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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

First post First post
Author
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#141 - 2012-10-11 16:27:12 UTC
Dirael Papier wrote:

Finding out the bounty issuer could start with a flat fee. Say it's 5m ISK.

The Bounty Issuer then gets a message saying that a request has been made to reveal their name. If they don't want their name revealed, they can pay an increased price of their choosing (minimum 5m ISK above the price offered by the other person.)


Unlike trying to crunch numbers for something simple, this is actually an amusing idea and does not fall under the category of "thinking" too hard. In fact, it specifically falls under the not thinking too hard category because he stole it from someone else's idea. Thus most of the thinking has been done.

I like the concept, I don't think it's realistically going to be implemented, sadly.

Where I am.

Moraguth
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#142 - 2012-10-11 16:27:43 UTC
Dev Blog wrote:

You can track bounties you’ve placed on other players, seeing how much has been paid out. You’re also notified if a player you’ve placed a bounty on is killed.


Let's pretend I think Tippia is a poop head (just for example, and to say someone recognizable), and I put a bounty on her for 10m isk. Then, let's pretend that there's one other person in all of eve who feels the same and places another 10m isk bounty.

After how long will I stop getting notified (eve mail? notification) of people delivering righteous fury upon her ships? Does it matter if I placed my bounty first, and then after that 10m is used up or...?

Along these lines, let's pretend I think anyone associated with Tippia should feel the wrath of my pocketbook too and I decide to put a 500m bounty on her corp. Do I get notified of each kill? Do I see the kill report or just a note saying that ___ person from ___ corp was killed at ____ time and your contribution to the bounty pool against them has been reduced to ____?

(I'm just playing Tippia, don't hate on me)

And some more questions not related to the other two - Will I be able to collect a bounty that I've placed on a person/corp?
Can a corp/alliance place a bounty on another person/corp/alliance? (I can see this being used by say RvB... the whole red alliance could put a bounty on the whole blue alliance. then people in Red could collect, and it would get people not involved in either group to start shooting blues too - just for fun and isk?)

I got a Feature Added!

Stop calling an Abaddon "abba-dawn".  It is "uh-bad-in" dictionary.com/abaddon

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#143 - 2012-10-11 16:27:52 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I am confused.
I have read the dev blog twice.
I see the part in the blog where the -1 sec status requirement has been removed, so that makes me think anyone in the game, in any sec area, can have a bounty on them, and be a target if someone if some bounty hunter is willing to accept high sec consequences of Concord.

So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?


I don't see how that's different than just ganking him over and over without the bounty?


Ummm....big difference.
Now goons can place an X on someone's back, and ANY ganker, ANYWHRE, ANYTIME, can nail someone.
This essentially makes every ganker in space a member of the Ministry of Love.

Now, I am waiting for people to say , "Don't fly what you can't afford to lose", but imagine this scenario:

Goons hate someone. They place a 10 billion bounty on them. That person is flying a freighter, somewhere in high sec. The ship has a load of say, 700M, which is well below the usual safe threshold of 1 billion to make it profitable to gank a freighter. At current prices that ship is worth about 1.5 billion. That makes the payout of the bounty about 300M, plus the potential payoff of the payload of the freighter makes the gank profitable.

Or another scenario. Same victim wants to fly a Marauder in missions. Hull cost is about 800M. Now, you tack on T2 rigs, some faction stuff, and you can easily hit 2 billion in value. The bounty payout is 400M, and you can gank a mission boat in 0.5 space with 2-3 Tornados. Suddenly, the mission runner who usually is ignored by gankers, will ALWAYS be attacked.

With the existing system, the average ganker would say, look at a PvE BS and say, nah, since I am getting no payout, and unsure the nice modules will drop, so not worth it.
Now, not only is that person flagged as they stroll through the gate, ALL gankers will pounce, since the bounty guarantees that at worst they will recover their losses, and the modules are gravy.

Drew Solaert
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#144 - 2012-10-11 16:28:35 UTC
This has actually gone far far FAR beyond my expectations. CCP bravo. Thats all I can say.

I lied :o

MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
#145 - 2012-10-11 16:28:43 UTC
Bloodpetal wrote:
Salpad wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:

We haven't nailed down exact percentages yet, but when we do we will let you guys know for feedback and discussion.


I think 20% is fine. When I thought about it half a week ago or so, that was my own conclusion: 20% of Total Induced Grief Value.

Or 15% or 25%, but I opted for 20%, which I think is good.


Why not higher?

It takes a LOT of work to hunt down a person and make sure they suffer. Not to mention, you are basically forcing kill rights to be on paid rental (otherwise alt will activate and kill themselves) - and a good PVPer will make a group of mercs SUFFER for that chance at a pretty minimal bounty.

Come at me, and you will die repeatedly to collect the bounty on my head. EVE-Kill lists your chance of survival at about 13%. i.e. I have a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and those are against combat targets.

So, some dude comes up to me and kills my 80m hurricane and gets... what? 15m ISK? Oh, did I mention I have an army of killers at my side?

20% is too low to promote ACTUAL "bounty" hunting. Combine that with 1-5m ISK rental costs, and most of your ISK is going to the rental fee.


i think the reason is due to FW LP payouts

There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:

Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad.

Inquisitor Kitchner
The Executives
#146 - 2012-10-11 16:29:13 UTC

Looks pretty good. When this can be specified for specific players/corps/alliances it adds an interesting element.

Do I want to reimburse my alliance's ships that they lose during alliance ops?

Or instead do I want to take that 10 billion a month (or whatever) and throw it on as a bounty on our enemy, so every time a member kills someone they get a payout?

Or both?

It would be like ratting, only more fun.

"If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared." - Niccolo Machiavelli

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#147 - 2012-10-11 16:30:04 UTC
Moraguth wrote:
(I'm just playing Tippia, don't hate on me)
Don't worry, it's bound to happen. Lol
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#148 - 2012-10-11 16:30:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
Kenneth Skybound wrote:
1) At what stage will a kill right be generated in low sec? Attacking the ship? Killing the ship? Attacking the pod or killing that?

o/ I know this one. The killright is generated upon a criminal flag, meaning if you (e: illegally) attack a ship/pod in highsec or attack a pod only in lowsec.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#149 - 2012-10-11 16:31:51 UTC
It'd be good with the specific bounties, if you could specify the payout percentage.

So I make a bounty on an enemy alliance available to my own alliance. With a 50% payout.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#150 - 2012-10-11 16:34:14 UTC
OMG, that's way better than blinking brackets :)

I can't wait for all those derp derp DERP moments I will experience when new crimewatch and bounties/kill rights hit the TQ. It will be like reliving first aggro a year ago. Can I shoot him? No, yes, maybe... Oh sh... why is that guy shooting me?! What, sentries don't help me?! They shoot ME? What do you mean it's because I shot somebody last week?

Invalid signature format

Dirael Papier
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#151 - 2012-10-11 16:35:19 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
It'd be good with the specific bounties, if you could specify the payout percentage.

So I make a bounty on an enemy alliance available to my own alliance. With a 50% payout.

Main issue I'd see with this is you specify 50% for an alliance bounty. Someone else specifies 50% for a personal bounty. Yet another person specifies 50% for a corporation bounty. And all of the sudden the bounty target in question can start killing themselves to get a 150% payout on their ship loss. And they can use that to start draining their own bounty and profit.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#152 - 2012-10-11 16:35:44 UTC
jyppy wrote:
Active kill rights leading to a suspect flag free-for-all - can't wait!

Also interested to find out useful information on how the CSM stakeholder experiment is working - input levels, feedback, disagreements etc.. will CCP be giving a view/blog on this? I'm sure the CSM will, in their own way :p


I'm glad you asked! The stakeholder experiment is still underway, and will be until the feature is actually released. There has certainly been a lot of lessons learned so far about what is working and what isn't working, and the CSM will be documenting these and sharing with the public for sure.

The plan going into this was for the mutual review (CCP's evaluation of the CSM, and vice versa) to take place at the end of the development cycle, so we can cover the project in its entirety and give both parties involved a fair chance to learn and respond to issues as they arose. However we're currently looking into shedding some light on this earlier than that if possible.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary

Mixu Paatelainen
Eve Refinery
#153 - 2012-10-11 16:35:54 UTC
I am willing to have babies with any number of CCP staff.
Eregorn81
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#154 - 2012-10-11 16:36:14 UTC
A few suggestions to make everything *much* clearer:

Make a colortag in the overview (similar to war targets or FW targets) for:

- People that you can kill

- People that can kill you

- People that have killrights for sale.

This way, if I get caught with my pants down in my hauler, at least I can *panic* for a few seconds before getting nuked.
...or I could know that I can shoot at that industrial that just conveniently warped to me.
CCP Tuxford
C C P
C C P Alliance
#155 - 2012-10-11 16:36:21 UTC
Moraguth wrote:


Let's pretend I think Tippia is a poop head (just for example, and to say someone recognizable), and I put a bounty on her for 10m isk. Then, let's pretend that there's one other person in all of eve who feels the same and places another 10m isk bounty.

After how long will I stop getting notified (eve mail? notification) of people delivering righteous fury upon her ships? Does it matter if I placed my bounty first, and then after that 10m is used up or...?

Roughly around the time where your bounty is spent. So in your case once bounties of the amount of 10million have been claimed you stop getting notified. This however hasn't been implemented so nothing is really set in stone

Moraguth wrote:

Along these lines, let's pretend I think anyone associated with Tippia should feel the wrath of my pocketbook too and I decide to put a 500m bounty on her corp. Do I get notified of each kill? Do I see the kill report or just a note saying that ___ person from ___ corp was killed at ____ time and your contribution to the bounty pool against them has been reduced to ____?

The same applies here really except it doesn't really make sense to send a notification for each kill so likely this will be batched up.

https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/CCP%20Tuxford/StatusUpdates

Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#156 - 2012-10-11 16:36:26 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Yeah, this is a bad thing, and respectfully I would ask you to take a second look at it and its potential to be abused, especially since I can now place a bounty, anonymously, on anyone at all for any reason. The victim should at least know who did it, y'know?


We have been actively discussing this for a while. This is one of the key reasons for the dev blog, we are asking you guys for your thoughts.

And I see more and more people ask about this. So that is good to see.

Personally, I think it's awesome that bounties are anonymous and I implore you not to change that.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#157 - 2012-10-11 16:36:51 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
OMG, that's way better than blinking brackets :)

I can't wait for all those derp derp DERP moments I will experience when new crimewatch and bounties/kill rights hit the TQ. It will be like reliving first aggro a year ago. Can I shoot him? No, yes, maybe... Oh sh... why is that guy shooting me?! What, sentries don't help me?! They shoot ME? What do you mean it's because I shot somebody last week?

I can feel a new EVE meme coming already: “don't gank people with your freighter”. Twisted
Callic Veratar
#158 - 2012-10-11 16:39:35 UTC
How will the bounty system tie in with self destruct? Hopefully, now that SD triggers kill mails, everyone will get a cut of the bounty.
Matthias Aaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#159 - 2012-10-11 16:39:50 UTC
I think some people are not getting the "Sale of Kill Rights" correctly.

Imagine this scenario:

Player A: Hapless miner.
Player B: Evil Pirate
Player C: Evil Pirate's friend/alt

Player B finds A mining in a belt and ganks him. Player A has just loss 200million worth in assets (a made up number, lets use it just as an example) and now A has a Kill Right on B. Only A is a harmless miner and cant hope to exact revenge.

Player A decides then to sell his kill right. How much to sell it for? He just lost 200million, so he could sell it for that. But who would buy such a thing? Probably no one. So he thinks up a better price and decides 25million.

Player C says to B "hey look buddy, your kill right is for sale". B then asks C (who might be his alt and therefore B is mentally unstable) to please remove it by killing him in his rookie ship while in a clone with no implants. C kills B and A GETS 25 MILLION IN HIS POCKET! B and C just literally gifted A 25million!

Whats to stop C from killing B? Nothing, only the price tag of the kill right. Does C (or B if C is his alt) REALLY want to spend 25 million of HIS OWN POCKET so that A, a carebear, gets what would effectively be an "apology" for killing him? HELL NO! Because take into account that 25 million plus whatever insurance A got from his destroyed mining barge would help him a lot in getting back to another mining barge. Some people might just prefer to let SOMEONE ELSE contribute to As' "Help me get my Skiff back" fund. Others might just say "to hell with this" and shoot themselves anyway.

In either case A gets 25 million in his pocket.

I think it's brilliant!
MailDeadDrop
Archon Industries
#160 - 2012-10-11 16:39:55 UTC
The blog says about the bounty payout formula:
Quote:
The bounty payout is based on a percentage of the Total Loss, so the bounty received will always be considerably less than the actual Total Loss value. The base number we’re going for right now is 20%.


I understand that part of what is driving this is an attempt to prevent exploiting the system (like we currently have). With that in mind, may I suggest that the bounty payout formula be a percentage of:

Total Loss - Module Drop Value - Cargo Drop Value - Insurance Payout

Basically pay a bounty that is a proportion of the victim's actual wallet & asset loss. Also, with this newer formula I believe you can start with a substantially higher base percentage and still avoid setting up exploit scenarios.

MDD