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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Thorn Galen
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#241 - 2012-10-12 13:58:27 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
Saede Riordan wrote:
Go suspect in the starter system. Collect lulz?



Yeah thats going to retain new players.


Yeah that thought crossed my mind too.

I'm wondering what's being done to make new players aware of the new Bounty system. I can just see some events now :-
PVPDUDE - "I am going to deposit 1 Million ISK into your wallet, I need to test my Armor and I need you to take 1 shot at me please" (Deposits 1 Million ISK into NEWB's wallet)

NEWB - "1 Million ISK, ok cool"

You know what happens next.

COO - Bene Gesserit Chapterhouse  CEO - Sanctuary Pact Alliance
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#242 - 2012-10-12 13:59:13 UTC
If I were one of you guys complaining about this. I'd suggest in the devblog comments thread, that buying a kill right should be a one time only, like it currently is. Having it go for the whole 30 days, no matter how many times people have tried it before, is a bit over the top.

I like the idea of trying to get myself shot at, so I could use that kill right against the person who attacked me. But I think it's strange that it will be like that for 30 days after. It doesn't really seem fair.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#243 - 2012-10-12 14:04:59 UTC
non judgement wrote:
If I were one of you guys complaining about this. I'd suggest in the devblog comments thread

You think CCP are going to make a change like this, now? I mean, every time there's been requests for transferable killrights, it's been permanent and from one guy to another. And when they manage to go from that, to "15 minutes activatable killright" and "every time the killright is activated, everyone can kill him", you actually, seriously, unironically think CCP are going to go "you know what, that's a good idea, let's do it your way"?

You must be new to CCP.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
non judgement
Without Fear
Flying Burning Ships Alliance
#244 - 2012-10-12 14:08:59 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
non judgement wrote:
If I were one of you guys complaining about this. I'd suggest in the devblog comments thread

You think CCP are going to make a change like this, now? I mean, every time there's been requests for transferable killrights, it's been permanent and from one guy to another. And when they manage to go from that, to "15 minutes activatable killright" and "every time the killright is activated, everyone can kill him", you actually, seriously, unironically think CCP are going to go "you know what, that's a good idea, let's do it your way"?

You must be new to CCP.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Looks like you'll have to get heaps of people to shoot at that statue in Jita again. It's the only way.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#245 - 2012-10-12 14:10:18 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Roime wrote:
That should be changed. Sec status hit is fine, but you really shouldn't gain kill rights in lowsec if you are not killed ffs.

Other than that, system looks really good and creates interesting new gameplay.

Two things should be changed.

1) f.ex pointing a pod shouldn't automatically give someone killrights on you, you should only generate killrights if you actually kill someone.
2) whomever activates a killright should be the only one able to kill someone, legally. Or maybe let whole corps buy the rights. vOv

The rest, I think, are fine.


I'm not sure if the global Suspect flag is such a big issue tbh. As a bounty hunter you just need to be careful where and when you activate the kill right. I'd guess public kill rights are not going to be very popular because of the ease of using alts to remove it.

Anyway, this is huge change and we'll have to wait and see what emerges from it.

.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#246 - 2012-10-12 14:22:46 UTC
cruising in my maller - sitting at a gate
someone bought my kill rights - and he sealed his fate
thinks his drake will do the trick - did not see the bait
happily aggresses - now it is too late

nanananana nananananaaaa

I am going to sell my own freaking kill rights! is that possible?

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Staleward Ad'mraa
F-I-N-K PROPERTY
#247 - 2012-10-12 14:41:46 UTC
Players can place as much bounty as they want on other players, let it be 100 million to 500 billion. CCP has made it so the players can't collect the bounty all at once. How much chunk of the bounty depends on the cost of the ship you just destroyed. Like the person is flying a 2 billion isk ship, you destroy that ship, you get 2 billion out of 500 billion bounty. This allows for multiple people to collect off the same bounty that has been placed on that person till it is depleted. If you pod someone, the game adds up the cost of implants the player had and pays you that in bounty. Don't try getting rid of your bounty in one pod, because you would have to have a ship that is the same amount as the bounty.

This is how the new bounty system works, only concern is that players can abuse the bounty system to grief others with large amounts of isk.

As for the Flagging, this was to be suspected. Players who attack others in high-sec will be flagged, allowing for other players to act like concord to exact some justice. Like all systems that came before this one, players will find a way to abuse it. All CCP needs to do is tweak it to compensate for the short-comings that was missed. But seriously, you can't really judge a system before it comes out, it is like counting your chickens before they hatch.
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#248 - 2012-10-12 15:03:19 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
I wonder what will happen the first time a griefer corp warps 15 pilots to the Jita undock and has all of them go suspect at once.

Disco! Disco!

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#249 - 2012-10-12 15:03:47 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
And before you say the miner should train up the skills and do it himself...no...nobody should be forced into a style of combat just because someone else plays that way.


Nobody should be forced to train up tank skills either, it seems. Big smile
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#250 - 2012-10-12 15:16:19 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
((Snip...))
This will probably lead to a reduction of crimes in general, which equals a reduction of realism of the sandbox.
That, or simply way more people using worthless alts to have fun, knowing that they'll just have to park them
in station for 30 days, once ***** starts to get too bad for them to do anything.
((Snip...))

So strolling around regulated territory blowing people's stuff up with few consequences is realistic?

It seems to me that this will be the first time that regulated space actually seems like regulated space, without the Deus Ex Machina of your guns not activating. It means that blowing people up "all day long" will now have consequences in regulated space, and that those consequences are up to the players, not Concord. This is a good thing.

As one of the posters in this thread mentioned, there's vast new potential for baiting here. The difference being that if you take the bait in accordance with the rules, you really really deserve to be handed your hat.

This really will turn high-sec into null, briefly, for the @-hat that desires it. When you come to regulated space, if you want to act like you're in null, fine, null you get.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#251 - 2012-10-12 15:24:47 UTC
Ila Dace wrote:


This really will turn high-sec into null, briefly, for the @-hat that desires it. When you come to regulated space, if you want to act like you're in null, fine, null you get.


Actually, with a lack of bubbles/empty wasteland with massive camps at the borders it'll be more like lowsec without gate guns or like being an outlaw.
Ila Dace
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#252 - 2012-10-12 15:31:17 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:
Ila Dace wrote:


This really will turn high-sec into null, briefly, for the @-hat that desires it. When you come to regulated space, if you want to act like you're in null, fine, null you get.


Actually, with a lack of bubbles/empty wasteland with massive camps at the borders it'll be more like lowsec without gate guns or like being an outlaw.

True. And I think that will probably be more fun with a lot more people around.

If House played Eve: http://i.imgur.com/y7ShT.jpg

But in purple, I'm stunning!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#253 - 2012-10-12 15:44:06 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

edit: Arguing with ISDs is pointless. They are literally hired to act as CCP heralds. We can get a full-fledged pvp flag tomorrow, and they'll go off about how they have so many more pvp opportunities.


If you want a debate then be civil, my position in ISD is entirely unrelated to my opinion as a 2003 player.


Then perhaps you should behave like a professional and stop posting with an ISD character. Oh wait I forgot you guys aren't professionals.

There is nothing unprofessional about voicing your honest opinion, especially when it is a strongly supported opinion.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#254 - 2012-10-12 15:54:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Roime wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

Are you sure about this? I'd assume he'd get aggression, but not necessarily kill rights, since he hasn't actually killed the guy, just momentarily detained him.

Front-loaded. He aggressed him.

I was going to say that I didn't see how that would incur killrights, but then I saw the appropriate paragraph (which I'd somehow missed previously). You're right.

Edit for lazy people: Pointing a pod incurs the criminal flag, which is what triggers the killright.


That should be changed. Sec status hit is fine, but you really shouldn't gain kill rights in lowsec if you are not killed ffs.

Other than that, system looks really good and creates interesting new gameplay.


Think about it though.

You are in low sec and point someones ship... you then proceed to demand a ransom.

At this point you have no kill right on you.

The victim either pays the ransom, fights back, or ejects from his ship.

If he pays you win. If he does not pay you blow up and loot his ship without a kill right on your head.

If he fights back and you kill him and loot his ship you win. If he kills you, you lose and learn to choose your victim more wisely.

If he ejects (which he can do if he has not aggressed you) you can avoid the kill right by letting his pod go and simply claim his entire abandoned ship. Or you can opt to ransom the pod (if you can catch it) and accept the fact he has a kill right on you. If you live in low sec anyway that's not really a big issue.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#255 - 2012-10-12 16:12:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Lord Zim wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Zim...there is nothing wrong with selling kill rights to someone else. I don't understand what your aversion to this is.

Of course you don't understand what my aversion to this is, BECAUSE IT ISN'T WHAT MY AVERSION TO THIS IS.

Am I not writing in plain english? Is my font illegible? Why are you not fathoming the fact that I've no issue with the selling of killrights, but the manner in which they're sold, and more importantly what happens when they're activated?

Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
And before you say the miner should train up the skills and do it himself...no...nobody should be forced into a style of combat just because someone else plays that way.

You're going to stop posting until you read, and actually understand, what it is my opinion is on the subject, instead of making huge assumptions on what my opinion is, and write whole posts on the subject with basis in that assumption.


It offers loop holes, as in people that give away their kill rights for free give you a get out of jail free card by blowing youself up in a rookie ship. This is a good thing.

If offers new criminal professions, as in kill right baiting by getting the kill rights on yourself with an alt and selling them, while your main is in a ship virtually guaranteed to survive.

It offers a career for bounty hunters who know how to deal with kill mail baiters.

It forces a ganker to look over their shoulder, and make sure their methodology takes into account they could be a target to everyone at any time (which most already are under the current system if they have plied their trade very long). Ganking alts are already usually special purpose characters that are rarely vulnerable to the general public due to their -5 sec status because they only undock/swap ships long enough to perform another gank.

It provides at least some compensation for a victim if they are halfway intelligent about selling the kill right... and provides a level of danger for attacking the helpless but wealthy industrialist. IE: If you go after a Trump of the EVE universe, you don't worry about him coming back and kicking your butt... you worry about the people he pays/enables to kick your butt for him. Basically your face is put on America's Most Wanted, the fact that you are a wanted criminal and their will be no repercussions for going after you is widely publicized.

To sum up, if you are looking for ganks you will need to devote a character to it which is only used for that purpose, or lay low for 30 days if you want to change careers with that alt.

If you are looking for combat, you have been given an extremely interesting mechanic to achieve that.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Jallukola
#256 - 2012-10-12 16:13:48 UTC
So, can I like set up the bounty and kill rights on myself, and then create a permission-buyout price of hundreds and hundreds of billions of ISKies, so that nobody even wants to shoot me, in fears of I having all the munnies regardless of the case?

All posts and mails screencapped and time stamped, including out of EVE, you will not reverse on me.

Might come in handy!
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#257 - 2012-10-12 16:20:53 UTC
Jallukola wrote:
So, can I like set up the bounty and kill rights on myself, and then create a permission-buyout price of hundreds and hundreds of billions of ISKies, so that nobody even wants to shoot me, in fears of I having all the munnies regardless of the case?

If you put a huge bounty on your own head, you have shot yourself in the foot.
If you get a kill right on yourself and put a high price on selling it you need to remember that there can be more than one kill right available on your head... although you can hope that someone chooses your more expensive one in haste.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Shederov Blood
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
#258 - 2012-10-12 16:46:27 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Jallukola wrote:
So, can I like set up the bounty and kill rights on myself, and then create a permission-buyout price of hundreds and hundreds of billions of ISKies, so that nobody even wants to shoot me, in fears of I having all the munnies regardless of the case?

If you put a huge bounty on your own head, you have shot yourself in the foot.
If you get a kill right on yourself and put a high price on selling it you need to remember that there can be more than one kill right available on your head... although you can hope that someone chooses your more expensive one in haste.
They already thought of that.
CCP Tallest wrote:
2.a) If multiple kill rights for the same person are for sale, the cheapest one is sold (activated) first and other kill rights cannot be activated while he has the suspect flag active.

Who put the goat in there?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2012-10-12 16:47:33 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
It offers loop holes, as in people that give away their kill rights for free give you a get out of jail free card by blowing youself up in a rookie ship. This is a good thing.

It is not a good thing, since it allows for an easy way out and it makes the profession of being a professional bountyhunter more or less useless.

Ranger 1 wrote:
It forces a ganker to look over their shoulder

How is it supposed to do this, when they can just nullify the killright without any major cost to themselves?

Ranger 1 wrote:
To sum up, if you are looking for ganks you will need to devote a character to it which is only used for that purpose, or lay low for 30 days if you want to change careers with that alt.

Or just kill yourself with your own alt. vOv

Ranger 1 wrote:
If you are looking for combat, you have been given an extremely interesting mechanic to achieve that.

Since it's easily circumventable, nope.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2012-10-12 17:23:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Ila Dace wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:
Ila Dace wrote:


This really will turn high-sec into null, briefly, for the @-hat that desires it. When you come to regulated space, if you want to act like you're in null, fine, null you get.


Actually, with a lack of bubbles/empty wasteland with massive camps at the borders it'll be more like lowsec without gate guns or like being an outlaw.

True. And I think that will probably be more fun with a lot more people around.

I have thought deeper about all of this and came to a conclusion.

First of all, it's *almost* like being an outlaw, except for the faction police ... which makes it even easier.
Unlike you, i can talk from experience ... and accept my apology if you actually *are* a resident outlaw of some
highsec system, because then i will gladly pay you a visit and we can have fun together.

Now, the problems i have with the changes are simply that people aren't like me and don't actually want to play
the way i do. -10 in highsec, in space, all day, doing whatever he wants and avoiding the faction police.
It's so close to being a suspect, i can use my experience with others to make conclusions.

As you "think it will probably be more fun" i can tell you that it *is* a tons of fun being FFA and those few who
have joined me to take a sneak peak into this, they acknowledged it as being "the most fun they ever had".

Now, why aren't there more like me ? First, because 90% of people have no actual clue about the game
mechanics involved around being an outlaw in highsec. The question "don't you get shot at sight by CONCORD"
came up so often, i started to hate it. So most people don't even *know* what's possible or not.

Second, in respect to those who actually know better, it's a lot of effort. Flying "safe" around dozens of potential
targets/enemies (gotta love highsec!) isn't something many can actually pull off ... not even counting the faction police,
which isn't an issue for suspects anyway.

I'm moving aside of my topic a bit by saying that many would never go outlaw in highsec, simply because they can't
grind missions anymore and don't know any better ... but that's really besides the point and nobody who's in danger
of becoming a killright-suspect actually *has* to stop missioning, unless he really believes people will scan him and
find him ... and then he still could run away ... but back on topic ...

Now what the **** am i actually talking about ?

The reason why i believe it will lower criminal activity is simply the (from todays POV) fact that people don't want to
be FFA. Not only that, NOOBS especially won't want to be FFA, which will discourage a lot of them to start their career
differently than doing missions or mining. (counting out trading now) Noobs who seek out cans/wrecks to steal them
will get removed completely, unless there comes a new breed of people who have actual balls, not being scared
in a video game.

Actually, i *could* blame myself for these changes, because they are what i actually wished for.
A nerf of the cowards. Not completely how i anticipated it, but in another way more than i've imagined.
CCP is pushing criminal activity more towards the hardcore players (like me ... no alt, -10, highsec)
and come to think about it ... that's a good thing for reasons i will not dig into.

And that's the end and my final post to this topic, because i have said all i have to say about this.
The solution to the whole misery is so obvious, it hit my face today and i will try to enforce it to
end this once and for all, one way or another.

Anybody who's actively interested in HELPING ...
... in making all of this the fun the people AND CCP have wished for ...
... instead of just wasting his time with WORDS ... may feel free to contact me and we'll have a talk.

Please note that, if you lack the balls like most people, there's no need to waste your time
contacting me and you can feel free to keep using words in an out-of-game-forum, which will reach exactly NOTHING.


Thank you for your attention ... fly safe.