These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Specific Examples of Where Risk Should Be Inserted Successfully Into High-sec

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#141 - 2012-10-09 11:47:24 UTC
Andski wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Why not make null more interesting and enjoyable?


How do you suggest that we go about that?


Nerf Local.

For starters.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#142 - 2012-10-09 11:54:11 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
That's been done in many threads.
If by ”many” you mean “none”, then yes.
Hypercake Mix
#143 - 2012-10-09 11:54:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
You asked for a simple (pressing a button), careful (guaranteed safety) method of keeping safe.

If that doesn't suit you, then Fit a Tank. Tanking a Hulk made it unprofitable to gank you, but cost you one or both of your low slots (depending on paranoia level). If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.

You missed the high-attention part. D-scan makes sense in a tense combat-rich environment where hitting that scan button can flow naturally into the rhythm. D-scan spam in mining is like attentively taking notes on watching paint dry.

And fitting and flying Hulks in that manner didn't suit me. When that crap was happening, I sold my Hulk, bought a Gila, and lived easily off my surplus.
After barge changes, I bought a Skiff, AB fit it, and now I mine for replacement drones, ammo, and whatever when I feel like it, blazing around at 700m/s kiting around my own mining drones because I can.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#144 - 2012-10-09 11:56:37 UTC
Quote:


I see a distinct lack of child and spousal abuse in that bit.

In the great words of Bane. "You are just going to have to imagine the beatings".
Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#145 - 2012-10-09 11:58:02 UTC
Oh, I see that this has devolved into another miner qq thread. My apologies.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#146 - 2012-10-09 12:04:18 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Gankers are neither stupid nor randomly vindictive. Without the possibility (not guarantee, a tanked Hulk wasn't profitable pre-buff) of a profitable gank, industrialized ganking is impossible. Without industrialized ganking, suicide ganking is not a significant risk to miners.

It's not even that to be honest. A small loss, even a moderate loss, is alright. But now it either takes like a minimum of half a dozen Tornados (assuming optimal conditions) to kill the average barge, or two dozen people in destroyers. We could live with ganking not actually resulting in any profit, but dropping over half a billion or needing that many people is ridiculous.

The bears claim that it's still possible to gank, literally. Yes, it is. But the barriers to entry are so high that no one would bother aside from some special edge cases. CCP could buff barges to capital health levels tomorrow, and these people would still continue to say that it's possible to gank. They won't ever let go of that argument since they're so used to thinking in absolutes.



Strawman much?
I don't recall finding Null Sec PvP profitable. Ok, maybe if all you do is massive blob warfare where your opponent has no chance to even fight back you might make a profit in 'just' PvP.
As for the 'two dozen people in destroyers'.... LMAO.
A single rifter took half my tank off in a Tanked Retriever.
Hulks got what, maybe a 5% buff base? If that much.
Macks got about a 25% buff above hulks from what I saw.

So..... if you don't fit a tank on them but go for max yield, you need maybe 1 more destroyer for a hulk or mack than you used to.
Or are you complaining because..... they are actually fitting tanks onto hulks & macks now?
sonny2dap
Zolo Cartel
#147 - 2012-10-09 12:13:33 UTC
on topic I would like to see NPC's worth a damn spawn in high sec belts, then you could have it so that a mining fleet needs to bring security when mining, I'm talking battle ships and battle cruiser NPC spawns with tackle support, means another profession for combat pilot, as the rats will have little to no bounty so the miners will have to pay security guards, plus it opens up options for scamming, and if you scale the NPC's properly you could have it so that mining in 0.5-0.7 system require at least 3-5 battleships maybe more and a decrease in difficulty above 0.7, so that unprepared fleets go pop.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-10-09 12:24:46 UTC
Tippia wrote:
If by ”many” you mean “none”, then yes.


Can you prove it's possible?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#149 - 2012-10-09 12:28:43 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can you prove it's possible?
Non sequitur.

But yes, it's possible by default that none have been posted.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-10-09 12:29:52 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can you prove it's possible?
Non sequitur.

But yes, it's possible by default that none have been posted.


Can you prove it is possible to destroy tanked Hulk?
Pipa Porto
#151 - 2012-10-09 12:30:31 UTC
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
You asked for a simple (pressing a button), careful (guaranteed safety) method of keeping safe.

If that doesn't suit you, then Fit a Tank. Tanking a Hulk made it unprofitable to gank you, but cost you one or both of your low slots (depending on paranoia level). If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.

You missed the high-attention part. D-scan makes sense in a tense combat-rich environment where hitting that scan button can flow naturally into the rhythm. D-scan spam in mining is like attentively taking notes on watching paint dry.

And fitting and flying Hulks in that manner didn't suit me. When that crap was happening, I sold my Hulk, bought a Gila, and lived easily off my surplus.
After barge changes, I bought a Skiff, AB fit it, and now I mine for replacement drones, ammo, and whatever when I feel like it, blazing around at 700m/s kiting around my own mining drones because I can.


So you adapted. Good for you. We're talking about the people who didn't adapt. The people who, when faced with the choice of tank, pay attention, or lose their ship resoundingly chose loose their ship, then whined that they didn't like their choice.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#152 - 2012-10-09 12:32:07 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can you prove it is possible to destroy tanked Hulk?
Strawman and onus probandi. So how about you prove it instead, since it's your job to do so.
Pipa Porto
#153 - 2012-10-09 12:32:19 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.


That's been done in many threads.

You ignore those killmails or you just say damage taken is lower than 30k so it's not good enough.


If it has been, then I'm sure you can list them or post the killmails.

I have yet to see one single killmail of a properly tanked Hulk lost to suicide gank. The only killmails people ever linked were in no sense of the word properly tanked.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#154 - 2012-10-09 12:32:23 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:



Strawman much?
I don't recall finding Null Sec PvP profitable. Ok, maybe if all you do is massive blob warfare where your opponent has no chance to even fight back you might make a profit in 'just' PvP.
As for the 'two dozen people in destroyers'.... LMAO.
A single rifter took half my tank off in a Tanked Retriever.
Hulks got what, maybe a 5% buff base? If that much.
Macks got about a 25% buff above hulks from what I saw.

So..... if you don't fit a tank on them but go for max yield, you need maybe 1 more destroyer for a hulk or mack than you used to.
Or are you complaining because..... they are actually fitting tanks onto hulks & macks now?

The two dosen number is indeed pants on head. The reason why gankers have stopped going for Macks is because they are unprofitable to gank now even with no tank fitted.
Pipa Porto
#155 - 2012-10-09 12:33:25 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can you prove it's possible?
Non sequitur.

But yes, it's possible by default that none have been posted.


Can you prove it is possible to destroy tanked Hulk?


Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.


That's been done in many threads.

You ignore those killmails or you just say damage taken is lower than 30k so it's not good enough.


You already claimed that it was.

Stop Lying, Jorma.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#156 - 2012-10-09 12:36:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Can you prove it is possible to destroy tanked Hulk?
Strawman and onus probandi. So how about you prove it instead, since it's your job to do so.


I'm not a ganker like you.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#157 - 2012-10-09 12:38:59 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I'm not a ganker like you.
Non sequitur and red herring.

So you agree then, that you just invented things as you always do since — as usual — you cannot offer any the slightest shred of proof for your claim.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#158 - 2012-10-09 12:42:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Non sequitur and red herring.

So you agree then, that you just invented things as you always do since — as usual — you cannot offer any the slightest shred of proof for your claim.


I'm not the one who keeps repeating "tanked Hulk can't be destroyed in hisec"... Roll
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#159 - 2012-10-09 12:45:58 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Non sequitur and red herring.

So you agree then, that you just invented things as you always do since — as usual — you cannot offer any the slightest shred of proof for your claim.


I'm not the one who keeps repeating "tanked Hulk can't be destroyed in hisec"... Roll


Only you say things like that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#160 - 2012-10-09 12:45:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
I'm not the one who keeps repeating "tanked Hulk can't be destroyed in hisec"... Roll
…nor is anyone else (except you), but you are the one making claims you cannot prove.

So once again, your fallacies are piling up quite nicely and end up showing that you are pretty much incapable of posting anything that is even remotely close to something that might, with a downright enormous amount of luck, be considered to have a minute chance of being even partially correct.