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Team Avatar and the future of our prototype

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Author
Reiisha
#3901 - 2014-05-14 13:36:22 UTC
I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Antihrist Pripravnik
Scorpion Road Industry
#3902 - 2014-05-14 14:22:08 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.

As long as they don't leave the station in a Hulk or a pimped CNR/Golem and meet the real EVE Lol
Noel Wolfisheim
Project Blackwolf
#3903 - 2014-05-14 14:45:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Noel Wolfisheim
Reiisha wrote:
I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.

Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?
Beofryn Sedorak
#3904 - 2014-05-14 15:16:44 UTC
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:
Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?


Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really?
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#3905 - 2014-05-14 15:22:13 UTC
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:
Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?


Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really?

may appeal. may be lost in the huge number of conventional mmos that already offer this. and certainly alienate the niche crowd that eve online has made its base. which is why walking in stations is dead and buried.

let me repeat that, although i know the more deluded posters in this thread will never be willing to accept it: walking in stations is dead and buried
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
#3906 - 2014-05-14 15:28:10 UTC
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:
Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?


Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really?


The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.




There's a million angry citizens looking down their tubes..at me.

Job Valador
Professional Amateurs
#3907 - 2014-05-14 15:50:04 UTC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grbSQ6O6kbs

"The stone exhibited a profound lack of movement."

Noel Wolfisheim
Project Blackwolf
#3908 - 2014-05-14 16:24:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Noel Wolfisheim
Doc Fury wrote:

The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.

Walk in Station is a decent idea I enjoy thinking about too, but I don't think in reality it is in any way applicable. There's the possibility that integrating avatar-centric gameplay changes into EVE Online would segregate the players between smaller communities within the broader community, the content for the Walk in Station would mostly be filler with little prospect of integration with EVE Online as a whole and it could also in the worst case lead the players all the avatar features brought away after they do not find the rest of the game enjoyable.

The content that Walk in Station promised was mostly mini-games and content that in general would not affect the whole mission, mining and combat that happens in EVE Online. What that means is that we would have this chunk of gameplay changes for our avatars that do not serve a realistic purpose into the gameplay. Meanwhile this content could help with breaking the loop from doing missions, mining, industry and combat that someone may be doing in the game on a regular basis it doesn't automatically mean that the work needed to achieve this is going to actually benefit the game or the players because the purpose of EVE Online is beyond what Walk in Station could bring into the gameplay. Hence the content that Walk in Station may bring is something that could phase itself out due to its very nature; as something essentially different from the game's nature.

Now, this new set of avatar features could bring a new number of players, or returning players, but now imagine that you come back to the game, and you try all the features that we know Walk in Stations could have offered; the content itself is not essential to the game, nor it would bring as much reward or entertainment compared to the traditional content offered by the game as its nature would be to support the existing content. Players who come or return into EVE Online to try these new features out would most likely, in the worst-case scenario get bored and leave the game.

Players would also become more segregated because of the features brought from Walk in Station; those that want to play just for the features recently added by CCP using the features amply, those that accept those features and use them on a low or regular basis and a number of people who refute the features and do not use them at all. Seeing how the community is already segregated depending on the player's interests, such as being in High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec or Wormhole space further separation of the community might harm it on the long term as the arguments about what affects what and how with each and every patch would get even more chaotic in the case that Walk in Stations integrated meaningful gameplay that is relevant with the rest of EVE Online.

The ideas, and the possibilities for Walk in Station are many, but in all honesty we can see how as a concept it's not what could fit well with EVE Online, and even in the case the means were found to integrate Walk in Station there's doubt on whether it would truly engage with players or not.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3909 - 2014-05-14 16:58:27 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Beofryn Sedorak wrote:
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:
Where do you get this, please explain how adding fully functional avatars and customization would mean the player base increases drastically?


Do you really need someone to explain to you that appealing to a broader and/or different demographic will appeal to a broader and/or different demographic? Really?

may appeal. may be lost in the huge number of conventional mmos that already offer this. and certainly alienate the niche crowd that eve online has made its base. which is why walking in stations is dead and buried.

let me repeat that, although i know the more deluded posters in this thread will never be willing to accept it: walking in stations is dead and buried


Not really on the "may" part.

Simply go to any website and look for advertising about this game. What does it show? Avatars to the foreground, spaceships to the backdrop.

You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers.

As for "barbies in space" - not my thing but it was promised long before I joined this game.

Whether you like it or not, CCP did promise to deliver it. If they don't - it's no big to me. If they do - I won't gripe, they promised it. I'd advise if they do that you get over whining about it.

That is what a lot of such posts read like - whines about the idea that someone gets what was promised that you don't find of interest - like "screw nullsec - the blue doughnut doesn't need anything else." and the like. If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens.

IMO they should flesh it out more for those who like it and have been waiting more years than I've been playing (going on 5 years now). Especially with all the other stuff that's been done that wasn't promised like this part was.
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
#3910 - 2014-05-14 18:43:15 UTC
Mocam wrote:
You don't shift to that style of presentation unless that is the more appealing aspect to those you are trying to draw as new customers.

advertisments that feature eyes or faces are more effective. at getting looked at.

Quote:
If fixes or adjustments come up to a part of the game that doesn't interest me, it happens.

but if a new feature comes up that's entirely undercooked, unusable by a good proportion of players, unlikely to deliver any meaningful content in years if ever and at the expense of development/iteration of the content the vast majority of the niche userbase enjoys, a whole lot of people unsub and shoot a statue. then development gets delayed indefinitely

~i advise you get over whining about it~
Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
#3911 - 2014-05-14 19:27:07 UTC
This thread has too much trolling and not enough profit.

Hey Benny Ohu, I'll make a 1 billion isk wager to you if you're willing to accept it that within the next three years there is a WiS game announced by CCP that serves as a central nexus between EVE/Valkyrie/Legion (or dust, if Legion somehow doesn't happen).

And because I said this on the forums, you know its not a scam.
Reiisha
#3912 - 2014-05-15 08:22:56 UTC
Noel Wolfisheim wrote:
Doc Fury wrote:

The problem is no one has yet been able to flesh-out anything these mythical new players will actually *do* in EVE (as Avatars) that would attract them to the game, that would also have a impact on the game overall. Playing dress-up, gambling or playing mini-games as an avatar does not have any effect or consequences on the rest of the game or players.

Walk in Station is a decent idea I enjoy thinking about too, but I don't think in reality it is in any way applicable. There's the possibility that integrating avatar-centric gameplay changes into EVE Online would segregate the players between smaller communities within the broader community, the content for the Walk in Station would mostly be filler with little prospect of integration with EVE Online as a whole and it could also in the worst case lead the players all the avatar features brought away after they do not find the rest of the game enjoyable.

The content that Walk in Station promised was mostly mini-games and content that in general would not affect the whole mission, mining and combat that happens in EVE Online. What that means is that we would have this chunk of gameplay changes for our avatars that do not serve a realistic purpose into the gameplay. Meanwhile this content could help with breaking the loop from doing missions, mining, industry and combat that someone may be doing in the game on a regular basis it doesn't automatically mean that the work needed to achieve this is going to actually benefit the game or the players because the purpose of EVE Online is beyond what Walk in Station could bring into the gameplay. Hence the content that Walk in Station may bring is something that could phase itself out due to its very nature; as something essentially different from the game's nature.

Now, this new set of avatar features could bring a new number of players, or returning players, but now imagine that you come back to the game, and you try all the features that we know Walk in Stations could have offered; the content itself is not essential to the game, nor it would bring as much reward or entertainment compared to the traditional content offered by the game as its nature would be to support the existing content. Players who come or return into EVE Online to try these new features out would most likely, in the worst-case scenario get bored and leave the game.

Players would also become more segregated because of the features brought from Walk in Station; those that want to play just for the features recently added by CCP using the features amply, those that accept those features and use them on a low or regular basis and a number of people who refute the features and do not use them at all. Seeing how the community is already segregated depending on the player's interests, such as being in High Sec, Low Sec, Null Sec or Wormhole space further separation of the community might harm it on the long term as the arguments about what affects what and how with each and every patch would get even more chaotic in the case that Walk in Stations integrated meaningful gameplay that is relevant with the rest of EVE Online.

The ideas, and the possibilities for Walk in Station are many, but in all honesty we can see how as a concept it's not what could fit well with EVE Online, and even in the case the means were found to integrate Walk in Station there's doubt on whether it would truly engage with players or not.


The value of having a relatable human(oid) character you can actually see and walk around with in a game that's otherwise incredibly impersonal and removed from the player is immense. WiS would work with only having a social component to avatar play in the beginning, additional gameplay is not necessary - Having a way to leave the ship and interact with other players adds a certain level of immersion and the ability to connect to your avatar in a way that's currently not possible.

This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Inari Visas
Aliastra
#3913 - 2014-05-15 08:38:43 UTC
Just making ship spinning obsolete is a positive I think every player will love. Having us interact with each other, like sitting in a bar talking. I think this will make for a unique experience that is currently not available anywhere (I think).
Evelyn Meiyi
Corvidae Trading and Holding
#3914 - 2014-05-15 08:51:00 UTC
Reiisha wrote:

This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.


I'll step in and reinforce the above, as well as add my .02:

Star Trek Online -- ship/station interiors shortly after launch.

Star Citizen -- promises accessible station interiors.

Stellarbrink -- Kickstarter project, already has support for interiors (and easily-customizable ones, at that).

All of those are less than six years old.

EVE is eleven years old, and hasn't yet done what at least three other younger spaceship games have done, or are promising to do.

The unfortunate truth for all you WiS-haters is that no matter how loudly you whine about 'spaceship barbie', ten more years of the 'same thing EVE's always been' will not sustain a playing population.
Reiisha
#3915 - 2014-05-15 08:56:11 UTC
Evelyn Meiyi wrote:
Reiisha wrote:

This might seem like an incredibly minute and trivial issue, but i wouldn't underestimate the advantages a feature like this will bring.


I'll step in and reinforce the above, as well as add my .02:

Star Trek Online -- ship/station interiors shortly after launch.

Star Citizen -- promises accessible station interiors.

Stellarbrink -- Kickstarter project, already has support for interiors (and easily-customizable ones, at that).

All of those are less than six years old.

EVE is eleven years old, and hasn't yet done what at least three other younger spaceship games have done, or are promising to do.

The unfortunate truth for all you WiS-haters is that no matter how loudly you whine about 'spaceship barbie', ten more years of the 'same thing EVE's always been' will not sustain a playing population.


The funny thing is, the people who complain about WiS usually think that putting in a new lightbulb goes 10 times faster if you do it with 10 people.

"Because WiS will take away from development of the space game!"

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Erica Dusette
Division 13
#3916 - 2014-05-15 08:58:58 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
WiS would work with only having a social component to avatar play in the beginning, additional gameplay is not necessary - Having a way to leave the ship and interact with other players adds a certain level of immersion and the ability to connect to your avatar in a way that's currently not possible.

This, a thousand times. Big smile

I understand how promoting Avatar content via some "meaningful gameplay" is the smartest way to look at it's potential development if you want to win over the majority of the playerbase, but me personally I couldn't give 2 sh*ts about a gameplay aspect and would thoroughly enjoy the mere social aspect.

Jack Miton > you be nice or you're sleeping on the couch again!

Part-Time Wormhole Pirate Full-Time Supermodel

worмнole dιary + cнaracтer вιoѕвσss

chaos666wraith
Cyber Chaos Crew
#3917 - 2014-05-15 09:23:12 UTC  |  Edited by: chaos666wraith
Greetings meatbags,

I'd like to remind you what real EVE developers have to say about this matter and not what some pubbie bad's do.

CCP t0rfifrans wrote:
Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people. Indeed they did start out like that, but as technology evolved, they become something much bigger. We hope you guys stay with us long enough for that dream to materialize.


I now have also uploaded this video into my Solid State Drive for future visions and memories.

Be well.

CyberChaosCrewTV

Saying that EVE is just about spaceships, is a bit like saying that phones should only be about making voice phone calls one on one with other people.

raven666wings
Cyber Chaos Crew
#3918 - 2014-05-15 11:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: raven666wings
Benny Ohu wrote:
walking in stations is dead and buried


I was also dead once but Tribal Liberation Force brought me back. Now I'm smarter, faster and stronger.
molly666trillions
Cyber Chaos Crew
#3919 - 2014-05-15 11:16:11 UTC  |  Edited by: molly666trillions
Benny Ohu wrote:
walking in stations is dead and buried

My siberian husky and german shepherd mixed race companion has this instinct to go hunting chickens on other people's farms, even after I fed her.

But she doesn't eat them right away. She guts them with the teeth and lets their entrails hanging out, then digs a hole and buries them with their yellow feet sticking out the ground. Only after a couple of days when they are a bit cooked does she go dig em up and eat them.

See? Dead and buried things aren't always bad for everyone Blink

CyberChaosCrewTV

Offering a (small) ISK bonus for doing community work in a provable way is from my personal perspective fine.

Tomiko Kawase
Perkone
#3920 - 2014-05-15 14:06:57 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
I think a lot of people underestimate the amount of new players that would come when avatars are added. That added layer of customization, interaction and immersion could help a lot in bringing in new players and keeping them around.


I'm here because of Incarna and I don't plan on leaving anytime soon. I don't like where they were taking WiS and I'm glad that got scrapped. I would like it revisited with actual (read: fun) gameplay, though.