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Dev blog: The Retribution of Team Super Friends

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Author
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#81 - 2012-10-11 15:56:05 UTC
MeBiatch wrote:
CCP Bro wrote:
I want one of those brofists! Also, this is pretty awesome stuff!



every dev needs to post in the like and get likes thread... i should never have more likes then any ccp dev... well maybe goliath but thats a different story.Blink


some of us just like to earn likes with good posting!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis

Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#82 - 2012-10-11 15:56:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Deornoth Drake
Kill rights
Excellent idea that killing a ship in low sec won't create a kill right anymore. (edit: great -> create)
This is good news for casual pirates which don't kill the pods.
So thumbs up for making low sec a bit more interesting (less painful) for the local pirates
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#83 - 2012-10-11 15:56:46 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?
For one, the target might wise up to the scheme and start flying ships that pay out less than it costs to kill them, making it worthless to pursue him.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#84 - 2012-10-11 15:56:59 UTC
Here's a thought.

People used the bounty system for advertising.

Add an advertising system, so people can buy (with ISK) time to show up on the billboards and CQ screens, for themselves or their Corporation, with it linking through to the bio.

(helps a little with the TTP.)

It's another ISK sink.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#85 - 2012-10-11 15:57:08 UTC
Also; I like the corp and alliance bounties. Cool beans.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#86 - 2012-10-11 15:57:13 UTC
Killrights could easily be manipulated to disappear with alts just shooting your killright character in a frig or shuttle.
Could the Killright be modular like a bounty, it wont pay out isk but will deduct the proper amount of loss depending on the initial loss that gave you a killright?
So if they ganked a frig, them losing 20% value of the frig completes the kill right contract.
If you lost a BS, they can continually lose cruisers and frigates via kill rights for weeks tell 30 days has passed or 20% of the BS value has been deducted.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#87 - 2012-10-11 15:57:22 UTC
Looks Nice! A few questions/notes:

It would be nice if I could set the payout percentage. If I place a bounty on a large alliance, it would quickly go away at 20%. But at 2% it persist awhile. 20% would still be the limit. If multiple people place bounties on one target, and they all add up to over 20% there would be a proportional payout system, limiting any given payout to 20%.

For that matter, how is the payout proportioned with your system now? That is:

I place a 1 million isk bounty on someone, you place a 2 million isk bounty on the same person. He dies, generating a payout of 600,000. I assume we both get eve-mail saying "XXXX of your bounty was awarded for killing....." what will the value of XXXX be for each of us? Proportional, like 200,000 from me, 400,000 from you? He then goes inactive and we both get the remaining bounty back. How much do we each get back?

Will bounties be iterated so I can place a bounty on classes of players? Like "all players with a sec status below -5, but not members of corp qqqq". Or "any Drake kill"?

Will I be able to set which players can collect a bounty? Example: A bounty on all members of alliance gggg, but not available to members of alliance aaaa or ttttt, or any loss that occurs in Null sec. The idea with this last one is to reward killing alliance gggg supply line ships traveling between null and high sec, but not reward kills associated with ongoing null sec wars.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#88 - 2012-10-11 15:57:30 UTC
Salpad wrote:
CCP Paradox wrote:

We haven't nailed down exact percentages yet, but when we do we will let you guys know for feedback and discussion.


I think 20% is fine. When I thought about it half a week ago or so, that was my own conclusion: 20% of Total Induced Grief Value.

Or 15% or 25%, but I opted for 20%, which I think is good.


Why not higher?

It takes a LOT of work to hunt down a person and make sure they suffer. Not to mention, you are basically forcing kill rights to be on paid rental (otherwise alt will activate and kill themselves) - and a good PVPer will make a group of mercs SUFFER for that chance at a pretty minimal bounty.

Come at me, and you will die repeatedly to collect the bounty on my head. EVE-Kill lists your chance of survival at about 13%. i.e. I have a 7 to 1 kill ratio, and those are against combat targets.

So, some dude comes up to me and kills my 80m hurricane and gets... what? 15m ISK? Oh, did I mention I have an army of killers at my side?

20% is too low to promote ACTUAL "bounty" hunting. Combine that with 1-5m ISK rental costs, and most of your ISK is going to the rental fee.

Where I am.

Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#89 - 2012-10-11 15:57:48 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
I am confused.
I have read the dev blog twice.
I see the part in the blog where the -1 sec status requirement has been removed, so that makes me think anyone in the game, in any sec area, can have a bounty on them, and be a target if someone if some bounty hunter is willing to accept high sec consequences of Concord.

So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?


Keep in mind, there are still the usual CONCORD consequences.

If the Goons dump a 50 billion ISK bounty on me, and I undock in a ship worth 250 million ISK with another 150 million in modules, rigs, ammo, implants, then the payout for suicide ganking me (including a pod kill on me) is 80 million ISK, and there'll be 49920 million bounty remaining.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#90 - 2012-10-11 15:57:50 UTC
I see 2 problems

1: "This allows anyone in the vicinity of the suspect to engage him legally." As in when someone buys the kill right... this is way too effective, it should only work for the person buying the kill right

2: when anyone can buy the kill right, what stops the guy with the kill right on from using an alt to kill himself while he is in a rookieship?

I like everything else :) but there should probably be a very close look at how people get these kill rights... because with this change you effectively nerfed suicide ganking into the ground :) (mainly because of ability to activate suspect flag on the spot)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#91 - 2012-10-11 15:58:08 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
So what is to stop someone like goons from placing a 10 billion isk bounty on someone they dislike, which pays out with 50 billion ISK in ship and implant losses, then restarting the bounty again, until the person they have set the bounty on has had their assets completely wiped out?

I doubt even GSF has the ISK to do this to everyone they dislike, and the people they'd dislike enough to spend the ISK on they'd prefer to shoot themselves anyway
Sanna Irvam
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#92 - 2012-10-11 15:58:23 UTC
I worry about high sec haulers. What?

With the new system, if I understand, i can put a 100k isk bounty on a freighter pilot, buying killrights and having a fleet ganking the freighter without Concord coming...

Problem ?
Noriko Mai
#93 - 2012-10-11 15:58:33 UTC
Matt Grav wrote:

* Aren't players with a 30 day kill right for sale hanging over them just going undock in a very cheap or rookie ship to get a friend or alt to kill them ? I guess for this to work well you will need to find the right price point. Cheap enough for players to buy to allow kill rights but expensive enough for it not to be just a trivial cost to remove with an alt. At the moment it feels as if it is going to be too easy to avoid.

Maybe: IF Bountypayout < Killrigth price THEN Killright still active.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Noriko Mai
#94 - 2012-10-11 15:59:40 UTC
Sanna Irvam wrote:
I worry about high sec haulers. What?

With the new system, if I understand, i can put a 100k isk bounty on a freighter pilot, buying killrights and having a fleet ganking the freighter without Concord coming...

Problem ?

Someone has to sell them. And it's unlikely that someone has Killrights for a HS hauler.

"Meh.." - Albert Einstein

Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#95 - 2012-10-11 16:00:08 UTC
Noriko Mai wrote:
darius mclever wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Noriko Mai wrote:
With this, there will be a way to find out that a corp with 10 members has only two active pilots.
IIRC you tried to avoid exactly this (find out how many players are active in a corp) in the wardec price calculation.
I suppose the difference is that, with the wardec calculation, you would have gotten that information for free when you “tried” to dec them and there would be no way to get it wrong. With this system, you first have to find every member in the corp (which may or may not be possible) and then you have to poll each one of them. That's an awful lot of work for information that might not even be accurate.


in times of evewho. this isnt really that a big hurdle anymore.

And with 100k minimum it's nearly free. And this way you can exactly find out who is active and who's not.



And, if you're the ones war deccing them, and you end up killing them, you get your own bounty back.

SO it is free.

Where I am.

Dirael Papier
Malevelon Roe Industries
Convocation of Empyreans
#96 - 2012-10-11 16:00:20 UTC
Oh, also for a character that has a bounty for personal, corp, and alliance on them, when they're killed will that all be paid out at 20% each (so 60% of the total) or do you plan to have it scale down similar to module stacking penalties (20% of the personal bounty, 15% of the corporation bounty, 10% of the alliance bounty for 45% total, or something like that.)

If it all pays out at 20%, then that'll limit how juicy the high profile bounty targets can become. (That is, you wouldn't be able to boost them above 33% without them being able to start profiting from killing themselves.) And if then the top killer has only one bounty on them (say personal) then it doesn't seem like as much of an impressive boost to have the best bounty available be 33% over the usual 20%. Especially if later the highest profile bounty hunters also get percentage boosts for being good at their jobs.
Salpad
Carebears with Attitude
#97 - 2012-10-11 16:00:29 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
Salpad wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:

I very much like this idea as a compromise. More Isk Sinks Is More Better


It needs to be proportional to the size of the bounty. If I place a 2 billion ISK bounty on someone, he should have to pay NPC Bounty Office Guys a lot more than 5 million to find out it was me who did it.

Probably not 1:1 proprotional, but some kind of proportionality. If 100k is the minimum bounty, then a starting point for the Discover cost could be the square root of the bounty deposit. Square root, times 20? Just to throw a number on the table.


I disagree with this. Flat fees work great in this case, whereas making it proportional to the bounty size puts even more of the power in the hands of the issuer.


Actually, I just did the "math". If you take the square root (X^0.5) and multiply by 20, then the "discover fee" on a 50 billion bounty is a bit over 4 million. So probably an exponent other than 0.5, and certainly a multiplier larger than 20, if anything like my suggestion gets implemented.
Juan Zezole
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#98 - 2012-10-11 16:01:00 UTC
Firstly, nice to see dev time being focused on a broken system that could be so much more (as a SW Galaxies refugee I KNOW how a decent Bounty Hunter system works).

And now for the reality check.

POINTLESS

All your work, all the bells and whistles. Pointless.

Until you make it possible to hunt targets without interferance from CONCORD in high sec on an ad-hoc basis every last second of the time you have dedicated to this is pointless. For the love of all that is holy, give us one kill contracts. Give us Harrasment contracts. How god damn hard is it to get through to you guys?? High-sec should not be immune to non consentual PVP.
Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild
General Tso's Alliance
#99 - 2012-10-11 16:01:35 UTC
This is awesome, great job guys!

I thought the Suspect for Killrights was a bit much, but considering its now harder to actually get killrights on you, then I think its pretty fair.

2 Questions:
If multiple people have killrights on me, can I be repeatedly Suspect flagged?

When Retribution launches, you are resetting bounties, will you reset killrights as well? Currently it is a ton easier to get killrights, and mine are probably going to spill over.

Can't wait to dual box my Dust toon and EVE toon on the same machine!

Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#100 - 2012-10-11 16:01:36 UTC
Sanna Irvam wrote:
I worry about high sec haulers. What?

With the new system, if I understand, i can put a 100k isk bounty on a freighter pilot, buying killrights and having a fleet ganking the freighter without Concord coming...

Problem ?

addding bounty doesn't create a killright