the perspective of trying to reduce hisec aggression as much as possible.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#632 - 2012-10-16 07:36:29 UTC
Please go through the proper channels for that, in the crime and punishment section of the forums. I won't derail my own thread by talking about mercenary work unless it actually pertains to the topic.

To continue that line of thought, bounty hunters are essentially mercenaries. CCP already wrecked the industry with the war revamp, which has the nice effect of completely gutting the war mechanic. Now they want to deliver the final blow by implementing a kill right system that spits in the face of the very nature of bounty hunting. As I said earlier in the thread:

"Bounty-hunters have risk. Bounty-hunters do work for money, not pay money for work. Bounty-hunters don't want random people interfering in their work. Apparently CCP passed right over those concepts and went straight for making it as close to a pve experience as possible."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#633 - 2012-10-16 07:42:03 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
But I don't gank? How does it affect me again?

Well, I gank on an alt, but it's -10, so it can be shot by anyone already. The last time I ganked someone in high-sec on a non-dedicated character (this one) was over a year ago, as part of a contract.

Where's my personal bias?

No. Where's the motivation? If you "don't DO it" then why bother?

Shining White or yet another person who DOESN'T do something bitching about it.

htf are any of these posts supposed to get cred/traction if they're made by people who WON'T be affected?

They affect me as a bounty hunter. I don't want random people interfering when I "activate" the "kill rights." I don't need their help. I don't want their names on the kill mails. I don't want them sharing the ownership of the perp's wreck after I make the kill.

Right. NOW we have the motivation. That's a step forward away from vitriole.

So wouldn't the location where said kill-rights get activated be a "choice" thing? Out the front Jita would be silly ofc, perhaps the term Bounty HUNTER might have a lot to do with it?

The "bad-boy" will run to lowsec (they'll have to unless they're stupid) so your mickey mouse wannabe PvP'er simply won't go there. He's all yours.

And meh, ultimately, the person who sold the rights don't care WHO get's the bounty anyway - if you "picked" a station hugger, well....hmmmm....

And Destiny, truly, given that this whole thing is still up-in-the-air, pretty sure either before, or at the very least after it's deployed it can be tweaked. Panicking before it's even played out is like, premature imho.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#634 - 2012-10-16 07:43:12 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
And Destiny, truly, given that this whole thing is still up-in-the-air, pretty sure either before, or at the very least after it's deployed it can be tweaked. Panicking before it's even played out is like, premature imho.

You must be new here.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#635 - 2012-10-16 07:49:15 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
rodyas wrote:
^ As a bounty hunter:

Do you have any qualms about chasing down and killing someone, whose only offense was shooting someone once? Not killing them, just targeting a player, and activated their guns for one cycle only. Or will you try to avoid these bounties, and never buy or activate them?

I guess that's why CCP are making the default setting of EVE one where people can't "accidentally shoot someone once". It's just as ******** as the whole deal with blowing up someone's ship in lowsec incurs no killright, but pointing their pod does.

In short, this whole crimewatch 2.0 thing has major issues with it if you don't look at it from the perspective of trying to reduce hisec aggression as much as possible.

And what of it?

When a player knowingly deactivates "the switch" he'll know when and he'll know why. For mine, that means he's ready. It removes accidental aggress which may in fact be having an impact on retention of subs. Said same before, every army in the world prefers their soldiers to be at least out of nappies before they hand them a rifle.

Besides, even you'd know, some people play for years and STILL don't understand aggression mechanics. Maybe because they're just not interested. Who would have thought.

These changes may in fact be a catalyst (good choice of word?) to clarifying the mechanics and putting some risk and thought back onto the perpertrators of wanton tom-foolery and helping the "carebears" to get out and "have-a-go" as it were.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#636 - 2012-10-16 07:49:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Touval Lysander wrote:
Right. NOW we have the motivation. That's a step forward away from vitriole.

So wouldn't the location where said kill-rights get activated be a "choice" thing? Out the front Jita would be silly ofc, perhaps the term Bounty HUNTER might have a lot to do with it?

The "bad-boy" will run to lowsec (they'll have to unless they're stupid) so your mickey mouse wannabe PvP'er simply won't go there. He's all yours.

And meh, ultimately, the person who sold the rights don't care WHO get's the bounty anyway - if you "picked" a station hugger, well....hmmmm....

And Destiny, truly, given that this whole thing is still up-in-the-air, pretty sure either before, or at the very least after it's deployed it can be tweaked. Panicking before it's even played out is like, premature imho.

We always had that motivation. I built this entire thread on that motivation. It was simply ignored by the "htfu" people, but at least I finally got you to acknowledge it. It's a start I guess, even after 30 pages. Now, to address your points.

The location isn't something that the bounty hunter chooses. The bounty hunter follows the target, not the other way around.

You make some assumptions about low-sec here, both about the targets running there (they don't), and about it being devoid of pvpers. Gankers who don't use alts to gank usually do so in limited amounts, and then regain sec status in null, where kill rights don't matter. Heck, with the new system, they won't even matter in low-sec, because just killed someone's ship in low-sec will no longer result in applicable GCC penalties.

As far as waiting until deployment to voice concerns, I'm going to tell you the same thing Zim said. No, seriously. If you've been here for any length of time, you should know why that's bad.

Touval Lysander wrote:
Besides, even you'd know, some people play for years and STILL don't understand aggression mechanics. Maybe because they're just not interested. Who would have thought.

These changes may in fact be a catalyst (good choice of word?) to clarifying the mechanics and putting some risk and thought back onto the perpertrators of wanton tom-foolery and helping the "carebears" to get out and "have-a-go" as it were.

Those players who fail to grasp basic game mechanics after years of experience shouldn't be protected. At the very least, the game shouldn't be designed around them.

Also, in all of my years of experience and from countless wars, ganks, ransoms, infiltrations, and even plain old talks with carebears, I've come to the conclusion that they never decide to seek out pvp on their own. In fact, the more safe they get, the more entrenched they become in their mentality. The only ones I've seen turn (or turned myself) are the ones that got killed a few times and either wanted revenge, or their own shot at becoming badasses. But they never, ever, ever choose to switch their playing styles without some kind of catalyst. Giving them extra protection is not a catalyst.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#637 - 2012-10-16 07:51:21 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
And Destiny, truly, given that this whole thing is still up-in-the-air, pretty sure either before, or at the very least after it's deployed it can be tweaked. Panicking before it's even played out is like, premature imho.

You must be new here.

No, unlike you, I have faith in other people's ability. I KNOW I am not always right and I suspect so do CCP.

Good lesson in it for you buddy.

The ONLY time we will NEVER **** up is when we are dead.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#638 - 2012-10-16 07:53:46 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
And what of it?

When a player knowingly deactivates "the switch" he'll know when and he'll know why. For mine, that means he's ready. It removes accidental aggress which may in fact be having an impact on retention of subs. Said same before, every army in the world prefers their soldiers to be at least out of nappies before they hand them a rifle.

Besides, even you'd know, some people play for years and STILL don't understand aggression mechanics. Maybe because they're just not interested. Who would have thought.

These changes may in fact be a catalyst (good choice of word?) to clarifying the mechanics and putting some risk and thought back onto the perpertrators of wanton tom-foolery and helping the "carebears" to get out and "have-a-go" as it were.

So you'll address that post (which wasn't even aimed at you), but you're incapable of defining which "self-interests" you proclaim I'm "protecting", and you can't tell me which suggestions I've made which "forces" anyone to move anywhere?

Okay then.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#639 - 2012-10-16 07:59:01 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
And what of it?

When a player knowingly deactivates "the switch" he'll know when and he'll know why. For mine, that means he's ready. It removes accidental aggress which may in fact be having an impact on retention of subs. Said same before, every army in the world prefers their soldiers to be at least out of nappies before they hand them a rifle.

Besides, even you'd know, some people play for years and STILL don't understand aggression mechanics. Maybe because they're just not interested. Who would have thought.

These changes may in fact be a catalyst (good choice of word?) to clarifying the mechanics and putting some risk and thought back onto the perpertrators of wanton tom-foolery and helping the "carebears" to get out and "have-a-go" as it were.

So you'll address that post (which wasn't even aimed at you), but you're incapable of defining which "self-interests" you proclaim I'm "protecting", and you can't tell me which suggestions I've made which "forces" anyone to move anywhere?

Okay then.

Oh. A stickler for the "that was unjustiied" please apologize post.

Already answered - you choose to ignore. Deal with it.

Better yet post on your HIGHSEC char so I don't confuse you with some lameass nullsec zealot - which if my memory serves me right - is exactly how I said you will be branded while you insist on posting as a Goon.

If you don't understand THAT then best be on your way to "defend the good fight" with moar shitpoasts elsewhere.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#640 - 2012-10-16 08:06:38 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Oh. A stickler for the "that was unjustiied" please apologize post.

Already answered - you choose to ignore. Deal with it.

You have not answered it in any way, shape or form.

Touval Lysander wrote:
Better yet post on your HIGHSEC char so I don't confuse you with some lameass nullsec zealot - which if my memory serves me right - is exactly how I said you will be branded while you insist on posting as a Goon.

If you can't address the contents of a post instead of throwing around ad hominems, then maybe you should leave posting to the big boys who can.

Touval Lysander wrote:
If you don't understand THAT then best be on your way to "defend the good fight" with moar shitpoasts elsewhere.

I'm not shitposting.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat