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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

First post First post First post
Author
Gogela
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#101 - 2012-10-09 19:57:59 UTC
Bummer that they put you on the bench team avatar. I'm looking forward to your vision hitting TQ. I'll be around though... looking forward to seeing you achieve your vision! It sounds really cool...Big smile

Signatures should be used responsibly...

Anslo
Scope Works
#102 - 2012-10-09 20:13:04 UTC
I also demand that, with this things implementation, the ability to create a huge, buffed, dread locked, bad ass norse looking Minmatar to charge people with in station PvP.

Because there's only so many fights you can fight to DnB before you want to go person to person with someone to some viking metal. Twisted

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#103 - 2012-10-09 20:20:35 UTC
LtCol Laurentius wrote:
This thread was obviously thought to be controversial, so unifex had to come out and endorse it :)

CCP, I think you have the playerbase a bit wrong here. The majority of the playerbase is not opposed to avatar gameplay, in fact I think most of us think it would be awesome to have a seamless ship/avatar experience like the one portrayed in future vision and this year fanfest video.

What you delivered in Incarna wasnt avatar gameplay, and it was disapointing, but what made the playerbase RAGE was not this at all. It was 3rd party developer fees, PayToWin, the hilariously hopless NeX store, 1000 dollar pants - i.e. the feeling that you planned to monetize your playerbase, coupled with a certain "we wont listen unless you unsubscribe on us" email, that spraked the riots.

Dont confuse these two things. Incarna was dissapointing as hell compared to what players were expecting, but it was not what caused the BIG crisis.

The critical thing moving foreward will however be a question of resource allocation. You have done :18 months: on us before to develop Incarna with little to show for it, and I dont see the playerbase have that kind of patience again. So, if you are going to do this - and I actually really think you should - you cannot ignore the ship game in the meantime.

+1
There is a big difference between "ignoring the spaceship game" and and working on WiS. Obviously, given a fixed budget for developing new things, paying people to develop one feature will always mean there is less money for developing something else. To say "we will not develop WiS until it will not reduce effort placed on spaceships" means you will never develop it, because any money used to develop Wis could instead be used to hire different people who do additional work on spaceships.

But from the above many players want WiS in some form. What to do?

Assume that part of every subscription fee went to developing new features, maybe $2 a month. Now imagine that CCP allows us players to each vote on how our $2 is spent. Take the money voted for WiS, and spend it on that. All those players who do not want WiS would be absolutely sure that none of their money went to fund it.

But CCP does not need to actually implement such a voting system. Just put out a poll with the next news letter, and use that as a guide.

Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval.

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Anslo
Scope Works
#104 - 2012-10-09 20:22:47 UTC
^Pitch Bearded Norse-ish Minmatars for station combat first.

"GET CLOSER SO I CAN HIT THEM WITH MY LASER SWORD!!!!"

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Acac Sunflyier
The Dysfunctionals
Goonswarm Federation
#105 - 2012-10-09 20:23:07 UTC
So, from what Unifex just said, I'm going to guess that Winter 2012 and Summer 2013 is out of the question. Which means, I'm a little disappointed.
Lunaleil Fournier
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#106 - 2012-10-09 21:21:52 UTC
This EVA stuff all sounds exciting....once FIS (esp SOV, Lowsec, NPC 00, and POS') have been fixed. You made the correct decision in focusing on F.I.S. content. Thank you!
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#107 - 2012-10-09 21:25:36 UTC
I'm glad to have some clarity on the issue. The exploration content sounds awesome, and I like the general old-school horror theme that you're vulnerable and exploring a dark and dangerous landscape. I don't know if anyone at CCP has played Penumbra, but that general vibe would be amazing. Maybe have the courage to have things in there that are not necessary designed to be overcome, but avoided and routed around--when possible. If you think fast.

The two team limitation is an acceptable start, but for maximum mayhem you should consider finding ways to up that.

(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)

It makes sense that solving this problem makes social spaces and stations much, much easier by comparison. I'm glad you're leading with this, though. This promises to be fun.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#108 - 2012-10-09 21:48:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Quote:
Also, CCP, why do you develop prototypes of new features then pitch them to management? Management does not pay for them to be developed, we do. Pitch them to us, get our approval.


Vincent, if you'll think back, Torfi and a few others did broach the idea of developing Avatar game play along this line and asked for feed back. Based on that generally positive feed back they proceded from there to put together a plan and a demo that they could pitch to the rest of the management team... which obviously have to give the final approval.

Player input and feed back is extremely valuable, but you can't run a company by popular vote. It's nice in theory, but impractical in practice.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#109 - 2012-10-09 21:59:06 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
I'm glad to have some clarity on the issue. The exploration content sounds awesome, and I like the general old-school horror theme that you're vulnerable and exploring a dark and dangerous landscape. I don't know if anyone at CCP has played Penumbra, but that general vibe would be amazing. Maybe have the courage to have things in there that are not necessary designed to be overcome, but avoided and routed around--when possible. If you think fast.

The two team limitation is an acceptable start, but for maximum mayhem you should consider finding ways to up that.

(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)

It makes sense that solving this problem makes social spaces and stations much, much easier by comparison. I'm glad you're leading with this, though. This promises to be fun.


I am of the same mind, however the one thing that I think will have to be carefully considered is to what degree to make certain area's available only to groups as opposed to the single player.

For the most part, for better or for worse, a great deal (but certainly not all) of building materials acquisition in EVE is done by the solo player currently. However it would seem that a frequent theme in this Avatar based game play will be an environment so hostile (not counting opposing player involvement) that it will require a team to access certain area's/content (running remote repairers on each other, etc.).

I think that this will have to be handled with a delicate hand, and allow a (modest) living to be made by solo players, while the bigger rewards can be reaped by teams. And by bigger, I don't mean proportionately bigger. There is no incentive to go in as a team if you end up going home with the same amount of ISK in your pocket (as your share of the loot) as you would have taking the whole thing doing a lower payout site solo.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#110 - 2012-10-09 22:06:50 UTC
Dersen Lowery wrote:
(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)

Although it would be greatly amusing to see capsuleers just running around in their regular clothes soaking up radiation and toxic waste and not giving a damn because their human bodies are just disposable shells that can be trivially replaced at any time.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Jessy Berbers
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2012-10-09 22:55:43 UTC
Sounds like a great concept CCP, but ehm yeah we already kinda knew all about it, Though i do aprove ^^

Hire some more people to do the WiS gameplay, or outsource that specific expansion to some other company and check frequently to what they are doing, while you CCP keep working on spaceships like all the anti WiS people want you to do.

La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2012-10-09 23:07:01 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


How do you think it will work in the various security statuses?

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#113 - 2012-10-09 23:15:58 UTC
It's good to see some actual content for the avatars in the pipeline, as opposed to a room with a TV & a spaceship in the background that gets smaller as you walk towards it. If this is to become a reality down the track, are there any plans to optimise how it runs on lower end systems?

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CCP t0rfifrans
C C P
C C P Alliance
#114 - 2012-10-10 00:40:38 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


How do you think it will work in the various security statuses?

We actually didn't go that deep into that part of the design, the prototype we built focused on the minute by minute exploration, looting, overcoming obstacles and fighting turrets and random encounters of other players. It would vary in difficulty in risk, but one thing about EVE is that you are only ever fully safe when docked or logged off. Even mining in hisec is not without risk, as many can testify to. It can be annoying for some, but it adds so much more depth and dare I say it, verisimilitude to the experience of living in New Eden.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#115 - 2012-10-10 01:00:22 UTC
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Oh and to someone that asked if it can be safe. Sorry, nope. The EVA gameplay is not safe, it's as safe as going into a wormhole. That's also what makes it interesting.


How do you think it will work in the various security statuses?

We actually didn't go that deep into that part of the design, the prototype we built focused on the minute by minute exploration, looting, overcoming obstacles and fighting turrets and random encounters of other players. It would vary in difficulty in risk, but one thing about EVE is that you are only ever fully safe when docked or logged off. Even mining in hisec is not without risk, as many can testify to. It can be annoying for some, but it adds so much more depth and dare I say it, verisimilitude to the experience of living in New Eden.


Eventually I'd like to see things get to the point where even docked in High Sec you can at least still get (painfully, but harmlessly) punched in the face, docked in low sec (due to less strict weapons prohibitions on stations) you can still get knifed, and docked up in Null Sec you can get your head blown off.

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Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#116 - 2012-10-10 01:37:09 UTC
Looks like it's a ways away, but it is appreciated. I understand that a lot of EVE players really hate this idea or anything associated with it, but that doesn't account for all of us.

I almost had a thought that I may have more interesting things to do soon when I started reading, but after a little I realized it was very much in the undeveloped idea stage, and nowhere near planning stage. Ah well.. so it goes.

I really like the idea, and I'm glad it's more than mere meandering melancholy in a station. That would be pointless. Interesting briefly, but pointless. Smile
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Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2012-10-10 01:39:35 UTC
Now that team Avatar has come this far, CCP should in secret dedicate a full team of devs to making it a reality. Don't let anybody know! The masses must believe that team Avatar is still a small team lest they start shooting the poor statues in Jita. Please...think of the statues!

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#118 - 2012-10-10 01:49:49 UTC
Pak Narhoo wrote:
Good to see CCP is focusing its talents and not smearing them out over lord knows how many projects.


Sounds great tough! Big smile Meaningful avatar play.

Don't forget to use one of those bars you see/saw floating in some missions to put those in use as well, when ever you get to allocate the sources needed for this. When ever I ran into those I always thought of 'Porky's in space'. P


o.0 ..somehow, that is not my picture of EVE. Porky's in Space? I don't even know what that is.

Also, Missions are interesting and all, but dozens or even hundreds of randomly generic pleasure HUBs is sort of like dozens, if not hundreds of randomly seedy bars in the worst parts of town.

Not really very interesting, unless you want to watch some 6'4" 280 pound woman lay it to some random guy, then stomp his head into a curb. - happened outside the old arcade where I used to go when I was a kid, right across from the seediest pub in town. Wasn't very interesting.

More interesting was helping the Police follow the blood trail left by some moron who put his fist through the plate glass window of a restaurant after walking out of the same place at another time. It was late, I was young and adventurous, so I tracked the blood trail halfway across town for the Police in the middle of the night. Lost it just the other side of a park.

Yay.

You can see I really find that overwhelmingly fascinating now. Roll
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Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#119 - 2012-10-10 01:51:00 UTC
Well, this is disappointing. It appears as if it'll be years before we are able to do anything besides shoot at red crosses or flashing red boxes while zoomed out.

When I joined Eve I was greatly looking forward to Incarna (nee ambulation, WiS) and the ability to interact with others in my corp and alliance in shared meeting spaces, interacting with other players over games of chance in seedy bars, etc. After the perfect storm of Incarna performance problems, leaked memos, anger over microtransactions and the poorly thought out NeX store and the fallout that followed, CCP got frightened and swung the pendulum too far in the other direction (and in the process tossed those of us who were looking forward to avatars under the bus).

The hardcore Eve snobs can flame all they like but, fact of the matter is that most people find it easier to identify with a humanoid form as their in-game representation rather than a ship model.

As a roleplayer who's regularly subjected to ridicule as is I'm finding it harder and harder to justify spending my limited discretionary income on a game whose playerbase totally disrespects me and a developer who apparently feels the same.

Since it seems that CCP truly only listens to pitchfork wielding mobs who unsubscribe perhaps it's time that those of us who are growing weary of having our wants placed on the back burner again and again to emulate those mobs.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#120 - 2012-10-10 02:27:02 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Dersen Lowery wrote:
(And, to answer something from Scatim Helicon's good post, I do not want Dersen traipsing around Sleeper ruins in an open leather jacket. That will shatter immersion. Some kind of environmental suit is obvious--especially if they could be dyed or badged in some way so that it was possible to recognize your team.)

Although it would be greatly amusing to see capsuleers just running around in their regular clothes soaking up radiation and toxic waste and not giving a damn because their human bodies are just disposable shells that can be trivially replaced at any time.


Yes, it would. In fact, in that case you'd have an additional variable: how long your body (including implants) lasts under extremely harsh conditions. In fact, I don't see the suits preventing that damage, just mitigating it, and hiding it behind a full body suit so that CCP doesn't have to render the radiation burns on top of everything else.

I was assuming that there wasn't even air to breathe, or air pressure, and the body would last about as long as it does when it's blown out of a pod.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!