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CSM7 - Transparency: Where is it?

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Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#21 - 2012-10-11 18:31:30 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
We never got this sort of pandering when The Mittani was in charge.


Not even before the Summer of Rage?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2012-10-17 14:52:29 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'd like to see their opinions on the latest bounty/killright devblog.

Their opinions on the suspect flag being applied for activating a killright, for instance.

It's been a point of contention.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
None ofthe Above
#23 - 2012-10-20 02:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: None ofthe Above
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'd like to see their opinions on the latest bounty/killright devblog.

Their opinions on the suspect flag being applied for activating a killright, for instance.

It's been a point of contention.


That's one thing I hate about you Alex, once we get you started talking -- can't get you to shut up. Can count on you to elucidate on a point until ... oh wait. That's Hans I am thinking of. Sorry.

So the contention here is with the other members of the CSM? With CCP? Can you perhaps discuss who is taking what position and what alternatives are being proposed.

I'll note this thread is about transparency, after all.

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2012-10-20 03:25:19 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'd like to see their opinions on the latest bounty/killright devblog.

Their opinions on the suspect flag being applied for activating a killright, for instance.

It's been a point of contention.
Wow. This is what you call transparency? Or you just scared to upset CCP, figuring they could cut off access? What good is the access if you're unable to publicly criticise, so that your constituents know where you stand?
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#25 - 2012-10-21 04:19:26 UTC
^ Poetic most people on CSM are from null sec. DUH, of course they don't care about hi sec changes. Of course a good question would be if kardde's merc corp would ever come to hi sec to chase bounties or if he plans to stay in null or low after the bounty change.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2012-10-21 19:24:35 UTC
The transparency by the CSM is stifling. Stop posting you guys, so much to read.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#27 - 2012-11-09 07:48:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I'd like to see their opinions on the latest bounty/killright devblog.

Their opinions on the suspect flag being applied for activating a killright, for instance.

It's been a point of contention.
Wow. This is what you call transparency? Or you just scared to upset CCP, figuring they could cut off access? What good is the access if you're unable to publicly criticise, so that your constituents know where you stand?

Going through my old posts for our activity summary (gee, transparency!) and noticed responses to my earlier post.

Yes, it is what i call transparency. Discussions are ongoing via NDA channels. Other than telling you it's something the CSM was arguing about with CCP what more could I say you think needs to be heard? You wanted a position, an idea of our reaction. Not sure how anyone could read my post as anything but a public criticism, so I'll leave the rest of the bloviating alone.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2012-11-09 07:58:29 UTC
When is the next Town Hall? Shouldn't the time and date be announced soon? You all said you wanted to have them every 4-6 weeks. I think it's been quite a bit longer since the last one.

How about a Town Hall before the next summit? You know, transparency and all, plus connecting with the playerbase. That thing you're supposed to be doing as CSM members.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#29 - 2012-11-09 08:37:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Alekseyev Karrde
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
When is the next Town Hall? Shouldn't the time and date be announced soon? You all said you wanted to have them every 4-6 weeks. I think it's been quite a bit longer since the last one.

How about a Town Hall before the next summit? You know, transparency and all, plus connecting with the playerbase. That thing you're supposed to be doing as CSM members.

We're trying to time this next town hall so players can provide us with feedback before the Reykjavik summit in December. For that to be possible, we need to have the summit topics nailed down and giveable to the playerbase. This process is happening right now, and we hope for it to be done by the weekend. We're eager to schedule the next town hall as soon as possible and have it be a productive connection between players and CSM.

EDIT: nice pivot Stan

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-11-09 08:54:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
When is the next Town Hall? Shouldn't the time and date be announced soon? You all said you wanted to have them every 4-6 weeks. I think it's been quite a bit longer since the last one.

How about a Town Hall before the next summit? You know, transparency and all, plus connecting with the playerbase. That thing you're supposed to be doing as CSM members.
We're trying to time this next town hall so players can provide us with feedback before the Reykjavik summit in December. For that to be possible, we need to have the summit topics nailed down and giveable to the playerbase. This process is happening right now, and we hope for it to be done by the weekend. We're eager to schedule the next town hall as soon as possible and have it be a productive connection between players and CSM.
I'm pretty sure you can set a date and time for the town hall now. The topics of discussion can be determined in about 20 minutes at some point before that date and time.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2012-11-09 13:08:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

Yes, it is what i call transparency. Discussions are ongoing via NDA channels. Other than telling you it's something the CSM was arguing about with CCP what more could I say you think needs to be heard? You wanted a position, an idea of our reaction. Not sure how anyone could read my post as anything but a public criticism, so I'll leave the rest of the bloviating alone.

We want you to tell us what each CSM member thinks about this issue so we know who we have to crucify if Crimewatch turns out to be ****.

More transparency = better informed voters on the next CSM elections (the horror) = more accountability.

The Summit minutes were a step in the right direction but now you are just trying to hide under the protection of the amorphous "the CSM" again.

.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2012-11-09 13:18:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
What you should do is to speak to CCP as one voice (to maximize impact) but to make each CSM member's individual opinions completely transparent to your electorate (so we can make informed decisions come election day).

What you actually do is to present CCP with diluted and conflicting messages while hiding behind the collective when communicating with your voters.

.
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#33 - 2012-11-09 17:32:42 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community.
Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency.

Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc.

That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase.

NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-11-09 20:14:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community.
Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency.

Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc.

That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase.

NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it.

CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why.
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2012-11-09 20:18:16 UTC
Vera Algaert wrote:
What you should do is to speak to CCP as one voice (to maximize impact) but to make each CSM member's individual opinions completely transparent to your electorate (so we can make informed decisions come election day).
I was pleased to see Hans taking a first step in this direction today, discussing his opinions on ECM and the upcoming changes.

http://hansshotfirst.blogspot.ca/2012/11/the-permaproblem.html

Granted, it's not a strong-opinion, and it's carefully worded to avoid too much criticism of CCP ... but it is a step in the right direction. It might be too little too late ... but there's still time for him to go more fully into the entire expansion.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#36 - 2012-11-09 20:45:12 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect

Let's have some Poetic transparency.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#37 - 2012-11-09 20:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Poetic Stanziel
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect.
Let's have some Poetic transparency.
Wow. You really put me in my place.

(Is somebody in your alliance telling you that you're great at sh!t-talking? Because they are trolling you, dude. You're terrible at it. Do your reputation a favour, stop now.)
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#38 - 2012-11-10 07:21:02 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Abyssum Invocat wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
CSM 7 is being very transparent, you are just using some bizarre filter to pretend we aren't engaging the community.
Appearing on a podcast is not necessarily transparency.

Telling some podcast guy that "we spend a lot of time on Skype" is not transparent. What are you talking about? What did you agree with? What did you disagree with? With the NDA for Retribution beginning to fall by the wayside (devblogs should invalidate NDAs, because the info is now out in the open), the CSM should begin detailing their opinions on the new features, the good and the bad, especially where they told CCP there would be problems, etc.

That gives us a fuller picture of how well each CSM member actually understands the game and their area of interest, and how well they are representing the playerbase.

NDAs don't end when the information becomes publicly available, they end when either the NDA says they end or when the signatory is told they may talk about it.

CCP should tell us when NDAs end, because I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when they're probably no longer is in effect. We have only their word to trust. I'd prefer CCP tell us when certain NDAs have dropped, so if the CSM refuses to talk on a subject, we know why.

Then make complaints to CCP or contact a representative on the CSM who you are on good terms with and get some answers or changes.

Do we have any CSM members here who would volunteer to bring this issue up with CCP?
Abyssum Invocat
Yet Another Tax Haven
#39 - 2012-11-10 07:27:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Abyssum Invocat
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
I feel that the CSM uses it as an excuse to avoid criticism, even when it probably no longer is in effect.
Let's have some Poetic transparency.
Wow. You really put me in my place.

(Is somebody in your alliance telling you that you're great at sh!t-talking? Because they are trolling you, dude. You're terrible at it. Do your reputation a favour, stop now.)

Poetic, you need to harden up and leave the trash talk and personal attacks by the wayside. Trust me when I say this, you are destroying your credibility with this kind of posting. You do not need to polarize everyone into being with you or against you. Please don't take this as an attack, it is one community writer advising another. You need to calm down and take these topics more tactfully if you want to report your findings to everyone and have them listen, because this kind of tone is one I see often from you and it serves more to isolate your points of view then to share or elucidate any possible findings.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#40 - 2012-11-10 08:55:31 UTC
ITT: "The CSM doesn't want to spend hours responding to one sperglord, therefore it's a secret cabal of HATE"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016