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Dev blog: Stay on Target!

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Kethry Avenger
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#201 - 2012-10-10 22:44:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
Make the health bars colored.

Shield = Blue

Armor = Green

Structure = Yellow
I'm not sure… If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar.

Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.


<---- Not a UI designer. Just spit balling. Though I would pick more EVE like colors, pastels probably wouldn't work.
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#202 - 2012-10-10 22:44:47 UTC
Just a quick question as we're all having fun with what to do with new graphical elements for the Overview UI etcetera...

Can we maybe get some under-the-hood work on the Overview System so its less buggy so it doest:

1) Go mental under laggy conditions when we use custom bracket profiles.
2) Show up blues as neutrals every so often
3) Automatically default certain options in the overview settings to "on" even when you've expressly turned them off both in-game and out of game in a custom XML File.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#203 - 2012-10-10 22:45:23 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Many of you are worried that you will not know which bar is which.
I personally think that people will just know once the they start playing with it, and I look forward to seeing how you feel about it when you have tested it yourself.
We are going to be looking into what we can do to make it clearer, especially if we find out that people just don't get it.
That being said, we are still so deep in development of this that it might completely change, who knows :P


Don't be so sure. Someone pointed out to me earlier today that the game, in its early phases (we're talking like 2003-2004 here) had circular indicators for HP like what we're looking at here and that - wait for it - people were confused by them!


Swidgen wrote:
You can't seriously be redesigning this without adding an indication of the target's capacitor level, can you? If you don't add that, this amounts to fluff nobody asked for. Again.


That's not info available to you at all (except by target scanner, maybe?) Why would it be included and openly available?

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#204 - 2012-10-10 22:46:22 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Kethry Avenger wrote:
Make the health bars colored.

Shield = Blue

Armor = Green

Structure = Yellow
I'm not sure… If you make the colour strong, it'll just make for a technicolour jumble where it becomes difficult to make out the damage, and if you make it subtle, there's the question of why use it at all since they will be fairly similar.

Compare this non-coloured version, but with a gap to provide a hint about the beginning and end of the gauge (and a gentle arrow effect to show the direction), and the coloured version of the same display. I don't feel like those colours add much except make it look more cluttered and messy.



I dont know if the arrows are necessary, but I think adding a gap with an image is a good idea, same thing I proposed before I read yours (Although I posted after) Pirate

Where I am.
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#205 - 2012-10-10 22:48:12 UTC
CCP karkur wouldn't it be time to update the brackets themselves also? something that can give plenty of information about standings like now, but also doesn't block out the ships your looking at, even from a distance? unless you play without brackets

It's basicly impossible to play without brackets unless your just sitting still or set orbit on an FC as it's very hard to see where the hostile ships would be at in space, what if brackets where thinner and had a colour depending on standing

Like this?:

http://i.imgur.com/Dk5Nu.jpg

(different shapes as examples?, also leet ms paint skills)

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
SyntaxPD
PowerDucks
PowerDucks Alliance
#206 - 2012-10-10 22:48:26 UTC
I'd more like square targeted icons... Circle is just... fine, but i better like corners.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#207 - 2012-10-10 22:49:12 UTC
Kethry Avenger wrote:
<---- Not a UI designer. Just spit balling. Though I would pick more EVE like colors, pastels probably wouldn't work.
Agreed, but that's just it: they have to be rather light and faint, or they'll drown out the damage colour (unless, counter-intuitively, you make the damage a very light). On the other hand, if you make them very strong and darker, they risk blending in with the surrounding space and/or the black background of the targeting circle.

You get more contrast if you go for light grey vs. bright red than if you go for bright [colour] vs. bright red.
mkint
#208 - 2012-10-10 22:51:33 UTC
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Ark Anhammar
GO' R0V
Pandemic Horde
#209 - 2012-10-10 22:52:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Ark Anhammar
Cordo Draken wrote:
Actually I like the Circles (i.e. Targets)... As for seeing the Shield, Armor, Structure at a glance... I think it's just a matter of getting used to it. Even w/o knowing what they plan I'd guess that Shields would be on the left, Armor = Right side & Structure on the bottom... It seems rather logical to me. Hell, after having to get used to the new inventory UI, this is a piece of Cake, and it will become "At a Glance" in no time as it's only 3 bars.

I think keeping Circles around the target would be awesome, but I propose these tweaks:

-Can you order the Shield on the left, Armor on the Right and structure at the bottom?

-When the Shield/Armor are depleted, they should start at the top (100%) and slowly be reduced toward the bottom (structure). So a ship with 10% shield and 20% armor would have small bar on the lower left, little bigger bar on the lower right and a bar at the bottom for structure. Structure could perhaps start on either side and deplete toward the middle!

-Color coding the bars is definitely a good idea--maybe the bar could go from a solid color at the top (gray) and as it's destroyed it could change color gradually into red until it disappears?

-Could we try segmented bars to give a better guess-timation about the remaining %?

-Can we try leaving the Square lock/bars at the top of the screen, but use the new circular dynamic bars on the actual ship?

Just some thoughts, but I love it overall!
Tork Norand
Perkone
Caldari State
#210 - 2012-10-10 22:53:25 UTC
I read about half the posts, then decided to reply...I don't think I'm repeating anyone, but who knows. Lol

Instead of doing the 120° arcs around the target (I am not a fan of that look), I would suggest doing it like your own ship is displayed. Three 180° arcs stacked (Shields on top, Armor in the middle, Hull as the innermost). That would be on each target both as the icons and on the brackets.

Then, you have the lower-half to indicate damage amount (red), ewar level, or whatever other information. Possibly one option would be "which target is hurting me the most over the past 10 seconds?" with each target getting a portion of it's "pi". :)

If you keep with the square icons (which there's no real reason to change from), then you could put the defenses on the top half of the icon and the other data below the icon. The icon itself doesn't need to be as large as it is now (and in fact, a name may be a better choice).

I would also highly recommend letting the end user turn on and off what they want to see here and in what order (and what color). That will take some extra work but the client is receiving the data anyway, let the user decide what and how much data he wants displayed.

--Tork. CEO and Herder of Cats.
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#211 - 2012-10-10 22:54:36 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
Ugleb wrote:
Andski wrote:
Brackets should flash distinctly when the other ship is using an assistance module on you. This would be pretty useful in situations i.e. cap chaining where the only indications that they're transferring capacitor to you are the effect (which is usually turned off) and the fact that your capacitor is increasing.


Maybe something similar to the 'hit icon sequence' pulsing animation but in green or blue? It could become more intense as you receive a larger rep amount per cycle.

This is something that has come up in our meetings (except we were thinking blue) P... but we haven't made any decision on it yet.



Do eeet!

Where I am.
CCP karkur
C C P
C C P Alliance
#212 - 2012-10-10 22:55:57 UTC
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?

CCP karkur | Programmer | Team Five 0 | @CCP_karkur
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#213 - 2012-10-10 22:56:06 UTC
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.


We've been trying to say: it's work in progress and we're taking your feedback and will see what we can do. The confusion about shield/armour/hull is understood and we'll see what we can do to improve it.

There is some other nice feedback here, and some stuff we've already been considering.

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Tahna Rouspel
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#214 - 2012-10-10 22:56:21 UTC
How would it look if the damage reports were floating numbers on top of the victim like in many other games? You would see the damage numbers pop over the image of your target. Damage received could stay as is.
Angeliq
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#215 - 2012-10-10 22:56:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Angeliq
The really reallyOLD targeting UI versus the NEW targeting UI.

http://oi49.tinypic.com/b6t6aq.jpg

As one of the oldest still active players I can not help ask myself if any of the devs that worked at this 'new targeting UI" actually know how EVE looked like back in it's early days?

wow much space very ship such pvp many pew
Prince aikka
#216 - 2012-10-10 22:57:12 UTC
Having an issue even being able to see the blog

Quote:
500 - Internal server error.
There is a problem with the resource you are looking for, and it cannot be displayed.
Lyric Lahnder
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-10-10 22:58:46 UTC
So fast firing guns get smaller but more frequent flashes.

How do we know a group of people wont just start un grouping there auto canons and crash some one else's client because there's dozens of flying Christmas trees on there screen?

This system sounds interesting I'm just worried about how many resources it will consume.

Noir. and Noir Academy are recruiting apply at www.noirmercs.com I Noir Academy: 60 days old must be able to fly at least one tech II frigate. I Noir. Recruits: 4:1 k/d ratio and can fly tech II cruisers.
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#218 - 2012-10-10 22:59:32 UTC
Angeliq wrote:
The really reallyOLD targeting UI versus the NEW targeting UI.

http://oi49.tinypic.com/b6t6aq.jpg

As one of the oldest still active players I can not help ask myself if any of the devs that worked at this 'new targeting UI" actually know how EVE looked like back in it's early days?


Yes we do. Actually have reference pictures on my screen now...

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus
Bubanni
Corus Aerospace
#219 - 2012-10-10 22:59:53 UTC
CCP karkur wrote:
mkint wrote:
I like how the typical dev response so far has been 'I'm right you're wrong, suck it.' I'm getting that bad feeling that comes before things like before the inventory changes, and every other unpopular failure that I've seen added to the game.

wow, really?


Don't listen to him, sure it could use some extra tweaking :D but this kind of change is exactly what we need... but what do you think about my suggestion to touch the brackets too? (thinner, with standing as colour instead, perhaps different shapes?)

http://i.imgur.com/Dk5Nu.jpg

kinda like this picture?

Supercap nerf - change ewar immunity https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=194759 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934
Optimo Sebiestor
The New Eden School of trade
Organization of Skill Extracting Corporations
#220 - 2012-10-10 23:00:18 UTC
Big smile Looks awsome! but we need the visual timer on locking another vessel. I wouldnt mind having a visual on the targeted ships cap either! Twisted