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Why CCP isn't helping Eve-Kill Team ?
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Hrothgar Nilsson
#41 - 2012-10-04 18:57:04 UTC
Imports Plus wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Because if you help one 3rd party group, you HAVE to help ALL the 3rd party groups. Otherwise, you risk looking like you are either picking favorites and/or that you are inconsistent/unreliable.


Except that the killboard and km tracking is vital to many thousands of pvp players. Any other 3rd party app is just fluff.

HELP EVE-KILL DAMMIT

Ermmm... Staticmapper, Evemaps, Eveeye, Eve-Central are incredibly useful... I use the first 3 more than Eve-Kill.

That being said, I hope they sort things out and get their funding, because it's an awesome service.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#42 - 2012-10-04 19:19:51 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
Well there is an easy fix for this, (cloud-hosting) but it means eve-kill will need to share their database killmails, if they are not greedy to keep that information then this idea will work..

How it would work


  1. Eve kill sets up a panel for people to donate sql database resources via inputting their web address, username and password setup up details with limited access just for this.
  2. Eve-kill keeps track of all databases relationships, sending 2-3 copies of the same killmails to different databases incase one goes down..
  3. When eve kill loads up its page, it will randomly select one of those hosts toget the details from.


I did post this idea in the tech forums but there was no reply..

OR

The killboard system is re-coded from scratch, its currently donkeys old and does 100's of queries per a load...
With all that cash eve-kill has made of advertisement maybee they could re-code it?

..
Karbowiak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#43 - 2012-10-04 20:00:56 UTC
NickyYo wrote:
Well there is an easy fix for this, (cloud-hosting) but it means eve-kill will need to share their database killmails, if they are not greedy to keep that information then this idea will work..

How it would work


  1. Eve kill sets up a panel for people to donate sql database resources via inputting their web address, username and password setup up details with limited access just for this.
  2. Eve-kill keeps track of all databases relationships, sending 2-3 copies of the same killmails to different databases incase one goes down..
  3. When eve kill loads up its page, it will randomly select one of those hosts toget the details from.


I did post this idea in the tech forums but there was no reply..

OR

The killboard system is re-coded from scratch, its currently donkeys old and does 100's of queries per a load...
With all that cash eve-kill has made of advertisement maybee they could re-code it?


Cloud computing isn't the end all be all of the computing world, infact you often end up with a product that is slower, and costs 5 times what you'd normally pay for a dedicated.
In our case we're paying about 500 EUR each month for our one server, if we switched to the cloud, we'd be paying 1500.. And we can barely pay the server as is :P

As for your idea with load distributing, it could work, but doing it like that seems silly and pointless - and is just wastefull with resources. Would be much better to use MySQL Cluster, but that requires a full copy of the db on each node. Which ain't gonna happen, since we wont give out the DB as is, mainly because of the massive potential of information abuse, and because people's emails are in the database.
Jot it up as greed if you want, but then remember we have the idfeed and epic running, and then rethink that position :P

Anyway, cloud bad, dedicated good..
flakeys
Doomheim
#44 - 2012-10-04 20:08:28 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Cannibal Kane wrote:


I would rather the entire concept of Killmail tracking be removed tbh.



I support this

Imports Plus wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Because if you help one 3rd party group, you HAVE to help ALL the 3rd party groups. Otherwise, you risk looking like you are either picking favorites and/or that you are inconsistent/unreliable.


Except that the killboard and km tracking is vital to many thousands of pvp players. Any other 3rd party app is just fluff.

HELP EVE-KILL DAMMIT


It's not VITAL , we managed fine before they where there.I would state the opposite , because it killed fun casual pvp.Now people only engage if they are allmost sure they win because ow my we can't have a bad k/d ratio now can we ?

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
I would rather the entire concept of Killmail tracking be removed tbh.

That's the kind of comment that prompts me to look you up on eve-kill.
So I guess you should be happy that it's down.


That's the kind of comment wich makes me think you got 15000 kills on it yet all you got is big blob ganks and allmost none to zero solo kills worth mentioning.






And to darth gustav ,these days risk averse mostly means the risk to be mocked and ridiculed by corp/alliance members because of your losses.For a lot of people that seems worse then the actuall loss of ships/isk these days and THAT is the contribution killboardds made.We did not used to have that in the ''old days''.




That said on the topic of OP.No i do not think eve-kill or battleclinic should get funding from CCP.TEchnical help is something diffferent but actuall help with funds is not.As said if you help out one party you would also need to help the other.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#45 - 2012-10-04 20:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
Karbowiak wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
Well there is an easy fix for this, (cloud-hosting) but it means eve-kill will need to share their database killmails, if they are not greedy to keep that information then this idea will work..

How it would work


  1. Eve kill sets up a panel for people to donate sql database resources via inputting their web address, username and password setup up details with limited access just for this.
  2. Eve-kill keeps track of all databases relationships, sending 2-3 copies of the same killmails to different databases incase one goes down..
  3. When eve kill loads up its page, it will randomly select one of those hosts toget the details from.


I did post this idea in the tech forums but there was no reply..

OR

The killboard system is re-coded from scratch, its currently donkeys old and does 100's of queries per a load...
With all that cash eve-kill has made of advertisement maybee they could re-code it?


Cloud computing isn't the end all be all of the computing world, infact you often end up with a product that is slower, and costs 5 times what you'd normally pay for a dedicated.
In our case we're paying about 500 EUR each month for our one server, if we switched to the cloud, we'd be paying 1500.. And we can barely pay the server as is :P

As for your idea with load distributing, it could work, but doing it like that seems silly and pointless - and is just wastefull with resources. Would be much better to use MySQL Cluster, but that requires a full copy of the db on each node. Which ain't gonna happen, since we wont give out the DB as is, mainly because of the massive potential of information abuse, and because people's emails are in the database.
Jot it up as greed if you want, but then remember we have the idfeed and epic running, and then rethink that position :P

Anyway, cloud bad, dedicated good..


I think you miss understood me. Not rent cloud servers!
But to get the eve community to donate their server resources!

And it can be done quite easily, or just recode the actual killboard because not sure if you have seen it latelybut over the pasy 8 years a lot of **** has been added to it. So many queries etc that are not needed..

I am willing to contribute to a totaly newly coded killboard system without all the junk, could do it through github.

Not sure how many visitors you get, but heres some prospective.
If Google were to put 1 extra image on its search page it would costs them millions extra in server costs just for one image.

..
RAGE QU1T
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2012-10-04 21:01:16 UTC
No T.A.R.P for EVE kill, they are not tool big TOO fail, let them die, After all with them dead this will in fact promote more PvP because people won't be so focused with their K/D ratio, and less likly be yelled at for having a crappy fits. EVE will survive without EVE-kill NO BAIL OUTS
Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#47 - 2012-10-04 22:19:19 UTC
Cyno Kidd wrote:
I understand eve-kill has hardware problems. It's something about 8.000 $ afaik. Eve-kill looks great and helps us all a lot, obviously.

Why don't CCP help Eve-kill to get the site going ? Not my business how they wanna do it.
We will be happy, CCP should be happy, Eve-kill happy ! Everybody wins !

It's a small amount of money for a company like CCP so I don't think it's a big deal for them.

They should invest or help related Eve programs that help us everyday. Dotlan, killboards ( big ones like eve-kill or battleclinic ), EveMon, etc.

Maybe I miss facts and they do help so I may just talk bullshite right now.

If anyone can clear things for me, I'll be thankful.

o/



Eve-Kill is a 3rd party service.

Eve-Kill has paying customers.

CCP doesn't "Have to", they can if they want , if they don't want I don't really see where's the problem. I'm one paying customer for CCP, so when my computer is dead CCP should give me one. And I want it NAO !!

brb
Karbowiak
State War Academy
Caldari State
#48 - 2012-10-05 09:36:37 UTC
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Cyno Kidd wrote:
I understand eve-kill has hardware problems. It's something about 8.000 $ afaik. Eve-kill looks great and helps us all a lot, obviously.

Why don't CCP help Eve-kill to get the site going ? Not my business how they wanna do it.
We will be happy, CCP should be happy, Eve-kill happy ! Everybody wins !

It's a small amount of money for a company like CCP so I don't think it's a big deal for them.

They should invest or help related Eve programs that help us everyday. Dotlan, killboards ( big ones like eve-kill or battleclinic ), EveMon, etc.

Maybe I miss facts and they do help so I may just talk bullshite right now.

If anyone can clear things for me, I'll be thankful.

o/



Eve-Kill is a 3rd party service.

Eve-Kill has paying customers.

CCP doesn't "Have to", they can if they want , if they don't want I don't really see where's the problem. I'm one paying customer for CCP, so when my computer is dead CCP should give me one. And I want it NAO !!


Actually, we have customers who pay in isk, but that doesn't exactly help us pay our bills :P
The isk payment part is only there to satisfy CCP, and to not make users rage over banners on their boards. If it was upto me, the isk part would go away
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#49 - 2012-10-05 11:20:32 UTC
Karbowiak wrote:
Lin-Young Borovskova wrote:
Cyno Kidd wrote:
I understand eve-kill has hardware problems. It's something about 8.000 $ afaik. Eve-kill looks great and helps us all a lot, obviously.

Why don't CCP help Eve-kill to get the site going ? Not my business how they wanna do it.
We will be happy, CCP should be happy, Eve-kill happy ! Everybody wins !

It's a small amount of money for a company like CCP so I don't think it's a big deal for them.

They should invest or help related Eve programs that help us everyday. Dotlan, killboards ( big ones like eve-kill or battleclinic ), EveMon, etc.

Maybe I miss facts and they do help so I may just talk bullshite right now.

If anyone can clear things for me, I'll be thankful.

o/



Eve-Kill is a 3rd party service.

Eve-Kill has paying customers.

CCP doesn't "Have to", they can if they want , if they don't want I don't really see where's the problem. I'm one paying customer for CCP, so when my computer is dead CCP should give me one. And I want it NAO !!


Actually, we have customers who pay in isk, but that doesn't exactly help us pay our bills :P
The isk payment part is only there to satisfy CCP, and to not make users rage over banners on their boards. If it was upto me, the isk part would go away


If you feel like venturing into new methods for server resources, i'll help.
Hell i even might dedicate some of my dedicated server resources..

As for asking CCP to help, it isn't going to happen.. If anything you are encouraging them to create their own mass public killboard system..

..
Adoro
Below the Asteroids Ltd.
#50 - 2012-10-05 11:40:25 UTC
RAGE QU1T wrote:
Proposes CCP take the DUST killboard template, tweeks it for EVE, lock a Dev in a closet for a month, and implement for TQ.End result CCP saves $8,000, the community aswel as CCP is no longer dependent on a third party that had ltm resources.


A dev in a closet for a month? And they still save $8000?

Most companies (in my part of the world) charge € 100,- a hour for a developer. One developer working full time costs 4000 euro a week, so 16k a month. Current exchange rate puts $8000 at 6148 euro. Thats a loss of €9852 there. Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#51 - 2012-10-05 12:24:08 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
Adoro wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
Proposes CCP take the DUST killboard template, tweeks it for EVE, lock a Dev in a closet for a month, and implement for TQ.End result CCP saves $8,000, the community aswel as CCP is no longer dependent on a third party that had ltm resources.


A dev in a closet for a month? And they still save $8000?

Most companies (in my part of the world) charge € 100,- a hour for a developer. One developer working full time costs 4000 euro a week, so 16k a month. Current exchange rate puts $8000 at 6148 euro. Thats a loss of €9852 there. Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.


lol, so many uneducated responses on here... wouldn't take a month at all. More like a week tops, If that..
Adoro wrote:
Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.

Nah, CCP don't have to do crap about it, its a 3rd party board, not as if they invented the board they simply used it from the ccp dev wiki, all eve-kill do is host it..

If you lot are so angry, damanding and concered why not donate them your monies instead?
I simply don't think CCP should donate their eve resources to someone hosting their killboard code..
If eve-kill want to setup a donation page to raise the funds of the community then fine..

..
Erehwon Rorschach
LoGisTicAl ERr0R
#52 - 2012-10-05 12:27:57 UTC
Karbowiak wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Although I am totally behind keeping Eve-Kill alive :D I wonder why the need for such high end hardware to run what's basically a database?



Problem is EDK is coded like ****, and requires so much memory to do the table joins. We have found ways to limit it and make it much faster than default EDK, but it's still memory hungry like hell.

Gallente Citizen 827473904528 wrote:
Graic Gabtar wrote:
Ilykbois Butt4Sex wrote:
There is another kill-board being constructed and looks to have great potential, it's in early stages but a viable option instead of just having eve-kill




Take a look and see what you think.


Decloaked.com
My Corp has been looking for people like you.

Anyways how long has that taken so far David?

...confusion...



CCP didn't like my name, sad times.

Anyway check the site out, it's a perfectly good alternative to eve-kill and in some ways better. Cool


Decloaked might be a fine technical example, but it's missing alot of features, and the looks aren't exactly up to par. But hey, if you want to compare Decloaked and EVE-KILL, go for it. I for one welcome the competition Smile




Same person anyway.... I wasn't going for a comparison, merely saying my opinion. In some ways eve-kill is good and on the other hand I like some of the features of Decloaked. In comparison, yes Decloaked is in early stages but looking very promising.

Because your mum just couldn't say no.
Khorkrak
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#53 - 2012-10-05 13:23:39 UTC
Wouldn't offloading the requests for the idfeed and the epic api to another lower end server that just serves these using a replica of the eve-kill database help remove some of the load on the eve-kill.net site?

Developer of http://www.decloaked.com and http://sourceforge.net/projects/pykb/
Adoro
Below the Asteroids Ltd.
#54 - 2012-10-05 14:10:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Adoro
NickyYo wrote:
Adoro wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
Proposes CCP take the DUST killboard template, tweeks it for EVE, lock a Dev in a closet for a month, and implement for TQ.End result CCP saves $8,000, the community aswel as CCP is no longer dependent on a third party that had ltm resources.


A dev in a closet for a month? And they still save $8000?

Most companies (in my part of the world) charge € 100,- a hour for a developer. One developer working full time costs 4000 euro a week, so 16k a month. Current exchange rate puts $8000 at 6148 euro. Thats a loss of €9852 there. Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.


lol, so many uneducated responses on here... wouldn't take a month at all. More like a week tops, If that..
Adoro wrote:
Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.

Nah, CCP don't have to do crap about it, its a 3rd party board, not as if they invented the board they simply used it from the ccp dev wiki, all eve-kill do is host it..

If you lot are so angry, damanding and concered why not donate them your monies instead?
I simply don't think CCP should donate their eve resources to someone hosting their killboard code..
If eve-kill want to setup a donation page to raise the funds of the community then fine..


Im not saying that CCP should give any money, just that his response about saving money is total bull

+ lol @ uneducated and "week tops" - we are not talking about your half assed ASP.net template application you click and drag in your favorite pirated Visual Studio instance. If CCP does it, it has to be done properly so yes that will take way longer than a week.
NickyYo
modro
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-10-05 14:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: NickyYo
Adoro wrote:
NickyYo wrote:
Adoro wrote:
RAGE QU1T wrote:
Proposes CCP take the DUST killboard template, tweeks it for EVE, lock a Dev in a closet for a month, and implement for TQ.End result CCP saves $8,000, the community aswel as CCP is no longer dependent on a third party that had ltm resources.


A dev in a closet for a month? And they still save $8000?

Most companies (in my part of the world) charge € 100,- a hour for a developer. One developer working full time costs 4000 euro a week, so 16k a month. Current exchange rate puts $8000 at 6148 euro. Thats a loss of €9852 there. Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.


lol, so many uneducated responses on here... wouldn't take a month at all. More like a week tops, If that..
Adoro wrote:
Nah they better give EVE-Kill the 8000 dollar.

Nah, CCP don't have to do crap about it, its a 3rd party board, not as if they invented the board they simply used it from the ccp dev wiki, all eve-kill do is host it..

If you lot are so angry, damanding and concered why not donate them your monies instead?
I simply don't think CCP should donate their eve resources to someone hosting their killboard code..
If eve-kill want to setup a donation page to raise the funds of the community then fine..


Im not saying that CCP should give any money, just that his response about saving money is total bull

+ lol @ uneducated and "week tops" - we are not talking about your half assed ASP.net template application you click and drag in your favorite pirated Visual Studio instance. If CCP does it, it has to be done properly so yes that will take way longer than a week.


LOL i know m8,
Anyways why bother with ASP.net its dirty code in my opinion.
All they got to do is take their existing PHP killboard system, cut all the **** out, retheme it and link it to a new database dump of theirs and bobs ya uncle.

My idea of Eve-Kill setting their site up so people can donate their databases and interconnect it all with about 2-3 copies of killmails is best way. Cloud computing. I would even donate a database with limits on my dedicated server for this pupose.

..
Noriko Satomi
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2012-10-05 14:46:52 UTC
Wacktopia wrote:
I have a better idea; http://pledgie.com/campaigns/18342

QF Awesomeness
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