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The sad state of WH PvP
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Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#141 - 2012-10-18 13:35:43 UTC
I think the doctrine of fair fights would work in Eve if it weren't possible via a multitude of different metagaming strategies to hide your true force.

Alts, baiting or just straight up not bringing your full fleet means noone can be absolutely sure of what you've really got at your disposal. Multiply that by reputation or just an analysis of EveWho or whatever and suddenly you're thinking "these guys probably have got more than they're showing".

if you could be sure what you were going to face then it would be easier to decide to engage or not. In the example of TL vs Adhoc given there the criticism of Adhoc is only really valid if you assume that Adhoc knew definitively that TL didn't have additional ships nearby, or weren't just baiting with those 8 ships.

Also as a rule of thumb most peoples intentions are "all out victory". I don't think anyone plans to lose ships (unless it's part of a baiting strategy). Keeping ships behind just to have a absolutely "fair" fight in terms of numbers is a nice fantasy but it is rarely borne out in the Eve world.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#142 - 2012-10-18 13:42:22 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
MWBartko wrote:
If we could moon mine in WHs people would fight for them. Moons are the answer.


we all just got checkmated, discussion over lol.

People seem to have turned this isnto a slagging match, talking about specific corps, specific engagements. This was not the intention of the thread.

The intention was to highlight that cap escalations are basically unkillable if they choose to be. In nullsec there is a continuous arms war of fleet dotrines adapting to beat each other. In wormholes armor T3's are so good that everyone uses them almost exclusively. To this day we have not seen an effective counter to them. Fozzie or one of the other devs has talked about nerfing T3's [citation needed] and tbh i cant wait.

Its so boring to fly the same ships but they are simply the best ships. Low mass, high resits, lots of utility slots and can incorporate neuts and ECM that can stay on grid due to high resists.

I still think the emptyness combined with a lack of difference between wormholes means there are very few conflict drivers. Also due to T3's being the best ship which cost atleast 600m but usually 1bil+ people dont want to fight unless they have an overwealming advantage.



We all know you secretely just want to see more drakefleets
Slaktoid
Perkone
Caldari State
#143 - 2012-10-19 21:14:02 UTC
TL & ADHOC sitting in a tree....someone penetrate either one's hole already!!
Punctator
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#144 - 2012-10-21 23:20:09 UTC
people should not be able to anchor pos`ys in wh space.
THIS SPACE SHOULD BE FOR NOMADS not regular forces.
Cpp failed as always.
Terrorfrodo
Interbus Universal
#145 - 2012-10-22 10:25:21 UTC
Punctator wrote:
THIS SPACE SHOULD BE FOR NOMADS not regular forces.

Thousands of wormhole residents disagree. So GTFO Roll

.
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#146 - 2012-10-22 11:46:17 UTC
I would just like to point out that 18 capital ships died in W-space this last weekend, and that's not counting Starbridge and TRECI nabbing a bunch of nullsec ratters as well.

I think W-space is doing just fine.
Mattalious
Doomheim
#147 - 2012-10-22 12:27:28 UTC
Punctator wrote:
people should not be able to anchor pos`ys in wh space.
THIS SPACE SHOULD BE FOR NOMADS not regular forces.
Cpp failed as always.




No, it gave a chance for us small corps to actually call a slice of Eve our own and remain independent of the large Alliances which rule Nullsec. Some of us are eternally grateful to CCP for providing us a play area like that.
Chitsa Jason
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#148 - 2012-10-23 13:42:42 UTC
jonnykefka wrote:
I would just like to point out that 18 capital ships died in W-space this last weekend, and that's not counting Starbridge and TRECI nabbing a bunch of nullsec ratters as well.

I think W-space is doing just fine.


Also 18 caps killed in wspace or by wspace groups on monday alone.

Burn the land and boil the sea You can't take the sky from me
Oxandrolone
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2012-10-24 00:07:11 UTC
Im sure you guys have seen this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2079573#post2079573

its a step in the right direction, killmails from self-destruct and now this are huge steps in forcing people to fight in their caps if they want to make big isk bucks.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#150 - 2012-10-24 02:02:59 UTC
Oxandrolone wrote:
Im sure you guys have seen this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2079573#post2079573

its a step in the right direction, killmails from self-destruct and now this are huge steps in forcing people to fight in their caps if they want to make big isk bucks.


that is excellent news.
a PVP flag extendible 5 min timer is plenty :)

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Casirio
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#151 - 2012-10-24 05:24:55 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Oxandrolone wrote:
Im sure you guys have seen this https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2079573#post2079573

its a step in the right direction, killmails from self-destruct and now this are huge steps in forcing people to fight in their caps if they want to make big isk bucks.


that is excellent news.
a PVP flag extendible 5 min timer is plenty :)


yeah 5 mins is a great compromise im happy with this change
Simon Severasse
Los Marginales
#152 - 2012-10-24 10:40:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Simon Severasse
Even with the fun some of you had yesterday and monday at J122721? Big smile

http://eve-kill.net/?a=system_detail&sys_id=7344&view=kills&page=45
Durzel
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#153 - 2012-10-24 17:06:25 UTC
Fun was had but the enemies weren't looking for a fight, they dropped all those ships, most of which via a login trap, and numerous subcaps that aren't showing up (because they weren't killed) on a single Archon that was mass critting a wormhole.

They subsequently self-destructed everything they couldn't store in their remaining carriers that were warped off to deep safes.

From what I've been led to believe from several sources after that op is that the corp - ex-SOE Cartel guys - had quite a few people in W-space with a score to settle with them.

Anyway I guess the point I'm making is that W-space folk are finding fun in spite of game mechanics not necessarily because of them, though I have to say if you roll around wormholes with 30 man T3 gangs etc looking for fights then it's hardly surprising people POS up. There comes a point I feel that if you have hundreds of members chomping at the bit to gank some Tengus running a site then perhaps null sec would be a better place to live?
Lolmer
Merciless Reckoning
#154 - 2012-11-10 03:30:53 UTC
Lou Sanus wrote:
To the people claiming they are getting fights in WHs, your killboards tell a different story Roll


Also, some WH corps don't auto-post kill reports via API (or even manually post) so as to present less information on them to others.