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RMT & Bots

First post
Author
Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2012-10-08 18:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
How can CCP know if Joe Blow sells his isk to some random person? They dont thus they cant enforce it or am I completely wrong about this? Do they have a camera recording everything every eve player is doing everyday? Do they have mind readers on staff? If they dont know its happening how can they enforce it?

I dont know how bots work im not that computer savy but I would think if they could locate these bots they would already be banned right then why are there so many still running. This just tells me they cant enforce this either.

I would report bots but I dont know if they are or are not. Same goes for RMT if I knew if someone bought or sold isk for RM then I would report it but I have no idea so what is one to do? Should I report everyone and hope one of those millions is actually a bot or RMtrader or just ignore it.



Curiosity killed the Cat

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

KrakizBad
Section 8.
#2 - 2012-10-08 18:46:12 UTC
Reporting everyone has the same effect as reporting 1 person.
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2012-10-08 18:47:11 UTC
They check your books.
Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#4 - 2012-10-08 18:50:25 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
im not that computer savy.


Then I will explain it like science in the south.
It's so complex its not worth worrying about, just assume a higher power has our best interests at heart.
Speaker for TheDead
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#5 - 2012-10-08 18:56:01 UTC
CCP has allowed a situation where they don't know who is in control of half of the accounts.
I know too many people in game who have dozens of accounts, most of which were given to them by players who quit the game. Since the accounts are paid for with plex, CCP has no way of knowing who is controlling them.

This makes it impossible to control rmt or anything else. Even if they ban an account or accounts, they have no way of knowing about other accounts that do not appear to be related.

Besides, I think CCP is desperate enough for money that they'll overlook a lot as long as they are getting income from it...Lol

"Inception date: [u]Expired[/u]."

Arkon Olacar
black.listed
#6 - 2012-10-08 18:59:41 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:

This makes it impossible to fully control rmt or anything else.

Fixed. While CCP cannot catch every botter or RMTer, they certainly can catch and ban those stupid enough to get caught, and the bans serve as warnings to others who are tempted to do so, thus controlling the extent of RMTing and botting to acceptable levels. Or at least making bots slightly less omnipresent than they would otherwise be.
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-08 19:10:06 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
I dont know how bots work im not that computer savy


Your first statement is ok


Quote:
but I would think if they could locate these bots they would already be banned right then why are there so many still running. This just tells me they cant enforce this either.


Your second statement makes you the ultra bot-a-tor.
How can you not know how they work, not be computer expert but still be able to spot and declare: "then why are so many" -this your statement.

Quote:
I would report bots but I dont know if they are or are not. Same goes for RMT if I knew if someone bought or sold isk for RM then I would report it but I have no idea so what is one to do? Should I report everyone and hope one of those millions is actually a bot or RMtrader or just ignore it.


So:
-you're not computer expert
-you don't know how bots work
-you see many bots (read your own sentence: "then why are there so many still running"
-you'd like to report bots but don't know how to spot them

You're just letting yourself be manipulated by so many "bot" psychotic dudes always running their mouth with no evidence of whatever knowledge of what they're talking about.
They only "assume" because the target character didn't respond as they wish therefore is a bot.
Some players, knowing a lot about computers and bots (probably because they have their own) can spot those and actually match report/ban but you can ask yourself, should I say you should ask yourself first if those players are not just making clean place for their own bots.

We never had any CCP conformation about this but I'm sure despite smart wording here and there, numbers thrown right left the actual and single number I'd be interested to know for truth is how many of those by some mean at some point are actually alts of loud mouths about mining and bots. I'm sure CCP can know it despite requiring a lot of data and manwork to get the relationship in between random bot sub with paypal or another way so they think they can't just get caught.
I'd really like to see some of these loudmouths get banned for botting so I could publicly spit some nice trolling over their face.

brb

Lord Ryan
True Xero
#8 - 2012-10-08 19:15:31 UTC
Nerf U

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.

Christy D Floyd
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-08 19:20:25 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
I dont know how bots work im not that computer savy


Your first statement is ok


Quote:
but I would think if they could locate these bots they would already be banned right then why are there so many still running. This just tells me they cant enforce this either.


Your second statement makes you the ultra bot-a-tor.
How can you not know how they work, not be computer expert but still be able to spot and declare: "then why are so many" -this your statement.

Quote:
I would report bots but I dont know if they are or are not. Same goes for RMT if I knew if someone bought or sold isk for RM then I would report it but I have no idea so what is one to do? Should I report everyone and hope one of those millions is actually a bot or RMtrader or just ignore it.


So:
-you're not computer expert
-you don't know how bots work
-you see many bots (read your own sentence: "then why are there so many still running"
-you'd like to report bots but don't know how to spot them

You're just letting yourself be manipulated by so many "bot" psychotic dudes always running their mouth with no evidence of whatever knowledge of what they're talking about.
They only "assume" because the target character didn't respond as they wish therefore is a bot.
Some players, knowing a lot about computers and bots (probably because they have their own) can spot those and actually match report/ban but you can ask yourself, should I say you should ask yourself first if those players are not just making clean place for their own bots.

We never had any CCP conformation about this but I'm sure despite smart wording here and there, numbers thrown right left the actual and single number I'd be interested to know for truth is how many of those by some mean at some point are actually alts of loud mouths about mining and bots. I'm sure CCP can know it despite requiring a lot of data and manwork to get the relationship in between random bot sub with paypal or another way so they think they can't just get caught.
I'd really like to see some of these loudmouths get banned for botting so I could publicly spit some nice trolling over their face.



You can troll on my face anytime!

Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2012-10-08 19:20:36 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
They dont thus they cant enforce it or am I completely wrong about this?


Yes you are completely wrong. Every transaction made in the game is recorded in a database. I don't know what they use...likely SQL or something but it's there and they can easily access it.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-10-08 19:23:13 UTC
Christy D Floyd wrote:
You can troll on my face anytime!


Seems you don't know how bots work but then sometimes yes, how can I troll someone so serious? Lol

brb

Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#12 - 2012-10-08 19:23:23 UTC
RAGE QU1T wrote:
They check your books.

I didn't read that right at first and thought you might be right.

Then I re-read it and sighed. P

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom

Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#13 - 2012-10-08 19:35:24 UTC
Actually, there's several ways for CCP (Sreegs and Posse) to detect bots and RMT.

But they would be fools if they actually said anything about how.

They have hit hard, and they continue to create tears (find 'em, they are lovely).

But if you have any experience within infosec (and hacking/botting mmorpgs is related) you know that we don't do PR.

Actually, I'd like to see the videoblog of Guard trying to force Sreegs to do a dev blog ...

It might score high on youtube (fight section).

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

Speaker for TheDead
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2012-10-08 19:38:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Speaker for TheDead
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
They dont thus they cant enforce it or am I completely wrong about this?


Yes you are completely wrong. Every transaction made in the game is recorded in a database. I don't know what they use...likely SQL or something but it's there and they can easily access it.


Yes, and with a fifty thousand transactions a day, I'm sure they have lots of people trying to figure out who's doing what....Roll

"Inception date: [u]Expired[/u]."

Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
#15 - 2012-10-08 19:44:24 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Yes, and with a fifty thousand transactions a day, I'm sure they have lots of people trying to figure out who's doing what....Roll


Because automation cant flag amounts and repetition for further human scrutiny.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#16 - 2012-10-08 19:46:46 UTC
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
They dont thus they cant enforce it or am I completely wrong about this?


Yes you are completely wrong. Every transaction made in the game is recorded in a database. I don't know what they use...likely SQL or something but it's there and they can easily access it.


Yes, and with a fifty thousand transactions a day, I'm sure they have lots of people trying to figure out who's doing what....Roll

And with software that could evaluate every call made in relatively large country 15 years ago and detect "strange" patterns (called Sheriff within the telco in question) you really think that it would be hard to detect anomalies?

If a bot can do it, a bot can detect it.

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.

CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2012-10-08 22:52:28 UTC
Vertisce Soritenshi wrote:
Christy D Floyd wrote:
They dont thus they cant enforce it or am I completely wrong about this?


Yes you are completely wrong. Every transaction made in the game is recorded in a database. I don't know what they use...likely SQL or something but it's there and they can easily access it.

Yep, MSSQL.

Just a random dude in Team Security.

CCP Stillman
C C P
C C P Alliance
#18 - 2012-10-08 22:54:04 UTC
Lors Dornick wrote:
Actually, there's several ways for CCP (Sreegs and Posse) to detect bots and RMT.

But they would be fools if they actually said anything about how.

They have hit hard, and they continue to create tears (find 'em, they are lovely).

But if you have any experience within infosec (and hacking/botting mmorpgs is related) you know that we don't do PR.

Actually, I'd like to see the videoblog of Guard trying to force Sreegs to do a dev blog ...

It might score high on youtube (fight section).

I did a 40 minutes presentation about our work this Saturday in EVE Vegas. I don't know if the stream was recorded, but look for that. I might turn it into a dev blog at a later date.

But you're right, we can't discuss our methods. Just the results.

Just a random dude in Team Security.

Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#19 - 2012-10-08 22:58:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
CCP Stillman wrote:

I did a 40 minutes presentation about our work this Saturday in EVE Vegas. I don't know if the stream was recorded, but look for that. I might turn it into a dev blog at a later date.

But you're right, we can't discuss our methods. Just the results.


Please do, we don't hear enough from Team Security, or Team Avatar for that matter, since someone nerfed their promised dev blog

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Lord Amaterasu
Aves Autem Obumbratio
#20 - 2012-10-08 23:25:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Amaterasu
CCP Stillman wrote:
But you're right, we can't discuss our methods. Just the results.


Just like Guantanamo eh.Blink

Long live the Empress Catiz of Amarr!!

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