Intergalactic Summit

Here's an idea. You try building a working government out of the ruins left behind by an invading, slaving force. Then, you try doing it with more than a third of your people still held by said force. Oh, and then try doing it while actively at war with that same force.

And then do it in a way that makes everyone happy. Including the slavers.

You assume, of course, that many who share your genetic ancestry on the Amarrian side of the border still consider themselves Matari. This is not always the case, as there are indeed slaves who consider themselves to be faithful Amarrian subjects.

Perhaps a more solid solution would be to send only those who are discontent with their lives as slaves to the Republic? It would result in the highest net utility: people who wanted to leave do so, and people who want to stay also do so. If Amarrian ideology holds true, the majority will stay and thus the Empire's standard of living will not decrease. If Republic ideology holds true, the majority will leave and thus cripple the Empire as well as the Republic.

Based on anecdotal observation, many would choose to say simply because migrant workers face the possibility of winding up homeless and starving. The fear of this is a strong motivator to maintain the status quo. And yet, those few and proud who would still consider themselves Minmatar would boldly take the risks and rejoin their brethren in the Republic. Why would the Republic want people who are Matari only by genetics but Amarrian in mind and soul? Leave such individuals where they are, where they are happier.

Would not everyone win?

You're wrong. They are not our people. Not anymore.

They have not been our people since the Day of Darkness. That battle is long, long over. We lost. Regardless of the ancestry of those slaves, that die has long been cast. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Does it make what the Amarr did morally right? No. Of course not. But fighting and clawing at the Amarr to try and get the descents of those people back will not change the past and will not undo the damage they have done. All that can be done is to try and move forward in the future, and that means not destroying ourselves in an effort to save people that we could not realistically care for even if we did manage to free them. It has never been about the slaves, it is about vengeance. Its about getting even with the Amarr. Well, newsflash. That is not going to happen. We cannot erase the past, we cannot go back in time and prevent the Day of Darkness.

The continued assertion that you and Ms. Astroyka seem to be making is that it is better to die free then to live as a slave. And while you might be willing to abide that statement, you cannot make that choice for everyone. The actions of people with that attitude within the republic government have resulted in untold misery, which leads me to the conclusion that they care more about those Amarrian slaves then they do for their own people. As soon as they are freed, former slaves are dumped into refugee camps and forgotten. Millions live in slums in Hek, Rens, Ammold, and Onga. What about them? Is that what you freed them for? The freedom to die in squaller? Oh, and thats if they accept matari culture, a culture that they not been a part of in nearly 700 years. Those that don't go along with it, who refuse to submit to Matari philosophy and try to maintain the identities of the culture they were raised in, become the subject of sectarian violence, like is seen with Abel Jarek. They let their hatred, prejudice, and desire to get even with the Amarr cloud their judgements.

Would the slaves in the Empire be better off free? Maybe. Do they desire freedom? Maybe. But what is best for the slaves is completely irrelevant in the context of the current political climate. Until the entire Republic has a decent standard of living, access to safe clean beds, food, medicine, and clean water, then you have no right to attempt to impose value judgements on anyone.

Do you think the Amarr are despicable for what they did? Great, fine, its okay to feel that way. But its not okay to ask your entire nation to take upon themselves the burden of changing the Amarr Empire. Worry about the people that have already been rescued. Worry about the people dying of curable diseases within your own borders. Don't be so blinded by your own anger as to ignore those who really are your people.

The attitudes expressed by the Matari in this thread will only lead to ruin. Nothing can grow on a soil of ash.

Oh, it counts. But it shouldn't be the responsibility of private individuals. It should be the responsibility of government. That is what the government is there for.

Go ahead, I'm sure my superiors will give their undivided attention to you. As for reflecting on my corporation, I'm tame compared to them.



Not everything sucks; there are beautiful things in this cluster, many wonders to be hold, great stories to be heard and told. The issue is the biggest black stain on all that beauty is the Amarrian propensity for spouting doctrine and scripture for all their sins.

"It wasn't me, god told me to do it, it's written down ... see."



And what have you taken from Matar? The Kingdom and Empire takes daily from Matar, it takes the food grown by Matari hands, it takes homes built by Matari hands, it takes babies nursed by Matari hands. And you still expect Matar to give you something back, you selfish *****.



The point is, you're not, you're not doing anything to change, yes bleat on that I'm using force to "do something", well at least I'm fighting for those that can't. Your just "feeding" the situation physically and metaphorically. Grow a spine and take the plunge. Humans are capable of adapting to adversity, ask a slave.

That's all I hear from you, the bleating of lambs crying that "we can't do anything", "we are so stuck in our ways", "you're argument is flawed because you're not giving me a solution". So yes, "bleat" is apt, and I'll use it profusely.



One reform, stop using slaves, that's all, plain, simple, clear, concise. How that affects your life is immaterial.



Why should any Matar care what happens to Amarr after a unilateral release? You have your wealth and status, and God, you will be fine. Pray a little, maybe even subjugate a few billion Caldari, I may switch sides and continue the fight.

Your god will save you.

Alliance-level works you say?

Electus Matari in general and Gradient specifically have been engaged on such work for years. Certainly for longer than the militia wars have been going on.

Dearest Ms Meiyi, you call me naive, but clearly you have the same limited view. IF the slaves were truly free then its their choice to choose where to go. You are already pre-empting their choice as a slaver usually does. They may not want to return to Matari space, they may want to stay and settle close to where they were born and raised in which case the issue would have to be dealt with by local governments. Many may choose to move to Gallente or even Caldari space and as free men and women thats their choice.

You have a capsuleers view of New Eden; the ships you see flying through space are a tiny fraction of the greater number of civilian vessels out there, I truly doubt their wouldn't be enough ships. CONCORD may even intervene in the effort! Of the number of slaves you quote, there may be many that already are capable of piloting a vessel and if supplied by those that once enslaved them as recompense for the years of slavery done to their family they could find their own way in the cluster, as free men and women.

Of the portion that would want to return to Matari space, then clearly the Republic should assist them where needed, but don't you think that since it was Amarr that took them in the first place that Amarr should facilitate that task, financially and logistically.



Deaths will happen; free men and women make choices that affect their lives. You would love an ordered, clean and dignified release of slaves, but I'm pretty sure it would be bloody as many would want to take retribution on their Holders; can you blame them? If it did happen then that's again for the authorities to deal with, criminally, against free men and women with a choice.

Personally a few less Amarr wouldn't go amiss from New Eden.

New Eden is a big place, plenty of habitable planets, countless millions of civilian ships and transports and people that would come to the aid if needed. New Eden isn't just filled with capsuleers although it seems that way to the naive.

No.

Except..they did. See also: her homeworld.