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A capital-class mining barge?
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Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#21 - 2012-10-05 21:38:20 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
Kazu'ul wrote:
I think the point is that since most players can make more money doing other things, not many are mining. AT THE POINT that it becomes lucrative (pyerite 25 p/u) you will see a flood of players mining it. Until then, people seem happy to pay the inflated prices. The sov tug-o-war will continue, ships will be built. The little miner newbies will profit. Problem? I see none.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^this



This has been the case since the dawn of eve. Yet there are still miners.

There was even a time where mining was the only way to get minerals (before the drone regions existed.)



yes and most of thoes miners were bot miners now they have beeb removed and no longer dictate what the value of minerals are as they could outmine anyone and they could out mine them everytime

now that the artifical suppliers have been removed and Eve now needs to rely on its actual player abse to revamp what the bots were doing, but players either have found more lucrative ventures or more entertaining ventures then mining.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2012-10-05 21:40:09 UTC
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
the future of minerals is happenign right now

they are on a up swing for somw and either stagnation or downfall for others

this is refered to as SUPPLY/DEAMND

atm the demand is huge rediculously so the supply is moderate to small

if your thinking 6 months shouldnt be enough time to SPECULATE on market trends and what not, i do have to ask where did you live when the US stock Exchange crashed after many years of gains it crashed and crashed hard

basically its what is happened here, the high calue commidites are crashing while others are rising the system is balanced itself out and continues to inflate/deflate as things change and the supply is not meet

the guys mining are happy doing the thing they do and i say great let them continue, but untill Inflation reaches a most astronimical level and the isk faucets are shoving the isk down our throats hand over fist we will pay and we will pay dearly for it.


Yea and how long has it taken for the US economy to recover? Oh yea still working on that.

Speculation at any point is valid. But I think its way too soon to be calling for a new super mining ship. Wanna talk about potential imbalance and unintended consequences.
Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#23 - 2012-10-05 21:42:23 UTC
Idris i would agree with you but,

with things in game like incursions just pouring out billions of isk a day/week/month, truly no longer does the risk v reward system exsist

alot of things need fixing but to now intervene in the game in that way is basically being biased in favor of null players, they have the option to mine the minerals they need as well and im sure they do.

also risk v reward does not really really exsist behind a huge blue firewall i mean com'on really
Cap James Tkirk
Baba Yagas
The Initiative.
#24 - 2012-10-05 21:44:13 UTC
derath i assume you did not read my post where i said ya a new super mining capital ship is a bad idea.

and yes the US economy is still recovering but is much much more massive and intricate then the Eve enconomy driven by and for only 50k ppl which at least 50% is an alt acct meaning more like 25k ppl

much easier to balance and recover on that scale dont ya think
Pipa Porto
#25 - 2012-10-06 01:52:32 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
I think what we're seeing is a real shortage of low-end minerals, in other words: low-ends and high-ends have swapped places. Not enough miners are grinding up Veld and Scord rocks to meet supply, hence prices go up. I'm just wondering why that is, given the huge buff to mining vessels in the last release. Maybe it's still too early to see the results, but I doubt it -- it's been a couple of months now, enough time for the changes to start to show.


I think you're underestimating the amount of low ends Drone Poo and Meta 0 mods produced.

The reason the focus was on the high ends was that they didn't produce enough to "use up" all the high ends they produced.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
#26 - 2012-10-06 15:37:00 UTC
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
derath i assume you did not read my post where i said ya a new super mining capital ship is a bad idea.

and yes the US economy is still recovering but is much much more massive and intricate then the Eve enconomy driven by and for only 50k ppl which at least 50% is an alt acct meaning more like 25k ppl

much easier to balance and recover on that scale dont ya think



Eve is larger then that by about 5x.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#27 - 2012-10-06 17:23:31 UTC
Ireland VonVicious wrote:
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
derath i assume you did not read my post where i said ya a new super mining capital ship is a bad idea.

and yes the US economy is still recovering but is much much more massive and intricate then the Eve enconomy driven by and for only 50k ppl which at least 50% is an alt acct meaning more like 25k ppl

much easier to balance and recover on that scale dont ya think



Eve is larger then that by about 5x.


I doubt it. Subscriber numbers are highly questionable.

On average at any given time, the population of EVE is around 40 thousand accounts, of which more than a third are alts. (Maybe more like half.) I think EVE's all-time highest population at once was around 60K people, and that was before the Incarna fiasco. I've never seen it go that high since.
Virr Kotto
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-10-06 20:03:58 UTC
Sounds like a reasonably workable (with some tweaks) concept for a T2 Orca... which, much like fluffy earred bunny slippers from the NEX store, may never happen... sadly.

Cry
Megos Adriano
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2012-10-06 22:27:58 UTC
Cap James Tkirk wrote:
Why should better tools be handed out to Null sec players? by doing that it would destroy the current profession of mining and slap it back to how it was with drone poo

CCP has offered the tools to make stupid easy isk in FW/Sleepers/Incursions for example i can make 60-90m an hour with one acct while it takes 4 accts mining to get to that level of income per hour so IMO its fine leave it alone

mining is now slowly catching up to it as a reasonable choice for thoes that like the profession adding a capital belt **** machine will only restore things back to the deflated market they had seen previously thus killing mining for HS pilots again and making other activites the go to

the markets will eventually stabalize on its own power if not the skys the limit


Learn what a f-cking comma is.

And boom goes the dynamite.
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2012-10-06 23:19:13 UTC
The problem is, we have people like the OP who think that a new mining ship will solve all our poroblems. A new mining ship will just create new and exacerbate the alredy existing problems.

Lets face it people, mining sucks. It is a boring, mind numbing, snooze fest of a grind, and I'm a miner. You will never hear "engaging gameplay" when discussing minng as it is today. This is part of the problem, the other part of the problem is that everything else that someone can do in EVE, is far more rewarding than mining. What that does, is make anybody that started mining want to leave that profession as quickly as they can, to do something "fun".

EVE needs more miners, not more mining ships

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#31 - 2012-10-07 00:28:39 UTC
I didn't read past the first page, but in case nobody has mentioned it:

The Rorqual is currently somewhat useless in a belt because it is completely defenseless when sieged. Even when not sieged, it basically has enough DPS to handle only belt rats.

Another hugely expensive defenseless mining ship is probably not needed.

Then there is the market impact from adding mining ships with higher yield than a Hulk. CCP has stated they just won't do this.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#32 - 2012-10-07 01:00:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
Virr Kotto wrote:
Sounds like a reasonably workable (with some tweaks) concept for a T2 Orca... which, much like fluffy earred bunny slippers from the NEX store, may never happen... sadly.

Cry


The Rorqual was intended to be the capital-class mining vessel, but it never performed well in that role. It's not survivable out in a nullsec mining belt. What's needed is a mining vessel that can actually, you know, mine. The Rorq's ore-compression feature was always a mistake, in my opinion: it would have been better to fit the Rorq with a huge ore bay and a built-in refinery. (It's not too late, CCP!) The Rorqual at present mainly functions as a booster and a POS ore-compression module and not much else.

The issue at hand is that since CCP was so successful in killing bots and nerfing the drone regions, it's now necessary for actual human beings to do the mining. And even with the buffs to the mining barges (which I still think was payback to the Goons for the "burn Jita" and Hulkageddon thing - no more easy miner ganks for you, sorry), high sec miners are not able to meet demand. And for nullsec, which should be able to pick up the slack, isn't. Why? Because mining low-ends in null is too damned difficult in terms of logistics. Hence, a capital-class mining vessel (either a buffed Rorqual or a brand-new hull).
Kara Books
Deal with IT.
#33 - 2012-10-07 01:56:09 UTC
Highsec mining would be obliteration, the economy on the entire ship front would collapse overnight.

Prices on minerals would crash back to 2010 levels and every single BOT would be in one of those.

I am fiercely against any kind of low end mining improvements in nulsec!
Mortimer Civeri
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2012-10-07 02:06:14 UTC
Idris Helion wrote:
*SNIP*

The issue at hand is that since CCP was so successful in killing bots and nerfing the drone regions, it's now necessary for actual human beings to do the mining. And even with the buffs to the mining barges (which I still think was payback to the Goons for the "burn Jita" and Hulkageddon thing - no more easy miner ganks for you, sorry), high sec miners are not able to meet demand.


Yes, high sec miners are not able to meet demand, because there are not enough of us non bot miners to meet that demand. Given that mining is the most boring, and least rewarding, profession in eve, I doubt that more people will take up mining as a profession to meet that demand.

Quote:
And for nullsec, which should be able to pick up the slack, isn't. Why? Because mining low-ends in null is too damned difficult in terms of logistics. Hence, a capital-class mining vessel (either a buffed Rorqual or a brand-new hull).


Not only difficult, due to logistics, but also difficult due to there not being enough low ends in the grav sites. I've done the math, there is just enough trit in a Large grav site, the kind that is most profitable to cycle daily, to make one battlecrusier, ONE. The small has enough trit bearing ore to make three- four more battlecrusiers. Add to that fact that Bistot and Crokite, are currently valued below Veldspar in ISK/m3 where 27.5k m3 of Veldspar is valued at about ~5 mil ISK. Seems like Null is meeting demand for the high ends quite well. It's not that Null doesn't want to take up the slack for low ends, it's that it can't.

"I don't know which is worse, ...that everyone has his price, or that the price is always so low." Calvin
Virr Kotto
Doomheim
#35 - 2012-10-07 03:20:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Virr Kotto
Idris Helion wrote:
The Rorqual was intended to be the capital-class mining vessel, but it never performed well in that role. It's not survivable out in a nullsec mining belt. What's needed is a mining vessel that can actually, you know, mine. The Rorq's ore-compression feature was always a mistake, in my opinion: it would have been better to fit the Rorq with a huge ore bay and a built-in refinery. (It's not too late, CCP!) The Rorqual at present mainly functions as a booster and a POS ore-compression module and not much else.


Well, many people in Null found a "workaround" to that compression issue... which may have been nerfed after it was highlighted in a relatively recent QEN... no Rorq required.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#36 - 2012-10-07 10:57:10 UTC
Kazu'ul wrote:
I think the point is that since most players can make more money doing other things, not many are mining. AT THE POINT that it becomes lucrative (pyerite 25 p/u) you will see a flood of players mining it. Until then, people seem happy to pay the inflated prices. The sov tug-o-war will continue, ships will be built. The little miner newbies will profit. Problem? I see none.

This.

Remove standings and insurance.
Celgar Thurn
Department 10
#37 - 2012-10-07 11:29:58 UTC
Oh dear. Another 'increased yield' thread. We don't need to increase the yield. Mining isn't broken. Mining is currently viable as a career choice in New Eden. Working as intended. etc. X
Vajahla
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2012-10-07 23:25:26 UTC
I think it would be more fun if there was a T2 Orca with more fighting option ... eg some turret or launcher slots ... CCP could also change pirates in the belts so we get more more action in 0.6 - 0.5 systems. Big smile
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#39 - 2012-10-08 10:56:24 UTC
A capital Mining ship with a mining siege module, lol

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
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