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Convo request spamming - why isn't this an exploit?

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Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#61 - 2012-10-04 10:23:18 UTC
Denial of service attacks are against the law is some countries, and well that's what this is.

It's probably too much work to fix this issue for CCP to acknowledge it as an exploit.
TharOkha
0asis Group
#62 - 2012-10-04 10:45:04 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Kalen Vox wrote:
I cannot imagine why people are popping up even to defend this, which, in my opinion is clearly an exploit.


Jetting a single can is not an exploit. A whole fleet jetting hundreds of cans to cause grid loading lag is. This we know.

Starting a single convo is not an exploit. A whole fleet starting hundreds of convos to cause lag is.


Simple.




This.....
It is clearly "DDOS" atack thus exploit. They are doing it intentionally to slow down oponents PC. And Goons and their pets are defending this "tactic"....WHAT A SURPRISE Shocked

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Mra Rednu
Vanishing Point.
#63 - 2012-10-04 10:48:31 UTC
Kalen Vox wrote:
I cannot imagine why people are popping up even to defend this, which, in my opinion is clearly an exploit.


Jetting a single can is not an exploit. A whole fleet jetting hundreds of cans to cause grid loading lag is. This we know.

Starting a single convo is not an exploit. A whole fleet starting hundreds of convos to cause lag is.


Simple.



this
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#64 - 2012-10-04 12:07:39 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#65 - 2012-10-04 12:28:36 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.

I feel the need to reiterate that both sides have done this.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#66 - 2012-10-04 12:49:12 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It's a dirty tactic, but we all know it happens. Often in large fleets I've heard an
So the question is, shouldn't this be declared an exploit?

Let me address this:

The EULA clearly says "You may not take any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on the System."

Sending somebody a convo is an action "you" perform. The system is designed to support a conversation request from "you." One request does not break the game. Likewise, each of your fleetmates also may convo anyone they choose, so long as they don't do so in a way that causes their single request to be re-propagated automatically or in some other way cause lag to the system, they have performed a legitimate function of the game. To whit, even the FC calling for everyone to do this is not an exploit, per se, because they haven't directly taken action that presents a disproportionate load. In fact, when the FC attempts to convo the target, their request is just as valid as any other request which has been sent.

So in short, the answer is "you" aren't doing anything "wrong." Only taken as a whole does the attack cause a strain on the system, which isn't any different than jumping your giant fleet into jita and enacting lag and ti-di. It's just a natural part of a lot of people playing a video game in a persistent environment.

My 2 isk.



A while back and I didn't have much involvement so I don't remember all the details, but I'm sure someone else here dose. Someone in FW got all butthurt about something and filed a petition. This person encouraged other to copy and paste this complaint into their own petition. Anyways some action was taken against some parties involved by CCP. What ever load was created by these people probably didn't create ingame lag. Hopefully someone involved will post with more detail.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Onictus
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2012-10-04 12:53:04 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Denial of service attacks are against the law is some countries, and well that's what this is.

It's probably too much work to fix this issue for CCP to acknowledge it as an exploit.



If only there was a setting for that.........
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#68 - 2012-10-04 12:53:38 UTC
Ohanka wrote:
I read your title and not your post. I did not consider it to be of the intellectual calibre required for a person of my intellectual superiority and genius to reply to.

Good day to you sir.

(I shall now read your OP)

But you did anyways!

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#69 - 2012-10-04 12:58:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.

I feel the need to reiterate that both sides have done this.

I feel the need to say that it doesn't matter who does or doesn't do it. It is still exploiting a mechanic for an unintended result.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#70 - 2012-10-04 13:00:04 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Anyone else think it is funny that OP seems butthurt over the fact that he can just tick the auto reject invitations and it has eluded him so far? Please tell me you are using a Mac because then it would all make sense why you are crying about this.

I think it's even funnier you can't read.

+1

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2012-10-04 13:11:13 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.

I feel the need to reiterate that both sides have done this.

I feel the need to say that it doesn't matter who does or doesn't do it. It is still exploiting a mechanic for an unintended result.

I agree, but I was just responding to your quote.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#72 - 2012-10-04 13:16:47 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.

I feel the need to reiterate that both sides have done this.

I feel the need to say that it doesn't matter who does or doesn't do it. It is still exploiting a mechanic for an unintended result.

I agree, but I was just responding to your quote.

Then we are on the same page.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2012-10-04 13:58:30 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

So you're saying that Eve needs a Geneva Convention?

*Jovian Convention?

If you read it again 500 times, you may be able to understand what I said.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2012-10-04 14:01:58 UTC
Val'Dore wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Jim Era wrote:
Ok, not an exploit.
Just a maneuver used by bad players who are unable to compete appropriately.

Therefore, whoever uses this technique is automatically the loser because how can you be taken seriously?


Nothing is appropriate in war, you do what you have to do to win.

If you have to exploit to win, maybe you are on the wrong side of the war.


War isn't a pretty thing whether it's inside a game world or in real life. there are no real rules to it, you just do what you need to do to win. Ask any military force in the world about this.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2012-10-04 14:29:04 UTC
Welcome to Eve! Just because your coalition uses a tactic first doesn't mean it won't then be used against you!

Still you'll have lots of opportunity to adapt, as I'm sure Tenal is about to face an epic culling, if-you-know-what-I-mean... Pirate
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#76 - 2012-10-04 14:59:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
If your internet is so bad that you get disconnected from mere requests (that still gets denied) to the client, you need to throw out that modem and come join us in the modern era of technology.

My 0.2 isk

This is kind of presumptuous, given that we're not exactly sure of the nature of the problem (client or network lag). I can't speak to any setups either, seeing as this has in fact never happened to me.


So what you are really saying, you don't know what you really are talking about as you clearly have no insight.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
Warde Guildencrantz
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#77 - 2012-10-04 15:23:38 UTC
At the point where it causes the person lag by the amount of people convoing is also the point where it wouldn't matter if it was done or not because they get vollied by the other group.

TunDraGon ~ Low sec piracy since 2003 ~ Youtube ~ Join Us
Nylith Empyreal
Sutar Rein
#78 - 2012-10-04 15:32:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Nylith Empyreal
Intriguing, should call out a separate list of primaries now for the direct use of convo spam. You'll go through fleets much faster, and when they get back on do it again until they're the last one standing.

Wonder if you could create an army of alts, and when you jump into a blockade you can use your back army to mass crash the blockade and move on your merry way.

Who's the more foolish the fool or the fool who replies to him?
flakeys
Doomheim
#79 - 2012-10-04 15:45:06 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
If this mechanic is fully proven to DDOS an opposing players client (I remember log-scrolling in DAoC being used to slow people down) then dear God why are people defending it?

Is the asshattery so bad in this game that anybody could defend it?


One more reason to eschew (finally, used that word) large fleets, the basement dwelling win-at-all-costs-because-my-life-sucks neckbeards' corporations, and their 0.0 space.





And not surprisingly wich faces come out to defend it either.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2012-10-04 16:21:13 UTC
Serious question for you James Amril-Kesh,

If you view convo spamming someone as being so bad, so against the law, so terrible. Why are you waiting till now to make this thread when your own main FC has been telling you guys to convo bomb Elo Knight for over a month now, maybe two. Why now bring it up? Why didn't you make this thread a long time ago?

Answer me that.

Also everyone else needs to please note that the battle where Razor lost 19 carriers iirc and a CSAA was in fact lost due to terrible placement of the carriers and the fact that they were only able to be cap stable for about two minutes before capping out, thus unable to rep. Anyone can go to the kill boards, plug in the fits they used on EFT and see in cold hard truth, they were terribly fit.

But yeah, answer the bolded questions James. We will all wait.