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New Dev Blog: Time Dilation Video Demo

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leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#21 - 2011-09-30 19:31:20 UTC
Love the Idea. I understand That it will help people be able to make good calls in large fights,

I Dont get the UI elements slowing down. It just makes the game look Laggy. I thought thats what this was trying to prevent.

Camera locking Indicator ect should run at normal speed and as smooth as Possible (Normal).

I Understand that modual timers should run slowly just not the other Ui Elements.

I also dont like the idea of it effecting an entire node. It should only effect the Grid or system at the extreme not the whole node.
CCP Veritas
C C P
C C P Alliance
#22 - 2011-09-30 19:36:21 UTC
leich wrote:
I Dont get the UI elements slowing down. It just makes the game look Laggy. I thought thats what this was trying to prevent.


That's not what we're trying to do at all - we're not trying to hide that the server is overloaded, we're trying to make the server overloaded in a way that maintains game mechanics and keeps things responsive. Select UI was brought over to the dilated clock in order to help convey how slow the universe is moving. It's a hard thing to judge without seeing it live.

leich wrote:
I also dont like the idea of it effecting an entire node. It should only effect the Grid or system at the extreme not the whole node.


I don't particularly like that either, but it simplified the implementation enough to the point that this could actually be done.

CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#23 - 2011-09-30 19:41:53 UTC
From what my guys are saying on TS.

People really dont like the UI slowing Down. We Prefer the Idea of Hiding the Lag we knows its there were being told by the indicater it;s there we dont want our UI showing it aswell.

Hope this helps.
Myxx
The Scope
#24 - 2011-09-30 19:44:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Myxx
I appreciate your humor,
Quote:

and how it applies to Caldari family reunions.

I laughed pretty hard, also impressive and shiny video. you get a +1 from me. well done.

also where on your list is crimewatch? :p

also yeah, what the person above me said... any way to keep ui speed as normal, or is it all attatched? like, id like to make sure that if i type something, my typing won't slow down as a result, yeah?
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#25 - 2011-09-30 19:44:41 UTC
i love you veritas!! nice work btw! =)

hopefully those that arent well versed in the initial stages of planning out time dilation will catch up as to why this is going to be the most awesome addition to TQ yet!

i would say that maybe the slowed camera pan speed might not be the best but i can understand why u did it, i think....

(to make the act of manipulating stuff in space slower so people are unlikely to do that much more in a dilated mode in comparison)

even so, couldnt help smile when i saw those missiles slow down! i guess the mass test will also test a fleet jumping into a dilated node to see if the jump doesnt de-sync people?


for all of u who area little clueless, afaik TiDi was ment to re-dress the mechanics of fleet combat when systems lag out, which also means when jumping into a system with heavy fighting, u shouldnt de-sync or appear as a lockable target untill uve loaded grid etc...

=) =) =)
Dalton Vanadis
Imperium Technologies
Sigma Grindset
#26 - 2011-09-30 19:46:45 UTC
So, will nodes be mapped slightly more humanly? As in will neighboring systems be put onto the same node, so you end up with geographic time dilation, which might make jumping in and out of systems less of a shock transition. Plus, it might mean you end up with less nodes being dilated.
Isn't the current methodology for mapping node completely unrelated to how players see the map?


Otherwise, cool stuff, can't wait to play with it live
Shasz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-09-30 19:54:47 UTC
Awesome stuff.

My Comments:

I was curious to see how the effect played out on the module activation rings of the ship you were flying - but you didn't demo that part.

The target lock spinning-deally-bobber is a little annoying, but a good indicator of the progress of things relative to the dilation.

The camera panning around stuttery will be frustrating - hand-eye coordination expects fluid movment, not unpredictable pauses while dragging the view around, in order to be precise.

Next video, show more ships. Show TONS of ships. Bring it to its KNEES and show us how gracefully it doesn't die. :)
Nirnaeth Ornoediad
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2011-09-30 19:55:59 UTC
I agree that slowly the camera speed doesn't do much, and may make the UI feel laggy (even if modules don't get stuck, etc.). Camera preferences can be changed, I think, but still...

The UI indicates--such as the rotating triangles over the target picture--are a nice touch, though, and combined with icons moving more slowly (and, presumably, gun animations) should be enough to say "this node is being dilated".

Btw, my recommendation is to *not* have the dilation indicator on by default, but to only turn it on if the node is running at less than 100%. The UI is complex enough for new players.

Well done, though.

Fix POSes.  Every player should want one (even if all players can't have one).
StimpyCat
Toxic Empire
#29 - 2011-09-30 19:56:27 UTC  |  Edited by: StimpyCat
So I love the idea about being able to actually hit something with my missile regardless of how many people are on the node. But the first thing that strikes me is that if it truly is time dilation, does that mean it effects other services as well.

For instance, would the following be effected by the slowdown?

- POS Timer
- Planetary Interaction
- Skill Training
- Market orders
- etc (things that are effected by the progress of time)

But say those things ARE effected by the time dilation, would that not put those on that node out of sync with the rest of eve. Would that further mean that there needs to be a "catch up" that needs to happen to bring those on that node,back into sync with normal eve time?

Sorry if this has already been answered, but this is the first time I've seen this example of time dilation, so I am assuming that some of the ideas are pretty new.

Hot Jets!

StimpyCat
Choans
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
#30 - 2011-09-30 19:57:35 UTC
explain to me pls.

the time slows down to let the server keep up with a high workload...

and the whole node is effected.

how much is the "time" slowed down...
will it effect gameplay in terms of having backup being formed up on a non effected node having more time

Santa Loves You https://docs.google.com/open?id=0BzchQ00MCcL2LUZCamJXZXlPRVE
Pandi V
Perkone
Caldari State
#31 - 2011-09-30 19:59:23 UTC
Looks pretty awesome Veritas, go buy yourself some Exotic Dancers on my account! Pirate


Would still wish the UI and camera didn't have to slow down as well, so that only the actual ships and weapons moved slower while you could still interact normally with the interface.


Oh and more videos like this please! Seeing a good looking guy with an awesome beard talking about new features can melt the heart of even the most bitter vet! Alternatively you could simply record one of your female co-workers (or Manifest) reading the devblogs aloud.... mm yes that should do Cool

CCP Greyscale and Soundwave on power projection: http://youtu.be/_pLi1J9YrkM?t=23m38s
Dradius Calvantia
Lip Shords
#32 - 2011-09-30 20:01:35 UTC
^

Correct, the main purpose of this is not to hide lag, but to ensure that when the system is lagging things still happen in the correct order. Which is not what happens now.

Also, I am assuming that the demo was running either completely on the devs own computer, or a lower spec test server. The Tranquility server should be able to handle much more load before having to resort to this especially on a reinforced node. (Unless I am completely wrong about just how much load a drake blob can add to the server. Stupid missiles.)

Last thing: I do not often run into fights of more than about 40 V 150 (We like to go poke test space occasionally and they don't leave POSes with less than that to counter our AHAC fleets) so I am not to sure exactly how much this will affect me. I am curious how ever, if this will help counter the situation where modules set to active while lock is still being achieved fail to active for several seconds after the target is locked.

This has been very annoying while flying a RSBed back tackle ship, as nearly every time you manage to get a lock on a cloaky, bubble immune T3, they just warp out anyway thanks to module lag. Nothing worse than seeing the target box come up, yelling point, and then seeing it warp off anyway...
leich
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#33 - 2011-09-30 20:04:14 UTC
Dradius Calvantia wrote:
^

Correct, the main purpose of this is not to hide lag, but to ensure that when the system is lagging things still happen in the correct order. Which is not what happens now.

Also, I am assuming that the demo was running either completely on the devs own computer, or a lower spec test server. The Tranquility server should be able to handle much more load before having to resort to this especially on a reinforced node. (Unless I am completely wrong about just how much load a drake blob can add to the server. Stupid missiles.)

Last thing: I do not often run into fights of more than about 40 V 150 (We like to go poke test space occasionally and they don't leave POSes with less than that to counter our AHAC fleets) so I am not to sure exactly how much this will affect me. I am curious how ever, if this will help counter the situation where modules set to active while lock is still being achieved fail to active for several seconds after the target is locked.

This has been very annoying while flying a RSBed back tackle ship, as nearly every time you manage to get a lock on a cloaky, bubble immune T3, they just warp out anyway thanks to module lag. Nothing worse than seeing the target box come up, yelling point, and then seeing it warp off anyway...



Pro Tip dont call point untill you see it show up in your log!
Kyoko Sakoda
Achura-Waschi Exchange
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#34 - 2011-09-30 20:10:38 UTC
Is there any way to keep the frame rate of the scene and the UI elements when dilation is on? The server may perform better under these conditions, but it doesn't look very visually pleasing, and that's not the way I prefer to play.
Grey Stormshadow
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2011-09-30 20:11:05 UTC
One video shows more than 1000 words.

Looks great, works great, solves many problems,doesn't break the game, isn't just eye candy.
Well done, 10/10.

keep up the good work,
grey

Get classic forum style - custom videos to captains quarters screen

Play with the best - die like the rest
TornSoul
BIG
#36 - 2011-09-30 20:13:56 UTC
- Keep the slow(er) moving target indicator - It's a nice touch.
- Don't touch the camera! Seriously...
- The TD indicator needs some work, so it fits with the rest of the UI look&feel. Perhaps integrate it into the current HUD somehow (extra ring or whatever)
Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
#37 - 2011-09-30 20:17:09 UTC
If possible can we have a ghosted grey and in the background normal-speed target spin on the target indicators behind the new slower spin I think that would visually make it neat and give some sort of indication on how actually slower the game is in a more aquired sense I think it was.

Camera speed I disagree with, when you adrenal rush you typically are more sensitive to all stimuli thus if anything camera should move faster but it defaultingly moves fast enough as it is.

Also we do wished you demoed the module clocks. Also is the load on the thin clients just the same if they decided that hey I want 7 individual launchers spaced one second part on 7 second launchers as to opposed to the cluster group fire?

Dust 514's CPM 1 Iron Wolf Saber Eve mail me about Dust 514 issues.
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#38 - 2011-09-30 20:25:39 UTC
ok some of you guys are not getting the point of this system. this is the last gasp mechanic for the server to keep the game playable when all other optimizations fail (and they will - every time CCP ups the ability of the game to handle players on a node, we just cram more players in).

right now without this system you get unresponsiveness, and disparate impact. some people are fully able to act - they can shoot, kill, main and destroy everything around them. other people never even load grid for hours. this is an ungraceful degradation of service quality

the time dilation system system replaces that mess above with a graceful degradation that equally affects all players - that is time slows down.


keep that in mind when you critique the behavior of the system.

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
TheLostPenguin
Surreal Departure
#39 - 2011-09-30 20:27:40 UTC
Can't wait for the breakages this will cause once it's rushed live onto tq, should be some hilarious fountains of tearsLol

Also please make it so there's an option to NOT have the entire ui crap out by design at the very least, tbh taking a client that (I assume) can render camera movement etc perfectly normally and breaking it is just pure stupid, having the eggtimer popup and seeing module cycles slow is all the info I'd want personally, by all means have the judder effects an option for those that like it, just fix it for the rest of us BEFORE you release it not after months of forum bitching...

Also also you really need to get it down to system-wide only not entire node dilation, I can see the rage already once someone figures out which systems are sharing a node with some other alliances staging system/favourite ratting systems and proceeds to merrily lagbomb said node into oblivion. Don't say it won't happen because frankly it will simply down to it being so obviousBig smile
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-09-30 20:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Wylde
bldyannoyed wrote:
Really could do with getting rid of the camera and targetting effect (and in fact any UI) dilation. Whats the point of developing a system that will help beat lag if you then go out of your way to make everything still look like its lagged to hell?

I dunno about you but stuttery cameras and stuff are just going to irritate the hell out o fme.



It's not there to defeat lag, it's there to make everyone lag equally rather than having a few people with nothing and a few who can't do a thing.

Ui lag is part of lag. There's nothing that can be done about it.

leich wrote:
From what my guys are saying on TS.

People really dont like the UI slowing Down. We Prefer the Idea of Hiding the Lag we knows its there were being told by the indicater it;s there we dont want our UI showing it aswell.

Hope this helps.



You don't speak for anyone but yourself, so please try to avoid using "we" in your comments.