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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1041 - 2012-10-18 09:49:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Going by the information CCP released so far, the person delivering the killing blow will get the money.

In other words, the guy putting up the killright must find a balance point where he'll require enough money to disincentivize the guy the killright is for from buying it himself to get rid of it, and asking enough to make it worthwhile for others to actually activate it and hope they get the bounty (and of course the loot). Or the guy can just keep activating it himself or keep selling it to his own alt for, say, 1b and keep resending the money back to his alt.

And I just realized, once someone's gotten the criminal flag, every action such as shooting someone in lowsec, stealing from a can etc means that you're generating killrights left, right and centre, because once you're flagged a criminal, every action which carries the suspect penalty is upgraded to a criminal activity. And this includes repping someone who's flagged as a criminal in lowsec, too.

Such an awesome system.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1042 - 2012-10-18 09:49:48 UTC
All this whining... if you cannot set up an ambush for your target where you have him alone without neutral parties around, you fail at bounty-hunting and should consider becoming a hisec miner.

In fact, the mechanic ensures that bounty-hunting requires some skill and effort, because you cannot just randomly buy killrights and sit on a gate in Jita and shoot your clients as they come through. You'll actually have to hunt them down and get them in places where they are alone. Sounds like way more fun to me!

.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#1043 - 2012-10-18 09:54:43 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
All this whining... if you cannot set up an ambush for your target where you have him alone without neutral parties around, you fail at bounty-hunting and should consider becoming a hisec miner.

In fact, the mechanic ensures that bounty-hunting requires some skill and effort, because you cannot just randomly buy killrights and sit on a gate in Jita and shoot your clients as they come through. You'll actually have to hunt them down and get them in places where they are alone. Sounds like way more fun to me!

Only a small proportion of all criminals hang out in unpopulated areas (there's less opportunities there, duh), and the ones that do are likely to be small-timers. The big boys hang out in or near hubs.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1044 - 2012-10-18 09:55:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:


And I just realized, once someone's gotten the criminal flag, every action such as shooting someone in lowsec, stealing from a can etc means that you're generating killrights left, right and centre, because once you're a criminal, every action which carries the suspect penalty is upgraded to a criminal activity.


This is not the case, only actions that put a criminal flag on you when you had none before creates a kill right (not including getting a criminal flag through RRing)
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1045 - 2012-10-18 10:01:39 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
All this whining... if you cannot set up an ambush for your target where you have him alone without neutral parties around, you fail at bounty-hunting and should consider becoming a hisec miner.

In fact, the mechanic ensures that bounty-hunting requires some skill and effort, because you cannot just randomly buy killrights and sit on a gate in Jita and shoot your clients as they come through. You'll actually have to hunt them down and get them in places where they are alone. Sounds like way more fun to me!

Only a small proportion of all criminals hang out in unpopulated areas (there's less opportunities there, duh), and the ones that do are likely to be small-timers. The big boys hang out in or near hubs.

Even in well-populated hisec there are always moments when a gate is almost clear. You can ignore things like neutral freighters or industrials, especially if they are obviously on auto-pilot. Even if some random guy interferes with his Iteron's drones, if you have a decent fleet there, the chances that the neutral gets the kill are absolutely minimal.

.

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
R I O T
#1046 - 2012-10-18 10:07:06 UTC
Terrorfrodo wrote:
interferes with his Iteron's drones

Thank you for your valuable and informed input. It has been noted, and is very much appreciated.

Oh hey, look, SoniClover is here. Maybe he will tell us about proper fleet compositions for bounty hunting raids, and which enchantments to get for our targeting modules in order to lock the kill right perp before he takes the portal to the next system.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#1047 - 2012-10-18 10:12:08 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:


And I just realized, once someone's gotten the criminal flag, every action such as shooting someone in lowsec, stealing from a can etc means that you're generating killrights left, right and centre, because once you're a criminal, every action which carries the suspect penalty is upgraded to a criminal activity.


This is not the case, only actions that put a criminal flag on you when you had none before creates a kill right (not including getting a criminal flag through RRing)


I am sure you meant to say it differently.. or maybe I'm reading it wrong.. but that sounds like you only create a killright ONCE when agressing someone in hisec e.g..
That means, you can target paint an alt of you to become a criminal and your alt gets a killright. Just afterwards you proceed to attack some other player, who then doesn't get a killright as you already were a criminal?
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#1048 - 2012-10-18 10:13:56 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Terrorfrodo wrote:
interferes with his Iteron's drones

Thank you for your valuable and informed input. It has been noted, and is very much appreciated.

You are probably alluding to the fact that Iterons don't actually have drones. I don't fly industrials very often so I slipped up there. However, that just strengthens my point that many of the neutrals in hisec will not be a danger to your bounty hunting efforts.

.

Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1049 - 2012-10-18 10:55:16 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:


And I just realized, once someone's gotten the criminal flag, every action such as shooting someone in lowsec, stealing from a can etc means that you're generating killrights left, right and centre, because once you're a criminal, every action which carries the suspect penalty is upgraded to a criminal activity.


This is not the case, only actions that put a criminal flag on you when you had none before creates a kill right (not including getting a criminal flag through RRing)

So when the devblog says that any action which gets you a criminal flag will award a killright to that person, what it means to say is that actions which in and of themselves would yield a criminal flag would yield a killright, whereas upgraded criminal flags would be treated differently.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#1050 - 2012-10-18 11:17:53 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
The big boys hang out in or near hubs.


Quoted for unbeatable comedy value Lol

.

CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1051 - 2012-10-18 11:31:33 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:

So when the devblog says that any action which gets you a criminal flag will award a killright to that person, what it means to say is that actions which in and of themselves would yield a criminal flag would yield a killright, whereas upgraded criminal flags would be treated differently.


Yes, that is correct, sorry for not stating it more clearly.
CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1052 - 2012-10-18 13:45:52 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:


Oh hey, look, SoniClover is here. Maybe he will tell us about proper fleet compositions for bounty hunting raids


Sure, I recommend you fly with your friends.
Veryez
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1053 - 2012-10-18 15:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Veryez
CCP SoniClover, any chance I could get an answer to my earlier questions?

Veryez wrote:
CCP, we were discussing this earlier and I really couldn't find the answer, so perhaps we could get some info on the following:

Lets say player 'A' has a 10 mil bounty on his head, and has buyable kill rights (more then one). Seeing him flying a fancy t3 ship, I buy the kill right and kill him. I get 2 mil for the kill, leaving 8 mil bounty.

Some time later he's flying another shiny t3 (yeah for needing to be taught twice), I quickly activate one of the other kill rights and kill him again.

Question:

Do I get another 2 mil for the second kill, or do I get 1.6 mil? If it's the second, then when is the bounty used up? i.e. if I keep getting 20% of the current bounty amount, it will never be used up and people will be flying around with 0.00001 isk bounties.

Other question:

1) Do bounties pay out in wh space?

I think I'm really going to like this new system, especially the part where someone just finds out all of EvE can shoot them for something they did a month ago.

Please CCP, don't let a character know when kill rights have been activated against them.

The WTF???? moment when someone undocks in Jita and has 1000 people gank them is beyond priceless.


I might even leave wh space for some of this fun.....Smile
CCP Paradox
#1054 - 2012-10-18 15:43:47 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Paradox
Veryez wrote:
CCP SoniClover, any chance I could get an answer to my earlier questions?

Veryez wrote:
CCP, we were discussing this earlier and I really couldn't find the answer, so perhaps we could get some info on the following:

Lets say player 'A' has a 10 mil bounty on his head, and has buyable kill rights (more then one). Seeing him flying a fancy t3 ship, I buy the kill right and kill him. I get 2 mil for the kill, leaving 8 mil bounty.

Some time later he's flying another shiny t3 (yeah for needing to be taught twice), I quickly activate one of the other kill rights and kill him again.

Question:

Do I get another 2 mil for the second kill, or do I get 1.6 mil? If it's the second, then when is the bounty used up? i.e. if I keep getting 20% of the current bounty amount, it will never be used up and people will be flying around with 0.00001 isk bounties.

Other question:

1) Do bounties pay out in wh space?

I think I'm really going to like this new system, especially the part where someone just finds out all of EvE can shoot them for something they did a month ago.

Please CCP, don't let a character know when kill rights have been activated against them.

The WTF???? moment when someone undocks in Jita and has 1000 people gank them is beyond priceless.


I might even leave wh space for some of this fun.....Smile


It isn't 20% of the bounty pool amount, it is 20% of the kill (base value).
So you would continue to receive 2 million payouts until the pool is empty.
Example: He has a 50 million bounty. His ship worth was 10 million, you receive 2 million of that. It will continue to payout until the pool is empty.

(Note that this is an arbitrary example, the % can differ)

Also, there is no reason that a WH system would protect someone. You will gain the bounty payout on the death of that character, whether he is in a ship or pod, High-Sec, Low-Sec, Null-Sec, or Wormhole space. Someone paid to have that character killed, and you delivered the service.

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Veryez
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#1055 - 2012-10-18 15:45:43 UTC
CCP Paradox wrote:

It isn't 20% of the bounty pool amount, it is 20% of the kill (base value).
So you would continue to receive 2 million payouts until the pool is empty, if each kill was worth a total of 10 million.

Also, there is no reason that a WH system would protect someone. You will gain the bounty payout on the death of that character, whether he is in a ship or pod, High-Sec, Low-Sec, Null-Sec, or Wormhole space. Someone paid to have that character killed, and you delivered the service.


Thank You.
CCP Paradox
#1056 - 2012-10-18 15:46:42 UTC
I updated it, to give you a better example. I hope it helps

CCP Paradox | EVE QA | Team Phenomenon

Space Magician

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#1057 - 2012-10-18 15:47:59 UTC
Veryez wrote:
CCP SoniClover, any chance I could get an answer to my earlier questions?

Veryez wrote:
CCP, we were discussing this earlier and I really couldn't find the answer, so perhaps we could get some info on the following:

Lets say player 'A' has a 10 mil bounty on his head, and has buyable kill rights (more then one). Seeing him flying a fancy t3 ship, I buy the kill right and kill him. I get 2 mil for the kill, leaving 8 mil bounty.

Some time later he's flying another shiny t3 (yeah for needing to be taught twice), I quickly activate one of the other kill rights and kill him again.

Question:

Do I get another 2 mil for the second kill, or do I get 1.6 mil? If it's the second, then when is the bounty used up? i.e. if I keep getting 20% of the current bounty amount, it will never be used up and people will be flying around with 0.00001 isk bounties.

Other question:

1) Do bounties pay out in wh space?

I think I'm really going to like this new system, especially the part where someone just finds out all of EvE can shoot them for something they did a month ago.

Please CCP, don't let a character know when kill rights have been activated against them.

The WTF???? moment when someone undocks in Jita and has 1000 people gank them is beyond priceless.


I might even leave wh space for some of this fun.....Smile

If he was flying a ship worth more than 50 mil, you would get the entire 10 mil for the first kill.

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Ghostwarden
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1058 - 2012-10-18 16:47:11 UTC
Well, I've asked this earlier but if players are having to purchase Kill Rights from other players and they go and risk their own ships to redeem the kill right, then how is this a profession. Profession implies that your earning money for the "Work " that you do.

1. Purchase the Kill Rights = Loss of Isk
2. Go find target, activate kill rights and attempt to gank him before someone else can.
a. If the target has a bounty and you get him & his loots = Makes Isk
b. If the target has a bounty and you someone else get's him or he gets away = loss of Isk
c. If the target has a bounty and you Loose = loss of Isk
d. If the target has no bounty it doesn't matter if you get the kill or not = Makes no Isk

So once again. How in any way is this a Profession when odds are against you making money at. And I'm not even going over the ways that have been pointed out that the system can be scammed.

WHY would I want to be a bounty hunter, because this just looks like a way to pay Isk for the privilege to PVP in highsec.
Honestly it just looks like a way for the initial player that got ganked to try to recoup some of their loss. While this is fine for the ganked player I think it kind of goes against the general idea that Eve space is a cold harsh place.

Please don't take this as a rant. I'm a dyed in the wool carebear, but I've learned to watch my back and play the game, and I accept that you can get shot anywhere at anytime. That's the game.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#1059 - 2012-10-18 16:52:26 UTC
With the upcoming bunch of mechanics, it's not a profession, and that's not the point of the upcoming mechanics, either. The point of the upcoming mechanics is to curb hisec griefing as much as possible without actually disallowing it outright, instead of fixing the actual root of the problem which is the fact that nullsec sucks to live in, which in turn meahs roaming gangs had nothing to do and have now increasingly begun looking to hisec for tears.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Bodega Cat
BlackWatch Industrial Group
Northern Coalition.
#1060 - 2012-10-18 17:01:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bodega Cat
Ghostwarden wrote:
Well, I've asked this earlier but if players are having to purchase Kill Rights from other players and they go and risk their own ships to redeem the kill right, then how is this a profession. Profession implies that your earning money for the "Work " that you do.

1. Purchase the Kill Rights = Loss of Isk
2. Go find target, activate kill rights and attempt to gank him before someone else can.
a. If the target has a bounty and you get him & his loots = Makes Isk
b. If the target has a bounty and you someone else get's him or he gets away = loss of Isk
c. If the target has a bounty and you Loose = loss of Isk
d. If the target has no bounty it doesn't matter if you get the kill or not = Makes no Isk

So once again. How in any way is this a Profession when odds are against you making money at. And I'm not even going over the ways that have been pointed out that the system can be scammed.

WHY would I want to be a bounty hunter, because this just looks like a way to pay Isk for the privilege to PVP in highsec.
Honestly it just looks like a way for the initial player that got ganked to try to recoup some of their loss. While this is fine for the ganked player I think it kind of goes against the general idea that Eve space is a cold harsh place.

Please don't take this as a rant. I'm a dyed in the wool carebear, but I've learned to watch my back and play the game, and I accept that you can get shot anywhere at anytime. That's the game.


At best (if it even works at all), this idea of bounty hunting will only be a quasi-successful "career" path for the most dedicated of players, and then much like many other fringe careers in EVE, is way less glamorous than it sounds.

But this is probably the intention. Bounty hunting by nature isn't something just about anybody should be able to do successfully. Criminals are always going to remain smart and savy. People that do shenanigans are non-environmental entities. They are not rats that can be farmed in a sector of space somewhere.

In fact, I think Criminals are going to get so smart,t heir not even going to bother doing things that generate kill rights at all on main operational type characters anyway. Thus as has been said before, mitigating this new system into almost complete obscurity.