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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2012-10-14 23:00:51 UTC
Actually, this discussion has made me decide to make a ganker alt just to spite Stoffer and people like you. So try another strawman argument.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#482 - 2012-10-14 23:04:09 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Actually, this discussion has made me decide to make a ganker alt just to spite Stoffer and people like you. So try another strawman argument.

I'm training one now, and I've got another ready to rock.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#483 - 2012-10-14 23:05:29 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
strawman


Shocked

Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread.

brb
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#484 - 2012-10-14 23:11:25 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
strawman


Shocked

Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread.

I see that you are in an NPC corporation. Not sure how I missed this earlier.

I would imagine that your days of war-dec immunity will come to an end eventually.

Then you will know the true nature of risk. Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#485 - 2012-10-14 23:26:13 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
strawman


Shocked

Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread.

I'll let you in on a little secret, since you keep on assuming that people are thinking squarely about themselves and can't possibly be thinking about what would be better overall: I haven't had even the vaguest interest in hisec ganking the last 4 years. When I say that these changes are made squarely to curb hisec ganking and aggression in general, I'm not speaking from my point of view, I'm not crying "bitter ganker tears" or whatever the **** you seem to insist on trying to attribute to me, I'm telling you what will happen in the game as a whole. With these changes, PVP will not flourish as you pretend (or god help you, actually believe) will happen, and unless you're extremely deluded, you will know exactly why this will happen the way I say it will.

You scoff at my supply/demand "argument", but I'm telling you that overall, PVP supply in the form of people who gank or canflip etc will go down because the penalties, with these changes, will make it enough of a cockstab or cost enough over time to do so, that it will quite simply not be worth their time. Thus the supply will be going down, while the demand (i.e. hisec pubbies who have seen these changes and are all "yarr I'll put bounties on them" or "yarr I can't wait to buy/activate killrights!") will go up.

But, since CCP have made it quite clear that they want to eradicate as much hisec aggression as possible without actually disallowing hisec aggression in its entirety, I've decided to do my part to **** in their cheerios. But make no mistake, overall, I will be in the minority, a large portion of people doing hisec PVP currently are most likely going to do what CCP wants, i.e. stop doing things like canflipping or ganking industrials/freighters/etc, and hisec will have taken a giant leap towards hello kitty online.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#486 - 2012-10-14 23:31:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Darth Gustav wrote:
Low-risk means low-value. Do the math.

This argument placing a value on someone by your own perception of their value is just plain wrong. It's not math either.

"Value" to a preferred playstyle in Eve is an intangible.

Value is whatever it is to the valuee, not the valuer.

And yet, in (hypocritical) agreeance, you can still be an ass, but doing so will have value. Would not a higher risk to the ganker/pirate increase their value?

Perhaps the pirate/ganker/whatever will now place some "value" on their decisions and (inevitable) destruction instead of just being a random ass.


Strange that.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#487 - 2012-10-14 23:32:50 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
strawman


Shocked

Yes, we understood the strawman arguments for a while now. That's why so many are having fun with this tears collection thread.

I see that you are in an NPC corporation. Not sure how I missed this earlier.

I would imagine that your days of war-dec immunity will come to an end eventually.

Then you will know the true nature of risk. Roll


Yes, having 800sp old alts is always useful, you know a lot about it right?

Yes it's an alt

Yes he's low sp

Yes go kill it

Yes finally my alt will bring me some isk Lol

And yes, you seem mad Lol

brb
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#488 - 2012-10-14 23:36:52 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
[... I'm telling you what will happen in the game as a whole.



Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient.

Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also)
Will you be able to come back and do the same?

brb
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#489 - 2012-10-14 23:49:54 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient.

I'm neither, but it doesn't exactly take a genius to see what'll happen when the consequences for "stepping out of line" are increased as much as they are going to be.

Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also)
Will you be able to come back and do the same?

I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#490 - 2012-10-14 23:54:44 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".

To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say.

I dream of being as smart as you.


"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#491 - 2012-10-15 00:17:15 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".

To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say.

I dream of being as smart as you.




Ladies and gentlemen, our resident expert's opinion on the matter.
Asuri Kinnes
Perkone
Caldari State
#492 - 2012-10-15 01:36:04 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Just stop reading here because you're either a CCP employee with information and data we're not aware of or you're omniscient.

Creating more opportunities, witch CCP just did with these changes, is completely opposed to your statements. I will be back on this thread in a couple months and man up to say I was wrong if this ever happens (less pvp as you pretend and high sec more safer as you pretend also)
Will you be able to come back and do the same?

Carebears / hi-sec'ers don't attack when we're -10 flying in space now, what makes you think they are going to attack in the future? I am tempted to come back to the game just to see how bad this does become.

Bob is the god of Wormholes.

That's all you need to know.
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#493 - 2012-10-15 01:55:33 UTC
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Carebears / hi-sec'ers don't attack when we're -10 flying in space now, what makes you think they are going to attack in the future? I am tempted to come back to the game just to see how bad this does become.
Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now.
Those who have been waiting the last 9 years for bounty-hunting to become a viable profession are looking at these changes wondering why they even bothered.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#494 - 2012-10-15 02:03:28 UTC
captain foivos wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:

I'll have absolutely no problems coming back to this thread in 6 months' time and say "I told you so". There's absolutely no danger of me having to say "welp, I was wrong".

To be soooo right, sooooo often without any doubt about anything you ever say.

I dream of being as smart as you.




Ladies and gentlemen, our resident expert's opinion on the matter.

Yes indeed. I am conceding that I am not as wise or as smart as you guys.

Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys and Eve will be "fixed".

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
captain foivos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#495 - 2012-10-15 02:13:27 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys and Eve will be "fixed".


In all seriousness, that would be a godsend.
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#496 - 2012-10-15 02:15:03 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys
Incarna...

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#497 - 2012-10-15 02:30:10 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Now all we need is for the entire CCP team to realise they're not as smart as you guys
Incarna...

Yeah, I think that's not gonna happen.

Instead all that happens is people are "caught" "exploiting".

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#498 - 2012-10-15 03:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Grumpymunky wrote:
Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now.

That's just not going to happen. The average member of the average highsec corporation won't engage anything unless he has 3-1 numerical superiority and the target is in a ship 2 hull sizes smaller than him. Just today I had a mixed battleship/BC fleet run away from our 4 assault frigates and a battlecruiser. That's the kind of thing we're dealing with here.

The only people in highsec who will go out and seek PVP are already doing it right now. This bounty system won't do anything to increase the quantity of PVP occurring in highsec and in fact it adds a significant disincentive to suicide ganking and lowsec PVP for casual players.

How many people who live in highsec but casually do lowsec roams are going to be discouraged from that by the possibility of someone randomly activating a killright on them without warning as they land on the perimeter gate in jita? I'm going to say plenty.

You're certainly right about people who actually want to be bounty hunters being disappointed, it's probably the least useful an iteration that any mechanic has ever seen.
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#499 - 2012-10-15 03:26:13 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now.

That's just not going to happen. The average member of the average highsec corporation won't engage anything unless he has 3-1 numerical superiority and the target is in a ship 2 hull sizes smaller than him. Just today I had a mixed battleship/BC fleet run away from our 4 assault frigates and a battlecruiser. That's the kind of thing we're dealing with here.

The only people in highsec who will go out and seek PVP are already doing it right now. This bounty system won't do anything to increase the quantity of PVP occurring in highsec and in fact it adds a significant disincentive to suicide ganking and lowsec PVP for casual players.

How many people who live in highsec but casually do lowsec roams are going to be discouraged from that by the possibility of someone randomly activating a killright on them without warning as they land on the perimeter gate in jita? I'm going to say plenty.

You're certainly right about people who actually want to be bounty hunters being disappointed, it's probably the least useful an iteration that any mechanic has ever seen.

I don't mean this to be offensive or to be a personal attack. I don't always agree with you, but this post here, this is gold.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
#500 - 2012-10-15 03:42:31 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Asuri Kinnes wrote:
Carebears / hi-sec'ers don't attack when we're -10 flying in space now, what makes you think they are going to attack in the future? I am tempted to come back to the game just to see how bad this does become.
Those who have never lifted a finger against the evildoers of highsec will not change, but will expect a sudden influx of bounty-hunting heroes to do it for them now.
Those who have been waiting the last 9 years for bounty-hunting to become a viable profession are looking at these changes wondering why they even bothered.



Brief and precise summaries don't get much better then this.

Being one of the fools who stupidly expected a system that resembles actual bounty hunting under a license (kill rights) I just look at CCP's proposal and sigh. I fixed my sec for this? Sigh...

I personally have zero interest herpa derping after global suspects or paying for kill rights which allow everyone to act. Another area of eve I can add to, errr, return to the "don't bother basket".