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Getting Rid of the Undesirables (for good this time)

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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#1 - 2012-10-11 20:12:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Edit: I have made a concise post in the dev blog thread that presents my argument in detail. Please read it to fully understand what this thread is about. It is not a whine thread, but I am definitely complaining about the value of the proposed changes.

So, I was reading the dev blog, and I thought to myself: "wow, CCP is really intent on getting this bounty thing right." And then I got to the terribly-misapplied Princess Bride quote. My heart sank so low that I'm sure people will wonder what the red liquid is when they use the basement garage below my apartment.

First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs. This means that even the day-old noobie who accidentally attacks a player thinking he's a training NPC or whatever is going to be fair game. But this in itself isn't the real problem, and could be lived with. No, the real gem is:

CCP SoniClover wrote:
This is changing from previous functionality. If you have a kill right against someone, you can activate that kill right to make your target a suspect (i.e. give him a Suspect Flag, as explained in the crimewatch blog). This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally.

So, CCP, is this your idea of "bounty hunting" and "consequences?" Instead of a player being able to simply pass off the kill right to a more...confrontational...individual, we're just making a toggle that makes the perp fair game, anytime, anywhere, with no warning. I guess if bounty hunters go after their targets, and the targets turn out to be a bit more than they can handle, they invite random passerby on the action. I get this mental image of Boba Fett, after being knocked on his ass by a local hardman, yelling "well what you all standing 'round for, can't you see this guy means business?" while wiping the blood from under his helmet. The Cantina Band springs to action immediately, and the lovable munchkins clobber the perp with their adorable musical instruments. Then, they all have some cocoa and take a nap. Oookay. There must be an explanation for this. Maybe it's in the next couple of paragraphs?

CCP SoniClover wrote:
Kill rights are bought “on the spot” in space, i.e. if you select a player in space and that player has a kill right on him for sale, you can buy & activate (one action) it right then and there. This immediately puts a Suspect Flag on the target, thus allowing you and others in your vicinity to attack the target. If the target player is killed while under a Suspect flag, then the kill right is ‘spent’. If the target manages to escape and the Suspect flag timer (15 minutes) lapses, the kill right is still available to be purchased (activated) later on.

I'm speechless. I really don't know what to say.

Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag. That is, it will result in a month-long prison sentence. Leave the prison, and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready. Not even a break between collection attempts. They can't even exhaust a finite amount of attempts on the target. All they have to do is accept the kill right, and possibly pay a fee (and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies).

So, there you have it. CCP is finally getting rid of the undesirables. There's no other explanation for it. It's impossible to justify this new set of rules as anything other than "we no longer consider suicide-ganking, or for that matter any type of unwanted aggression, an acceptable gameplay mechanic."

That, or CCP really really wants people to roll more disposable Thrasher alts.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2012-10-11 20:14:28 UTC
These are ~new game enhancements~ don't you know?

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2012-10-11 20:17:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
I mean let's face it, CCP's vision of hisec is that of a risk-free pseudo-themepark where things like 'thought' are optional. All PvP is restricted to wardecs (which are heavily nerfed), risk-free suspect hunting and RvB. By "hisec should be fairly safe" that means that you should be perfectly safe autopiloting your freighter with 50b of loot or your officer-fit Nightmare through Jita.

They believe that by restricting PvP even more, subscriptions will magically skyrocket and EVE will enter a golden age. We'll see about that (it won't)

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#4 - 2012-10-11 20:19:39 UTC
No, seriously. Apparently bounty hunting is synonymous with with blowing a **** whistle at a good cop convention.

Now everyone can be a bounty hunter! Don't worry about that wheelchair of yours, Johnny. Just hit this button, and Spidey will swing down and web down the guy you'd normally have to risk your life to nab when the first world wasn't pussified to ****. Even your three-year-old sister can get in on the action!

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#5 - 2012-10-11 20:21:57 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
First of all, kill rights will now be created when aggression occurs.

Yeah, front-loading is kind of silly.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Firing on someone in high-sec, despite the outcome, will now result in what is essentially a 30-day free-for-all flag on the dirty scumbag.

Only if you don't get killed. Also, that fee needs to be payed each time it's activated.

Destiny Corrupted wrote:
and I don't imagine too many people will charge fees, considering what this system implies

I have killright on you and make it transferable with no fee. You shoot yourself with alt while piloting noobship. Killright goes away.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2012-10-11 20:23:20 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
... and anyone can shoot you, anywhere, with no warning. Not even a message or a short timer to get ready.


Maybe they could warn themselves before they shoot?

Or are system messages and CONCORD spawn times that important?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2012-10-11 20:24:45 UTC
I'm going to have to go back to piracy, this is awesome Shocked

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#8 - 2012-10-11 20:25:49 UTC
Just out of interest, where do you get the 30 day thing from ?

We got the impression that once the kill-right has been achieved, then it's satisfied for everyone and goes away ?

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Spurty
#9 - 2012-10-11 20:26:53 UTC
Well first off, subject knows he has the suspect flag as its on his UI

so unless they are afk, there's that problem that never was

Going to be different in highsec if you're there to get tears from pre-subscribers.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#10 - 2012-10-11 20:31:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Just out of interest, where do you get the 30 day thing from ?

We got the impression that once the kill-right has been achieved, then it's satisfied for everyone and goes away ?

If the kill right hasn't been achieved, then the attempt isn't exhausted. Which basically means that if a player with a kill right on himself undocks, he is going to get shot by a shitload of people, and dock. And this will continue, on and on and on. He either has to self-claim the kill right as was mentioned above, or simply avoid other players entirely.

And I want to make it clear that I'm disgusted with this system as a bounty hunter who has used the ******* system we've had for almost a decade to collect multiple bounties. I haven't ganked anyone in years, aside from a few people whom I was hired to kill.

Now, my profession is going to be reduced to a stroll through the toddler section of Toys'R'Us. No, seriusly. **** your stupid chop logic. I don't need my targets to have suspect flags. I can do the job alone.

The message you're sending is clear.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#11 - 2012-10-11 20:33:55 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#12 - 2012-10-11 20:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Suvetar
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Or he could undock in a shuttle and get it done with ?

Don't get me wrong, as a player I can see issues combining this with front loading kill rights and all that; but I don't think this particular part is as bad as you're saying.
Again that's just my player opinion.

I kind of agree with Surfin's; Piracy potential is *awesome* Shocked

Edit: I should probably emphasize that these ideas are still ideas and subject to much balancing and testing. If you're this concerned then raise it in the comments thread.

So the whole point of the new system is to self-claim your own kill rights with alts?

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#13 - 2012-10-11 20:37:17 UTC
Not at all, I'm saying that if it only takes one shot to get a kill right against me, I can make sure I get plenty of fights in hubs.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#14 - 2012-10-11 20:38:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Not at all, I'm saying that if it only takes one shot to get a kill right against me, I can make sure I get plenty of fights in hubs.

It's not a fight when you have a suspect flag. Let me know how many kills you get in Jita while being a suspect.

edit: Arguing with ISDs is pointless. They are literally hired to act as CCP heralds. We can get a full-fledged pvp flag tomorrow, and they'll go off about how they have so many more pvp opportunities.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#15 - 2012-10-11 20:38:59 UTC
You asked high sec to become a cold harsh place, you got it.

Activate your kill rights, or someone does this vs you, then it's no man s land and shoot everything shooting you or shoot everything legally with appropriated flag. This couldn't be better to turn high sec in to some place everyone shoots at every one.

How the heck can you silly puppies still moan and cry about it?

Roll

brb

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2012-10-11 20:40:02 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Now, my profession is going to be reduced to a stroll through the toddler section of Toys'R'Us. No, seriusly. **** your stupid chop logic. I don't need my targets to have suspect flags. I can do the job alone.



There will be more competition for the easy stuff, sure. But the serious stuff will still be around.
Andski
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2012-10-11 20:40:34 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
You asked high sec to become a cold harsh place, you got it.


except the 'cold harsh' part is entirely optional

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#18 - 2012-10-11 20:41:56 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Now, my profession is going to be reduced to a stroll through the toddler section of Toys'R'Us. No, seriusly. **** your stupid chop logic. I don't need my targets to have suspect flags. I can do the job alone.



There will be more competition for the easy stuff, sure. But the serious stuff will still be around.

There is no competition. When you activate a kill right, the target becomes free for all to shoot. I obviously wouldn't worry about the target's skill since I'm not even obligated to shoot him when I activate his kill right.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

ISD Suvetar
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#19 - 2012-10-11 20:44:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

edit: Arguing with ISDs is pointless. They are literally hired to act as CCP heralds. We can get a full-fledged pvp flag tomorrow, and they'll go off about how they have so many more pvp opportunities.


If you want a debate then be civil, my position in ISD is entirely unrelated to my opinion as a 2003 player.

[b]ISD Suvetar Captain/Commando Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department[/b]

Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2012-10-11 20:44:47 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
ISD Suvetar wrote:
Not at all, I'm saying that if it only takes one shot to get a kill right against me, I can make sure I get plenty of fights in hubs.

It's not a fight when you have a suspect flag. Let me know how many kills you get in Jita while being a suspect.

edit: Arguing with ISDs is pointless. They are literally hired to act as CCP heralds. We can get a full-fledged pvp flag tomorrow, and they'll go off about how they have so many more pvp opportunities.


All of them Cool

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny

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