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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#181 - 2012-10-12 08:27:48 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Rats wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Those are the costs of doing business, you chose to be in that particular line of business and costs just went up.

So losing your ship once is cost of doing business, but losing it twice is consequence? What would the third time be called?

Just awesome Lol

Tal

Actually, what the second time should be called is "CCP taking yet another step towards kitty online", and I'm sure CCP'll take yet another step if (when) hisec pubbies keep on whining because they're still getting ganked.

Because heaven forbid people should die in hisec.

As I've indicated we can collect bounties in quadruplicate just by being the real bad guys the high-sec crowd think we are. We can also burn our kill rights at the same time. And it's covered by the bounties.

The more I look at this the more I think it might be open season on high-sec after all.

To profit from killing a Mack all you've got to do is be the one who's ballsy enough to take the shot apparently, because it looks like there's going to be some serious bank in it for those who do.

Bounty up!

On the flip side, if people catch on to how pointless the bounty options all are because we just get richer and potentially evade killrights for free as a result of the pathetic attempt to grief us by proxy, all the development that has gone into this will be about as valid as...well...pick anything that was worthless.

It's actually kind of a catch-22. Bummer, huh?

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Jim Hazard
Fury Industry
#182 - 2012-10-12 09:12:21 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I wonder what will happen the first time a griefer corp warps 15 pilots to the Jita undock and has all of them go suspect at once.


Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.



Stopped reading there. You really have no clue do you?
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#183 - 2012-10-12 09:17:29 UTC
Jim Hazard wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
I wonder what will happen the first time a griefer corp warps 15 pilots to the Jita undock and has all of them go suspect at once.


Let me see if I understand the new system properly.
A griefer corp has say, 10 combat ships with maybe 100 logi's, 10 assigned to each combat ship.



Stopped reading there. You really have no clue do you?

OK guys we need 100 logi or this fleet is standing down. X up in fleet if you're logi!

x
X
x
XXX
x

OK that's 7 logi. Guys we need 93 logi or we're standing down. 93 logi. If you can fly logi, get in logi.

Guys...

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
pussnheels
Viziam
#184 - 2012-10-12 09:18:09 UTC
Andski wrote:
I mean let's face it, CCP's vision of hisec is that of a risk-free pseudo-themepark where things like 'thought' are optional. All PvP is restricted to wardecs (which are heavily nerfed), risk-free suspect hunting and RvB. By "hisec should be fairly safe" that means that you should be perfectly safe autopiloting your freighter with 50b of loot or your officer-fit Nightmare through Jita.

They believe that by restricting PvP even more, subscriptions will magically skyrocket and EVE will enter a golden age. We'll see about that (it won't)


atleast it is better than the goons versions of how EvE should be

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#185 - 2012-10-12 09:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
pussnheels wrote:
Andski wrote:
I mean let's face it, CCP's vision of hisec is that of a risk-free pseudo-themepark where things like 'thought' are optional. All PvP is restricted to wardecs (which are heavily nerfed), risk-free suspect hunting and RvB. By "hisec should be fairly safe" that means that you should be perfectly safe autopiloting your freighter with 50b of loot or your officer-fit Nightmare through Jita.

They believe that by restricting PvP even more, subscriptions will magically skyrocket and EVE will enter a golden age. We'll see about that (it won't)


atleast it is better than the goons versions of how EvE should be

Better is relative.

If by better you mean relatively worthless due to the devaluation effect of removing risk, then yes.

But if by better you mean the word in a denotative sense, then not so much.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#186 - 2012-10-12 09:23:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
"If you don't agree with making hisec safer, then you're just a carebear!"


The point is just: this change will make high-sec LESS safe. And, yes, less safe for players focused on "criminal" activity. This is what this whine-thread is about: you folks want to pose as bad guy but with the safety granted by high-sec game mechanics, wannabe pirates but with mom-concord protecting from any consequence and any risk to loose your shiny ship in some non-consesnual PvP retaliation.

This change to not add mechanics to prevent PvP or aggression, do not limit technically what is already done to trigger PvP in high-sec, on the countrary it adds more chance and options for PvP engagments. But you don't like this, you want to kill mining barges and rockies ships without any risk to loose your combat ship.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#187 - 2012-10-12 09:38:10 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
"If you don't agree with making hisec safer, then you're just a carebear!"


The point is just: this change will make high-sec LESS safe. And, yes, less safe for players focused on "criminal" activity. This is what this whine-thread is about: you folks want to pose as bad guy but with the safety granted by high-sec game mechanics, wannabe pirates but with mom-concord protecting from any consequence and any risk to loose your shiny ship in some non-consesnual PvP retaliation.

This change to not add mechanics to prevent PvP or aggression, do not limit technically what is already done to trigger PvP in high-sec, on the countrary it adds more chance and options for PvP engagments. But you don't like this, you want to kill mining barges and rockies ships without any risk to loose your combat ship.

Most suicide-ganking is done by alts today, and after the expansion, all suicide-ganking will be done by alts. Pirates who pod people in low-sec are fair game anyway, so their status will see no change.

The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.

Do you really think I will suicide-gank someone one day, and then undock a faction-fit Vindicator to "have some of them fun-funz peeveepees" with everyone in Jita the next? No, it simply won't work like that. You might think it's honorable for a pvper to go around seeking 1vs200 engagements, but we think it's stupid.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#188 - 2012-10-12 09:40:55 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
"If you don't agree with making hisec safer, then you're just a carebear!"


The point is just: this change will make high-sec LESS safe. And, yes, less safe for players focused on "criminal" activity. This is what this whine-thread is about: you folks want to pose as bad guy but with the safety granted by high-sec game mechanics, wannabe pirates but with mom-concord protecting from any consequence and any risk to loose your shiny ship in some non-consesnual PvP retaliation.

This change to not add mechanics to prevent PvP or aggression, do not limit technically what is already done to trigger PvP in high-sec, on the countrary it adds more chance and options for PvP engagments. But you don't like this, you want to kill mining barges and rockies ships without any risk to loose your combat ship.

Most suicide-ganking is done by alts today, and after the expansion, all suicide-ganking will be done by alts. Pirates who pod people in low-sec are fair game anyway, so their status will see no change.

The only people who will have "more chance and options for PvP engagments" after these changes will be the newbies who accidentally cycle their guns on someone because they don't know any better.

Do you really think I will suicide-gank someone one day, and then undock a faction-fit Vindicator to "have some of them fun-funz peeveepees" with everyone in Jita the next? No, it simply won't work like that. You might think it's honorable for a pvper to go around seeking 1vs200 engagements, but we think it's stupid.


Sorry Destiny, but you got this one wrong. Pirates in low-sec who point pods and collect ransoms, letting them go, front-load kill rights for aggressing the pod in the new system. A kill is unnecessary due to front-loading.

Therefore people who don't pod pilots in low-sec will also be fair game. Which is broken.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#189 - 2012-10-12 09:43:41 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Sorry Destiny, but you got this one wrong. Pirates in low-sec who point pods and collect ransoms, letting them go, front-load kill rights for aggressing the pod in the new system. A kill is unnecessary due to front-loading.

Therefore people who don't pod pilots in low-sec will also be fair game. Which is broken.

Looks like we're finding new holes in CCP's bullshit logic every minute.

But hey, at least we're getting rid of those pesky, subscription numbers-decreasing ransomers!

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#190 - 2012-10-12 09:43:48 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment.

First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is:

CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs?

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies).

So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic."

That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts.



Simmer down, buttercup. You seem to have forgotten that when the crimewatch changes go live, no one will be able to unknowngly transgress in this way.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#191 - 2012-10-12 09:46:09 UTC
pussnheels wrote:
atleast it is better than the goons versions of how EvE should be

Nope.

Sura Sadiva wrote:
The point is just: this change will make high-sec LESS safe.

I bet you'd try to say that the mining barge changes made hisec less safe, too.

Sura Sadiva wrote:
This change to not add mechanics to prevent PvP or aggression, do not limit technically what is already done to trigger PvP in high-sec, on the countrary it adds more chance and options for PvP engagments.

It completely obliterates the idea of being "a bountyhunter", and puts this in the hands of everyone. And, given the fact that every time the killrights are triggered in this fashion, everyone can kill him, the guy which has the killright on him has absolutely no incentive to not get rid of it as soon as possible.

Sura Sadiva wrote:
But you don't like this, you want to kill mining barges and rockies ships without any risk to loose your combat ship.

This is literally the most ******** summation I've seen in a long time. I guess it's time for an all-caps game mechanics announcement:

HI! WHEN WE SUICIDE GANK A MINING BARGE/INDUSTRIAL/FREIGHTER/WHATEVER, WE LOSE THE SHIP.

This concludes the all-caps game mechanics announcement.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#192 - 2012-10-12 09:46:46 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment.

First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is:

CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs?

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies).

So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic."

That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts.



Simmer down, buttercup. You seem to have forgotten that when the crimewatch changes go live, no one will be able to unknowngly transgress in this way.

No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

And if they're transferred I can be killed by surprise in high-sec at any time by everybody on-grid when it goes down, for up to 30 days.

For honoring a ransom.

That's broke dude.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#193 - 2012-10-12 09:48:00 UTC
I can't wait for Retribution to have a "bug" where CONCORD responds instantly throughout hisec, regardless of truesec, and for CCP to say "oh yeah we're aware of the problem and we're fixing it" (it never gets fixed)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#194 - 2012-10-12 09:48:30 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

Are you sure about this? I'd assume he'd get aggression, but not necessarily kill rights, since he hasn't actually killed the guy, just momentarily detained him.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#195 - 2012-10-12 09:49:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Lord Zim wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

Are you sure about this? I'd assume he'd get aggression, but not necessarily kill rights, since he hasn't actually killed the guy, just momentarily detained him.

Front-loaded. He aggressed him.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
#196 - 2012-10-12 09:52:09 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment.

First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is:

CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs?

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies).

So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic."

That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts.



Simmer down, buttercup. You seem to have forgotten that when the crimewatch changes go live, no one will be able to unknowngly transgress in this way.

No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

And if they're transferred I can be killed by surprise in high-sec at any time by everybody on-grid when it goes down, for up to 30 days.

For honoring a ransom.

That's broke dude.



Its great Big smile and its not a surprise as you pirated, to long has there been no come back in hi sec, well now there is woot. The only lee way I personally would give is that 30 days is to long, but any length of penalty it should be tied to time in space not docked as ppl could wait it out.




Tal


Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#197 - 2012-10-12 09:55:05 UTC
Talon SilverHawk wrote:



Its great Big smile and its not a surprise as you pirated, to long has there been no come back in hi sec, well now there is woot. The only lee way I personally would give is that 30 days is to long, but any length of penalty it should be tied to time in space not docked as ppl could wait it out.




Tal



Except it isn't. I'll always collect my own bounties, as will any decent pilot with a decent alt. And collect my own kill rights, too, thank you very much.

That catch-22 isn't great, it's terrible.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#198 - 2012-10-12 09:55:49 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment.

First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is:

CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs?

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies).

So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic."

That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts.



Simmer down, buttercup. You seem to have forgotten that when the crimewatch changes go live, no one will be able to unknowngly transgress in this way.

No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

And if they're transferred I can be killed by surprise in high-sec at any time by everybody on-grid when it goes down, for up to 30 days.

For honoring a ransom.

That's broke dude.


Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?

Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.


You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2012-10-12 09:57:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Darth Gustav wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
No Malcanis, but if I ransom a pod in low-sec, they pay, and I let them go I get a penalty as though I killed the pod.

He gets kill rights.

Are you sure about this? I'd assume he'd get aggression, but not necessarily kill rights, since he hasn't actually killed the guy, just momentarily detained him.

Front-loaded. He aggressed him.

I was going to say that I didn't see how that would incur killrights, but then I saw the appropriate paragraph (which I'd somehow missed previously). You're right.

Edit for lazy people: Pointing a pod incurs the criminal flag, which is what triggers the killright.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#200 - 2012-10-12 09:59:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Malcanis wrote:
Yeah, so? You've committed a crime of aggression and deprived the victim of wealth. Now he's allowed to shoot you back. So what? Why am I supposed to be upset about this? Because it's different from how it used to be?

Come to that, if you're ransoming a pod, you've almost certainly just killed his ship anyway.


You like PvP don't you? What's your problem with people coming back to take revenge on you?

I've been told a million times by people in high-sec to go to low-sec to PVP - they don't want it.

You tell me if you find this to be...ironic...or not. Players who want no part in PVP but to see it banished to low/null, suddenly become its keepers of honour TM in high-sec for actions taking place in low-sec.

Makes no difference though. I'm a decent pilot and I'll collect my own bounties, no doubt. And my own kill rights, too, when they're up for sale. Blink

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom