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Specific Examples of Where Risk Should Be Inserted Successfully Into High-sec

First post
Author
Hypercake Mix
#121 - 2012-10-09 09:09:49 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Like using the D-Scan to look for flocks of Destroyers incoming?

Combining a relatively low-action activity such as mining with a relatively high-attention counter-measure such as spamming D-scan? That's what leads people into questioning why they're mining and then they go to level 4 missions or quit. That sort of mining sucks to do, no matter how high mineral prices are.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#122 - 2012-10-09 09:11:38 UTC
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Honestly up until now been a lowbie 'carebare' myself... more because I've been wanting to get a handle on the game before plunging into any sort of PvP myself. But last couple of days been giving serious thought to exploring or even outright moving into lowsec as a pirate or bounty hunter.

No matter what the bleeding-heart carebear apologists tell you, that is objectively the wrong way to play. You fall into this mental trap where every day it's "well, I better get some more money first" or "well, I better train up some more skills first." It will never end. I've killed bears who played for 5-7 years who still had that attitude. And I don't think I've ever met a person who actually went through with the transition after such a long period of time. I'm sure they're out there, but I'd still rather bet on winning the lotto.

Seriously, if you don't get over the fear of losing a frigate now, it will be much worse later on when someone doesn't give you a choice about losing a faction-fit navy mission-running BS. Seriously, I've given old players their first losses like that, and they ended up quitting the game despite having so much cash and assets in reserve.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#123 - 2012-10-09 09:12:09 UTC
Gogela wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Shocked

Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all.


Wow, you sound scary good at PvP.
I am sure that all of empire will shut down because of your declaration of war against high sec corps.
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#124 - 2012-10-09 09:14:35 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Honestly up until now been a lowbie 'carebare' myself... more because I've been wanting to get a handle on the game before plunging into any sort of PvP myself. But last couple of days been giving serious thought to exploring or even outright moving into lowsec as a pirate or bounty hunter.

No matter what the bleeding-heart carebear apologists tell you, that is objectively the wrong way to play. You fall into this mental trap where every day it's "well, I better get some more money first" or "well, I better train up some more skills first." It will never end. I've killed bears who played for 5-7 years who still had that attitude. And I don't think I've ever met a person who actually went through with the transition after such a long period of time. I'm sure they're out there, but I'd still rather bet on winning the lotto.

Seriously, if you don't get over the fear of losing a frigate now, it will be much worse later on when someone doesn't give you a choice about losing a faction-fit navy mission-running BS. Seriously, I've given old players their first losses like that, and they ended up quitting the game despite having so much cash and assets in reserve.


Ahh, was talking more about learning the basics of the game. Not afraid of losing stuff I can easily replace... just not wanting to die is pure ignorance about the game... but have learned enough to start seriously considering it now.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#125 - 2012-10-09 09:17:07 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Highsec mining definatly needs some sort of risk injected into it. As it stands right now there is no real threat to them.


Lol.

Go ahead and list them.


Right, and all the freighters being lost in Uedama to your corp (a goon corp), they are a figment of the API's imagination.
And Hulkageddon, another goon treat, that never happened.
Nor the ice interdictions, nor the weekend attack in Jita.

And of course, the new AI that will totally wipe out drones as PVE platform, that will have no effect on high sec.

A good laywer, or in this case, null sec propagandist, should never ask a question he does not already know the answer to.
You are clearly bad at both.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#126 - 2012-10-09 09:17:38 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Gogela wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:

It's hilarious because they get what they want, so clearly CCP thinks they're pretty important. Shocked

Something needs to be done. I blame myself. When the new wardec mechanic hit I was going to go after a bunch of soft empire corps just to ruin them, but ended up going after a hard target which turned out to be fruitless. Then work.. then a market project... always some excuse. When my market stuff wraps about winter-expansion time I'm going into the empire sand-castle kicking business. To the NPC corps with you all.


Wow, you sound scary good at PvP.
I am sure that all of empire will shut down because of your declaration of war against high sec corps.

You'd be surprised at how effective people like ourselves are at what we do. There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration. Our corporation alone has over the years disbanded a few dozen corporations/alliances, and has resulted in hundreds of people dropping their subscriptions. I have a few huge notepad files in which I save the best rage, with people calling us "internet Al Qaeda" and such and hoping that CCP would crash and burn as their last act of defiance before logging out for the final time. And we're not even the biggest fish on the block, not by a long shot.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Pipa Porto
#127 - 2012-10-09 09:19:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Hypercake Mix wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Like using the D-Scan to look for flocks of Destroyers incoming?

Combining a relatively low-action activity such as mining with a relatively high-attention counter-measure such as spamming D-scan? That's what leads people into questioning why they're mining and then they go to level 4 missions or quit. That sort of mining sucks to do, no matter how high mineral prices are.


You asked for a simple (pressing a button), careful (guaranteed safety) method of keeping safe.

If that doesn't suit you, then Fit a Tank. Tanking a Hulk made it unprofitable to gank you, but cost you one or both of your low slots (depending on paranoia level). If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#128 - 2012-10-09 09:20:56 UTC
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Ahhh, perhaps you misinterpreted =/= as something other than "Does not equal".

You're right, they don't face any meaningful risks, and that IMO, is a problem.


Nope, I was talking about your second equation which implied that any sort of kill is guaranteed to be easy.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#129 - 2012-10-09 09:21:10 UTC
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
Honestly up until now been a lowbie 'carebare' myself... more because I've been wanting to get a handle on the game before plunging into any sort of PvP myself. But last couple of days been giving serious thought to exploring or even outright moving into lowsec as a pirate or bounty hunter.

No matter what the bleeding-heart carebear apologists tell you, that is objectively the wrong way to play. You fall into this mental trap where every day it's "well, I better get some more money first" or "well, I better train up some more skills first." It will never end. I've killed bears who played for 5-7 years who still had that attitude. And I don't think I've ever met a person who actually went through with the transition after such a long period of time. I'm sure they're out there, but I'd still rather bet on winning the lotto.

Seriously, if you don't get over the fear of losing a frigate now, it will be much worse later on when someone doesn't give you a choice about losing a faction-fit navy mission-running BS. Seriously, I've given old players their first losses like that, and they ended up quitting the game despite having so much cash and assets in reserve.


Ahh, was talking more about learning the basics of the game. Not afraid of losing stuff I can easily replace... just not wanting to die is pure ignorance about the game... but have learned enough to start seriously considering it now.

I'm serious, no level of knowledge is too small to start pvping. Also, you'll learn much faster actually doing it, than just doing bear stuff and reading the forums. You'll be running out of hard drive space in your brain trying to process all the information. Even now, after eight years, I still get stuck in processing mode after each fight, even after winning, for hours thinking stuff like "okay, why did he take me to quarter shields, that should have been impossible given the scenario, time to look at combat logs."

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Pipa Porto
#130 - 2012-10-09 09:22:18 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Highsec mining definatly needs some sort of risk injected into it. As it stands right now there is no real threat to them.


Lol.

Go ahead and list them.


Right, and all the freighters being lost in Uedama to your corp (a goon corp), they are a figment of the API's imagination.
And Hulkageddon, another goon treat, that never happened.
Nor the ice interdictions, nor the weekend attack in Jita.

And of course, the new AI that will totally wipe out drones as PVE platform, that will have no effect on high sec.

A good laywer, or in this case, null sec propagandist, should never ask a question he does not already know the answer to.
You are clearly bad at both.


So which one of those (aside from the Ice Interdictions which preceded the buff) are risks that Miners face?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#131 - 2012-10-09 09:42:30 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You'd be surprised at how effective people like ourselves are at what we do. There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration. Our corporation alone has over the years disbanded a few dozen corporations/alliances, and has resulted in hundreds of people dropping their subscriptions. I have a few huge notepad files in which I save the best rage, with people calling us "internet Al Qaeda" and such and hoping that CCP would crash and burn as their last act of defiance before logging out for the final time. And we're not even the biggest fish on the block, not by a long shot.


Well, all 9 of you must be truly deadly to wipe out so many high sec corps.
It is going to be such a shame when you won't be able to use out of corp alt logistics anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to drive people from the game with harsh language on the forums.

BTW, just looked up your war history.
Indeed, you do love your wars.
But given that 4 of the 5 wars you are currently in are mutual, it doesn't appear that you have many people terrified.

But you keep on your crusade to wipe out high sec.
I am sure that if you are all the other null sec zealots are successful (outside and inside of CCP), the investors in CCP will be thrilled with the "balancing" of the subscription base.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#132 - 2012-10-09 09:53:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Destiny Corrupted
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:

You'd be surprised at how effective people like ourselves are at what we do. There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration. Our corporation alone has over the years disbanded a few dozen corporations/alliances, and has resulted in hundreds of people dropping their subscriptions. I have a few huge notepad files in which I save the best rage, with people calling us "internet Al Qaeda" and such and hoping that CCP would crash and burn as their last act of defiance before logging out for the final time. And we're not even the biggest fish on the block, not by a long shot.


Well, all 9 of you must be truly deadly to wipe out so many high sec corps.
It is going to be such a shame when you won't be able to use out of corp alt logistics anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to drive people from the game with harsh language on the forums.

BTW, just looked up your war history.
Indeed, you do love your wars.
But given that 4 of the 5 wars you are currently in are mutual, it doesn't appear that you have many people terrified.

But you keep on your crusade to wipe out high sec.
I am sure that if you are all the other null sec zealots are successful (outside and inside of CCP), the investors in CCP will be thrilled with the "balancing" of the subscription base.

We're pretty good, yeah. I'm not going to try acting all bashful and act like it's a mighty compliment; we know what we're doing. But I'll be honest with you: at least half of the time, doing this is so easy that at no point are we in any real danger. To that end, we very rarely use neutral RR, usually only when we're significantly outnumbered or need insurance against the possibility of enemies bringing in neutral aid of their own. You can't just lump people with certain playing styles into one group. There are people who always use RR, and people who never use it. Just like there are miners who were very much agaist the barge EHP buffs.

The mutual wars, by the way, are due to a corporation joining Dec Shield in order to shed the war and allow Dec Shield to give us a permanent war. Terror was the reason why they joined Dec Shield. You can find more information about Dec Shield's current agenda here.

The Dec Shield thing is one of the reasons why the war mechanic is so gutted, buy the way.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#133 - 2012-10-09 10:31:40 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Highsec mining definatly needs some sort of risk injected into it. As it stands right now there is no real threat to them.


Lol.

Go ahead and list them.


Right, and all the freighters being lost in Uedama to your corp (a goon corp), they are a figment of the API's imagination.
And Hulkageddon, another goon treat, that never happened.
Nor the ice interdictions, nor the weekend attack in Jita.

And of course, the new AI that will totally wipe out drones as PVE platform, that will have no effect on high sec.

A good laywer, or in this case, null sec propagandist, should never ask a question he does not already know the answer to.
You are clearly bad at both.

When did freighters gain the ability to fit mining lasers?
Also hulkageddon and both ice interdictions happened before the barge buff. We are in a different world now and pulling off a month long war on miners is just not afforable now. The AI update will also not impact miners as the belt rats will be just as weak as they are now.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#134 - 2012-10-09 10:56:36 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration.


This is definitely what CCP should be encouraging.

I'm surprised marketing hasn't latched on to it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#135 - 2012-10-09 11:06:51 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration.


This is definitely what CCP should be encouraging.

I'm surprised marketing hasn't latched on to it.

They did. One of the trailers was a nub getting his revenge by joining an alliance that ganked him and stealing everything they own and shutting dow their pos network.
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
Senpai's Afterschool Anime and Gaming Club
#136 - 2012-10-09 11:07:41 UTC
Malphilos wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration.


This is definitely what CCP should be encouraging.

I'm surprised marketing hasn't latched on to it.

Don't worry, it happens in other games too. You know things are going well when your raid leader suddenly goes afk and you hear the sound of furniture breaking and a woman screaming after the 47th wipe on the easy boss in the raid.

I wrote some true EVE stories! And no, they're not of the generic "my 0.0 alliance had lots of 0.0 fleets and took a lot of 0.0 space" sort. Check them out here:

https://truestories.eveonline.com/users/2074-destiny-corrupted

Matriarch Prime
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#137 - 2012-10-09 11:39:31 UTC
First, I like that the OP posted specific examples, with your reasoning behind them. I would more would do the same in this thread.

I can't really speak to null/low because that isn't how I play. I'm not a forum alt, this is my main. I know its sad. (tear) I play a much different eve that most others play. EvE isn't my only game, but I play off and on as my schedule allows. Most people say that the vast majority of NPC corp members are null alts. Maybe that's true, but most of the active players that I see are new or play much like I do. This is a perception, and my best guess, there is no use in debating it, because it is an opinion without any hard data to back it up.

I don't see anything wrong with improving smart bombs, they are supposed to be smart after all. They've been killing players since they were introduced. I don't think that equipping aoe modules should be liability in high sec. It seems simple enough for them not to hit neutral targets.

I can't keep up with the game constantly, though I do try, but it seems to me that if people are concerned mission payouts and the isk faucets they are, that mission payout and even rat bounties could be dynamically allocated to adjust for more population. The more popular a mission hib becomes, the less it pays per mission. This encourages mission runners to move to new areas, if the scalar for rewards had more priority for lower security and underutilized systems, as would make sense for a faction space wishing to expand its lawful sovereignty, then over times you'd see more players spreading to low/null. Mission agents would probably have to be decoupled stations to make them possible otherwise, the "mission roam" would be hard to do with a specific faction.

This had the added benefit of spreading the load on server nodes and reducing payouts across thew board as some players will not move and increasing ship loss for those that do. It gives more opportunity for pvp in null against mission runners. But it doesn't concentrate the mission runners to certain system, which would make those system a unplayable due to pvp, since pvper could just go to one system and be assured targets, and they'd still have to put together an operation involving probing to be efficient about it.

I know the missions do some of this, but I propose making it more responsive and dynamic than it currently is.

I get some players will never move around, but some is better than the pretty much none that currently exists. And given enough visibility, probably though a mission search window with information on payout multipliers or average isk per mission for systems, and an aggressive enough multiplier for lower security. I think you'll see more players than you've seen in the past.

I like big guns. I can not lie. You other suckas can't deny. When I warp in, with an itty bity sig, with an arty in your face, you get sprung. You want to pull out your debuffs, 'cause you want to loot my stuff...deep, in a worm with nary, an escape but you can't stop staring. 'Cause, Oh crap!, Baby's got Point!

Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#138 - 2012-10-09 11:43:31 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration.


This is definitely what CCP should be encouraging.

I'm surprised marketing hasn't latched on to it.

They did. One of the trailers was a nub getting his revenge by joining an alliance that ganked him and stealing everything they own and shutting dow their pos network.


I see a distinct lack of child and spousal abuse in that bit.
Malphilos
State War Academy
Caldari State
#139 - 2012-10-09 11:45:03 UTC
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
Malphilos wrote:
Destiny Corrupted wrote:
There's a whole science behind it that when properly utilized, results in such a level of demoralization that people end up beating their wives and children in frustration.


This is definitely what CCP should be encouraging.

I'm surprised marketing hasn't latched on to it.

Don't worry, it happens in other games too. .


Even more shocked CCP isn't actively promoting it. There's obviously a market for it.

Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#140 - 2012-10-09 11:47:08 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
If you want to complain about "they'll bring more ships" find me the killmail a brick tanked Hulk that was Suicide Ganked.


That's been done in many threads.

You ignore those killmails or you just say damage taken is lower than 30k so it's not good enough.