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Epic Arc Agent - Burning Down the Hive
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Elijah Nineveh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-10-04 14:06:31 UTC
Having a hard time with this lost two punishers and a coercer. Aside from not sucking because I'm new, are there any other recommendations?

Thank you
Ifly Uwalk
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2012-10-04 14:25:43 UTC
The 2 Strain drones are your primary targets.

If your skill level is so low that you have trouble finishing this mission you must kill those two first because they are the ones that will scram you. With those two gone you can hammer away at the rest, warping out as needed, i.e. when you see your armor failing.
Elijah Nineveh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2012-10-04 14:37:19 UTC
What about ship and fiting wise, any tips?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2012-10-04 14:38:24 UTC
Ifly Uwalk wrote:
The 2 Strain drones are your primary targets.

If your skill level is so low that you have trouble finishing this mission you must kill those two first because they are the ones that will scram you. With those two gone you can hammer away at the rest, warping out as needed, i.e. when you see your armor failing.


Pretty much this. I would think this mission is one of the biggest causes of noob's first real ship losses. I lost a Tristan, Catalyst and Vexor to that mission as a noob.

if possible the best thing generally is to do your best to kite, and drop the strain drones first. When I did first complete it, I did it in a tristan with rails and drones. I aggressed and then turned 180 and burned away, shooting things as they came in range.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-10-04 15:00:29 UTC
Elijah Nineveh wrote:
What about ship and fiting wise, any tips?


Try fitting a warp stabilizer in one of your low slots to avoid being warp scrambled. Or "kite" the enemy by staying out of warp-sramble range. It depends on which ship you're flying. Brawlers like the Punisher get in close, so you're going to get webbed/scrammed a lot . To deal with this you need two things: tank and DPS. Your fitting options on the Punisher are limited, so I'd use your low slots for armor rather than a warp stabs, and use pulse lasers with multifreq crystals for maximum DPS. This does mean you have to get in very close, however -- around 1000 meters.

As another poster said, drop the scram drones first, then deal with the rest. That way you can warp out if you're taking too much damage.

One thing I'd mention: there are two types of tank, "active" and "passive" (or "buffer"). "Active" tank means that you have a module that actively regenerates your shield or armor; a "passive" tank resists damage and gives you more EHP, but doesn't regenerate. When you're flying solo, you really need an active tank because you'll be taking constant damage and won't have a fleet member remote-repping you. And you can't fit enough buffer on a frigate in many cases to take all the DPS coming in at you, so you need to repair (or "rep") yourself as you go. Amarr ships like the Punisher tend to be armor-tanked, so you'd probably want an armor-repairer module in one of your lows (with an EM and Thermal armor hardener, since you're going against drones and that's the damage they do).

There's an art to fitting ships, especially ones with limited slots like frigates.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-10-04 15:04:51 UTC
Also: the Coercer sucks. It's the worst Destroyer in the game. If you want to fly a Destroyer in the "Blood Stained Stars" epic arc (and I'd recommend it because you can do a lot more DPS that way), train into an autocannon-fit Thrasher. If you rolled an Amarr character, you can cross-train into other ships -- just buy the Minmatar frigate skill book and train it up to IV (the Destroyers skill is non-racial, so you're already good to go there). You'll also need to train Projectile Turrets, but this is a good idea anyway. You can even fit autocannon on your Punisher if you want -- it's not bonused for them, but they work well.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#7 - 2012-10-04 15:11:21 UTC
Here's a good article from EVE Uni about this mission:

http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Burning_Down_the_Hive
Elijah Nineveh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2012-10-04 16:41:27 UTC
Thank you for all of the info. Any comments about if a cruiser would be a good idea? I was looking at Ammar standard Omen or Maller?
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2012-10-04 16:56:59 UTC
Elijah Nineveh wrote:
Thank you for all of the info. Any comments about if a cruiser would be a good idea? I was looking at Ammar standard Omen or Maller?


A cruiser can work. especially if you have drone skills, you can basically run away and send the drones back to kill while you kite everything.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#10 - 2012-10-04 17:51:34 UTC
Elijah Nineveh wrote:
Thank you for all of the info. Any comments about if a cruiser would be a good idea? I was looking at Ammar standard Omen or Maller?


A cruiser might help in the later stages, but I ran the whole thing in a destroyer (a Thrasher) with no trouble, and with under a million skillpoints. Smart fitting is more important than how big a ship you're flying in that series of missions.

If you're a relatively new toon, it'll take you awhile to skill up enough to fly a cruiser well. Yes, you can jump in a cruiser quickly, but there are a whole raft of other skills that need to be done at the same time if you don't want to die horribly and lose your ship. A destroyer at level IV is a better ship than a cruiser at level II in most cases I can think of (except for situations that call for drones, of which there aren't many in beginner missions).

Just because you can fly a given ship class doesn't mean you should fly that ship. Early on, your skills are just too low to be able to fit a cruiser-sized vessel effectively or fly it properly.

If you haven't yet gotten your "Core Competency" certificate, I'd get that before even *thinking* about getting in a combat cruiser. And for Amarr ships, you'll need your Engineering and Mechanics skills up to V as soon as you can (because those are skills that enhance structure and armor HP, and help with capacitor usage). You'll also want the "Frigate/Cruiser Energy Turrets" cert, the "Armor Tanking" cert, and the "High Velocity Helmsman" cert. (All at the "Basic" level, of course.) I'd consider those certs to be a minimum requirement to be able to start flying an Amarr Cruiser.
Elijah Nineveh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2012-10-04 18:11:31 UTC
Ok, I guess I'll give the punisher one more shot with the kiting method. If that doesn't work I'll look into learning how to fly a thrasher. I could always look into a fleet too right? Either way thank you again everyone.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2012-10-04 18:21:34 UTC
Elijah Nineveh wrote:
Ok, I guess I'll give the punisher one more shot with the kiting method. If that doesn't work I'll look into learning how to fly a thrasher. I could always look into a fleet too right? Either way thank you again everyone.



Feel free to ping me also if yuo need a hand. I'm overdue to run SOE again ( I try to run it just for the standings bump) so I was gonna try to fit it in sometime this week.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#13 - 2012-10-04 19:11:42 UTC
Elijah Nineveh wrote:
Ok, I guess I'll give the punisher one more shot with the kiting method. If that doesn't work I'll look into learning how to fly a thrasher. I could always look into a fleet too right? Either way thank you again everyone.


A Punisher should be fine. It's one of the best frigates in the game, in fact. If you're going to kite, though, use beam lasers instead of pulse lasers and use standard crystals instead of multifreqs. Beam lasers have much better range than pulses, and T1 standard (yellow) crystals give good damage without sacrificing range too much. And if you're going to kite, you may decide to leave off a stasis webber (since you'll be running instead of brawling anyhow) and put a sensor booster + range script in there, if you can fit one. It'll help you lock targets from further out than you would be able to normally (though be aware this won't help the range on your turrets).

To keep out of web/scram range, you'll want to stay at about 15km from your target. Be sure that your weapons system can deliver decent damage from that range. You'll probably be working outside of optimal for frigate turrets, and at falloff ranges you'll only be doing partial damage. Hover over your turret icon while in space and you'll get a tooltip showing Your range (optimal + falloff). Optimal means you'll hit almost 100% of the time for nearly full damage; into the falloff means that you'll miss more often and deliver less damage. Outside of optimal + falloff, you probably will not hit at all. (This is also why gunnery skills are so important -- your range and tracking get better as you skill up.)

Punishers aren't the best kiting frigates because they're slow compared to other ships. The Slicer is the speedy frigate in the Amarr arsenal, but it can't mount the firepower that the Punisher can. However, if you mount an afterburner on your Punisher you should be able to keep your range from the bad guys.
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#14 - 2012-10-04 19:27:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Idris Helion
Here' s quick Punisher fit that I used a lot early on. It should give you a decent kiting setup.

PUNISHER

Low Slots

Heat Sink I
Small Armor Repairer I
Armor EM Hardener I (Swap out for enemy type)
Armor Thermic Hardener I

Mid Slots

1MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger I

High Slots

Dual Modulated Light Energy Beam x 3 (Standard S crystal)
(4th high slot empty)

If you don't leave your armor repper running all the time, you'll be cap-stable. With the repper running you still have over a minute to take care of business before you run out of cap.

There are probably better noob fits for the Punisher, but this one should work for you.

EDIT: You should have an optimal + falloff range around 12 to 15km, depending on your skills. If you need more range, try the Microwave S crystal instead of the Standard S. (Carry both sets just to be safe and switch them out on the fly if you need to.) CPU may be a bit tight as well. You may have to leave off the Heat Sink module if you run out of CPU.
Kara Wayfarer
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-10-04 21:28:34 UTC
I feel your pain, I was cruising through every mission I came across in my Kestrel until I ran into this one.

I brought in my Cormorant and promptly lost that.

It was a good mission in that it got me started really needing to think about fittings and tactics and the strengths and weaknesses of various ships.

Here is the guide to the arc I used.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/The_Blood-Stained_Stars

I ended up heading to Minmater space and going through the tutorials again. I got my free Slasher and fitted it with long range guns and missiles. Its a fast little ship with a high base speed and is inexpensive. This way I could practice kiting and not have to worry much about loosing the ship.

I ended up loosing the first slasher, but by the time I came back with the second I had the technique and once I finished off the scrambler drones the rest were doable in the Slasher with some running back and forth, or you could go and get your destroyer.

I also recommend the Thrasher for the other parts of the arc, I was able to fit it correctly and take out the end boss without issue.

Good luck.
Oraac Ensor
#16 - 2012-10-06 11:49:48 UTC
When you warp in, take time to observe the positions of the drones. They will be in two groups and you need to make sure that you only get aggro from the nearest group. Kite them away from the other group and, as already said, pick off the Strain drones first. Then go after the others, again prioritising the Strains.
Elijah Nineveh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2012-10-07 01:22:58 UTC
I finally got it everyone, thank you for the help