These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Fiction

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Beyond Oruze and Osobnyk; The Jovian Empires

First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#101 - 2012-10-27 14:08:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Obviously, this is just the basest overview I am using in my head to sort the history of the Jovians. It is definately not this simply defined. Gorda Hoje, Ior Labron, Miko Bour and the philisophical shifts confuse many of these definitions, as the old Jovian bloodlines shifted into new incarnations.

New alliances formed to supplant old ones. Bloodlines changed into new incarnations, etc.. The Matari bloodlines, particularly the Starkmanir, are a good example of this trend in human histories.

A perusal of notable Jovians shows Statics and Modifiers on both sides of the seeming ideological divide. Just as we see these crossovers amongst the Gallente and the Caldari, and the Amarr and Matari..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#102 - 2012-10-27 14:32:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
In the film Revolver the major players in the conspiracy were mostly imagined by the protagonist and antagonists. In so far as it's comparison with Illuminati for instance, some of the current attachment with Illuminati is classed as a perversion. Other descriptions of the illuminati for example, read how it was for scientists to avoid the wrath of the local power players, persons that would scream herecy for saying the world was round and then rely on the appointed messenger of God, the Pope, to adjudicate based on Vatican knowledge (or knowledge that was authorised for release, if you like mystery). This method didn't quite work in other areas of the World for example.

But a lot of cliques do hold leverage in the development of society as seen specifically in the appointment of a National Leader. Few are appointed to navigate society for the many. No one ever gets it "right" because there is always a successor.

I'd make a note that the Rogue Drone pawn, is a volatile study base. Dagan is a SoCT member (flying a SoCT cruiser in the epic arc) and he is turned over to SoE. However, in the End of the World series; SoE try to pass unabated by Rogue Drones invoking humanitarian sanctity, and are turned down. Blood Raiders have access to someone that can re-code all the drones around the Blood Raider vessel rendering the Drones safe. However, in We Humans the Thukker Tribe use reasoning to pass through the Rogue Drones unabated. The difference being SoCT space has a code for control of the Rogue Drones and upload it to Blood Raiders, SoE are zealous and fail to the Rogue Drone Pincer and Thukker's talk their way through, even causing the Rogue Drones to allow their own destruction, rather than become extinct.

For the above reasons the Rogue Drones are shady ground for me, but its a fiction forum, and someone might strike the right tack.

Another social factor is; when ancestors prepared cooked meats many millenia ago, it aided digestion, facilitating rapid ingestion of the right chemicals. They did not know that we would be unable to eat raw meat every day within a couple of thousand years. But we have to.

In Edgar Allan Poe's The Purloined Letter the victor in a game of real life chess has to understand his target fundamentally in order to pierce his veil of obfuscation. With the Echelon though, the Codebreaker is stolen, Purloined means many things, but all are the removal of an item from someone else via deception. The use of the Purloined Sansha Codebreaker is, again, realised by CONCORD; being remade by them from a Mangled Sansha Codebreaker.

It hints at two opposing groups playing the spy game, what CONCORD's manufacturing process allowed or denied in functionality is not noted, except it is to be fitted only to the Echelon, made by CONCORD.

QUESTION: In the excerpt regarding the Jovian Elders
Elders Description wrote:
but some suggest they can outlive even members of the Amarrian royal families.


Was it ever proven or stated anywhere whether it meant Familial Lines of Ascension or actual people in the families?


((It read as though some families joined after Elders were born))
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#103 - 2012-10-27 14:48:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
The Royal families were assigned 1500 years ago, during the Moral Reforms.

Quote:
Heideran VII, born Keideran Kador, was a long reigning Amarr Emperor, elected roughly 300 years ago. He was a member of the Kador Family.


It is not very clear if the royalty of these families predates the Reforms, but, I would assume that they do. And the most influential were assigned this designation from historical and geneological discourse during the reforms. Harken back to the movie Braveheart when the Scottish clans debated who should be King..

No specific mention of how old Heideran was when he ascended the throne.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#104 - 2012-10-27 15:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Roga Dracor wrote:
The Royal families were assigned 1500 years ago, during the Moral Reforms.

It is not very clear if the royalty of these families predates the Reforms, but, I would assume that they do. And the most influential were assigned this designation from historical and geneological discourse during the reforms.



Thanks Roga, I've read suspicious fragments re: Amarrian Royalty and their ancestry on or around the forums and was just wondering if there was anything set in stone. Too much fiction hidden away somewhere....


It would be odd either way, but genetically engineered bodies being unable to live longer than an Amarrian is the least plausible, in my opinion.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#105 - 2012-10-28 18:05:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Borascus, one clarification on your post;

Quote:
I'd make a note that the Rogue Drone pawn, is a volatile study base. Dagan is a SoCT member (flying a SoCT cruiser in the epic arc) and he is turned over to SoE.


Dagan is not turned over to the SoE, he is turned over, still in his escape pod, and screaming in terror, to a free navigating Rogue Drone construct under the watchful eye of four seperate Empire battleships, as shown here.. This is an actual screenshot taken from the last instance I ran the arc.. Also, notice the plasma like cloud surrounding the battleships. Lutins.. It is very reminiscient of a parlance under a flag of truce.. Or a prisoner exchange..

As soon as you turn him over, the Construct disappears, using translocation or a Jump Drive technology of some sort, leaving only you, the battleships and the Lutins on the field..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#106 - 2012-10-28 20:40:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
You know what; you're right, only the standings are applied to SoE. The reason behind the SoE reward led me to collusion. Obviously in error.


On that topic though, the redundant Yan Jung (Deltole) are based in / around the Contested Deltole Skeleton Comet (which is depleted of resources) and the Drone Infested Corridor has a Rogue Drone Construct being built.

Although the drone construct is documented in Arek'Jaalan's Rogue Drone Section all the spawns need to be blown up (including FON) in order to progress to the next stage, but the Rogue Drones in the Deltole Comet (Vast Drone Hive) are: Watch Drones, Drone Workers, Drone Perimeter Guards and Demolisher Drones.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#107 - 2012-10-28 21:47:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
I do it alot...Blink

In regards to the Yan Jungs site, the Arek Jaalan discussion post arc overview suggests the Hive Mother tries to destroy the "new" strain of drones that are assimilating the Yan Jung technology out of a jealous regard for her own authority. While such may be true, it may also be due to the fact that these new drones are not an emergent society at all. And they may be, as I suspect, an assimilation of the drone technology by an outside influence not related to her species, i.e. a Jovian faction.

Dronietta, discovered in the follow up and a remnant of the new strain, is an Aether Drone and associates herself with ORE. Interesting to note, before a retcon, Dronietta represented herself as a Jovian. Still like to run the missions myself, if your up for it..

And ORE's ownership is split 60/40 while 100% anonymous..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#108 - 2012-10-28 22:09:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
ORE have been quite isolated out near Cloud Ring for a long time since the big Nocxium find.


Former CEO Yani Sar Arteu has fully fleshed out page, although it states ORE is now owned by the Serpentis Corporation. Outer Ring does have a naming convention for the Constellations though.


If The Sanctuary wanted to examine the Cloud Ring in detail from the Outer Ring site, maybe Sarparti sold stake to his sister? Could also be the syndicate.


Quote:
Named by noted Intaki astronomer Alnadil Jouber, the central constellations of this region are encompassed by a massive ring of dust and gas expelled from an ancient stellar catastrophe of colossal proportions. The first to observe and detail this phenomenon from observatories in the Placid region, Jouber went on to theorize that analysis of the extent, density, and rate of expansion of the ring could give insight as to what monumental event may have caused such a disturbance and when it might have occurred. He further theorized that such an explosion may have had far-reaching gravitic effects that could destabilize wormholes, and may have been a contributing factor to the collapse of the EVE Gate. While later researchers have discounted many of his ideas, the validity of his theories has yet to be categorically disproven. It is noteworthy that the Sisters of EVE maintain several bases in Placid, from which scientific expeditions to study the Cloud Ring are coordinated.


Around ORE's territory are a lot of COSMOS related "historical" locations.




Roga Dracor wrote:
I do it alot...Blink
Bah, lotta ambiguity in the report, care to run the missions with me sometime?


Wouldn't mind, I was up there the other day.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#109 - 2012-10-28 22:16:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Or, Silphy may have.. As stated in Jita 4-4, it is very hard to know who actually owns what. Looking at the highly anonymous state of many corporate ownerships, only the lawyers know for sure..Ugh

Of note in Ante anyway, is the apparent rapport that Santimona has with Ishukone and Mordu's Legion... A rapport she seems to hide even from her own organization..

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#110 - 2012-10-29 12:09:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Borascus
Roga Dracor wrote:
Or, Silphy may have.. As stated in Jita 4-4, it is very hard to know who actually owns what. Looking at the highly anonymous state of many corporate ownerships, only the lawyers know for sure..Ugh

Of note in Ante anyway, is the apparent rapport that Santimona has with Ishukone and Mordu's Legion... A rapport she seems to hide even from her own organization..


It's one of the plot lines I would have expected had the most footfall tbh, if each page hit denotes demand the higher the number of page hits the higher the demand. With the Pirates tho, each mission that is run or each jump through faction-npc space also indicates demand, same with barge purchases.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#111 - 2012-10-29 15:28:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Trying to get back on track, let's look again at the Talocan.. They seem to have been a society of recyclers. They lived off the refuse of mankind and this is the evidence that ties them to the Sleepers. The Talocan were the gabagemen of human society. It also ties them solidly to the 5th caste, the outcaste, the Jove. Take the Talocan Extraction Silo, a structure that must be mirrored by a more advanced Sleeper structure or structures;

Quote:
This towering structure contains all the basic elements of a regular silo: cavernous storage areas, thick walls, extensive ventilation, etc. Based on the scans of this silo, however, the silo’s previous contents are unknown. The residue from inside reveals nothing known in modern times, or even odd genetic combinations. Whatever its contents, the silo emits an unfamiliar – and uneasy – presence.

I am relatively certain these structures are Anaerobic Digestion Facilities.

This conclusion is backed up by the recurring presence of Gas Reservoirs in wormhole space. And shows that the Sleepers, or their automated systems, are still using this process. And it likely helps power their thermo-electric convertors. An increase in the Sleepers defense of the reservoirs shows the importance that is still placed upon them.

C3-FTM (C3-fullero-tris-methanodicarboxylic acid ties the Talocan in theory also to the Yan Jungs[1][2]. Not wishing to get too deep in the chemistry, which is mind boggling, even in the basics, it is a dicarboxylic acid chain polymer of carbon and methane. See the links, and hopefully the parallels become evident. If not, I am working on a writeup for C3, but, it is a tough study, as high school chemistry is beneath the task.Roll

In the chronicle And Sometimes The Fear, we see the possible neuro-electronic properties of combining crystals and gas, note the Yan Jung references above. Which is solid evidence for the postulate that Lutins are lifeforms. A postulate that includes both Talocan and Yan Jungs in it's supporting evidence. Meaning at the very least, they knew of each others areas of specialty. Specialties the Rogue Drones have studied in more detail than we humans have, incorporating these technologies into the core of their society.

Need more evidence? How about this quote from The Resurrection Men?

Quote:
"Scanners?" Rokan asked.

"Cellular. Gaseous form," H told him.

"Seriously? Why not ocular, or DNA?"

"Those rely on body parts," H said. "Can't trust them."

This ties into a couple inocuous little lines in Jita 4-4.

Quote:
Something that looks like a turret is trained on me as I follow her, swiveling from its mount in the ceiling as it slowly spreads a web of red light over me.

Not sure what that just was.

Think on this and look for the telltale signs of the Lutins as you ply your trades in New Eden, capsuleers. They are everywhere..

Quote:
Once we were mighty,
Stars bent to our will,
Our reach was infinite,
Our power incontestable,
With outstretched hands we tried,
To touch the face of perfection,
But we came too close,
To that which is not due mortals,
And our punishment is our curse,
Our endless sorrow.
- Translation of an old Jovian poem

Given the outline that we can see of the cluster's history, we can look at this poem, most likely penned by Gorda Hoje or one of his students, and gain further insights. Gorda was a philanthropist, something that is rare in Jovian psychology. Translation, they think themselves above most of humanity. A very Sani Sabik philosophy. The 'doctrine of power'..

Quote:
"I am Manifest Divinity, Unmanifest Divinity, and Transcendent Divinity. I am Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva, as well as Saraswati, Lakshmi and Parvati. I am the Sun and I am the Stars, and I am also the Moon. I am all animals and birds, and I am the outcaste as well, and the thief. I am the low person of dreadful deeds, and the great person of excellent deeds. I am Female, I am Male, and I am Neuter."

Personified in Jamyl Sarum, by the way...

It is also clear, this was not always so, the Jovians developed this philosophy\psychology shortly before or after coming to New Eden.

Take each line of the poem and disect it, what do you see? Our power incontestable? Did someone try? Perfection? Utopia? To that which is not due mortals? Immortality? Endless sorrow? Did they come close? I would say they did.. Right before the Shrouded Days. But, shrouded by what? Circumstance or design? Who cloaked or recycled much of the evidence to that period in New Eden's history? And why did Lianda Burreau "burn like Seylinn"?

Where I am? Hydrostatic Pods and Static Gates.. Muses and Melancholy... Maybe...

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#112 - 2012-10-31 11:25:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Which brings us to the heart of the matter. The one thing that ties everything together, and remains so enigmaticly obtuse while being so obviously prevalent in New Eden Society.

That one thing that is so universally untouched upon due to personal bias, abject denial and outright hostility. Whether from a desire to be empathetic, irreverent or politically correct. Religion.

The Unified Catholic Church is all around us, in a no longer unified state. What current Empire is not driven by some theological imperative? Whether the Amarr's stringent adherence to God's Law handed down by it's Messianic Empress or the Gallente's ardent defense of God Given Right. Matari Shamanistic, God is everywhere Tribalism or the Daoist Way of the Caldari State, where ancestors are honored and money is God, religion is all encompassing. Our ship names are derived from the mythologies of ancient humanity. Temples stand as the central showcase to almost every Cosmos arc. Symbology abounds in every control structure in the cluster.

Everyone almost unilaterally hates the idea, but, who can empirically deny the basic tenant? CCP used the one thing almost everyone would disagree on. The one thing that has the power to unite or divide us utterly. Religion. Even the aetheist is tied to it by his or her unequivocal denial of it's premise.

Whether the Yan Jungs were representative of the Unified Catholic Church or the Jove remains unclear, but, what is clear is they understood the control mechanisms utilized by this enigmatic structure in New Eden's early history. And more so, that they utilized it on many levels.

We see the honorific nods to many sci fi classics in Eve. This is a nod to psychohistory and the technocore. It is a nod to the Zensunni Wanderers and the Orange Catholic Bible. The Unified Catholic Church must have been a syncretic religion. But, evidence suggests it was something much more than this.

Quote:
The Bene Gesserit practice "religious engineering" through a faction called the Missionaria Protectiva, which spreads contrived myths, prophecies and superstition on primitive worlds so that the Sisterhood may later exploit those regions. It is later confirmed that the Fremen religion has been thus influenced.


"All the Sisters of EVE ever asked for in return for their humanitarian assistance was permission to construct cathedrals dedicated to their faith, and over the years they had perfected the science and art of completing such structures in a matter of mere hours."

As have all religions been "pre-conditioned" in the Eve Universe.. This is the premise of the Unified Catholic Church. A premise that the Yan Jungs understood and emulated. It is a premise the Amarr and the Society of Conscious Thought and the Sister's of Eve understand. Religion is the last thing any society will lose, if ever. If you are able to manipulate belief, you hold a power above all others for control.

"Religion often partakes of the myth of progress that shields us from the terrors of an uncertain future." Muad Dib

And this ideology is also reflected in the most recent events in New Eden...

Quote:
It is with reason and terrible experience that we call the pre-born Abomination. For who knows what lost and damned persona out of our evil past may take over the living flesh?

Genetic personality retrieval.. Anyone see the parallels here? He shall commute your souls to Dust..

The Apocryphon reads very much like the Azhar Book, reflects the Jovian Truth Serum poem and makes a mockery of empiricism and a strictly defined theology. No wonder it is such an abomination to the Theology Council. And why our empirically minded scientists at Arek Jaalan will never find the Truth. They were set up to fail.

This quote very much reminds me of the Jovians, and is reflected in Anoikis..

Quote:
Before us, instinct-ridden researchers possessed a limited attention span — often no longer than a single lifetime. Projects stretching across fifty or more generations never occurred to them. The concept of total muscle/nerve training had not entered their awareness. We learned how to learn.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#113 - 2012-10-31 13:57:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Bloodpetal alludes, in this thread, to the protagonist in Jita 4-4 belonging to a class of capsuleers who are something more. The protagonist herself calls them cohorts..

Quote:
The question: What if we just stayed out there and never returned to another clone?

What if we could live out there, and build a bright and better world in that space between?


As to diminishing scale, Bloodpetal, how many do you think will take what I say to heart? How many will believe what I say is a possibility? How many of them have an expanded subjective platform that allows it? How many have recieved the instruction needed to make it so? How many have submerged themselves in the curriculum?Twisted

Question

CCP probably has a good idea of the numbers...

One more question before I'm off to more productive endeavors. What is the difference between a Sleeper and a Talocan?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#114 - 2012-11-01 10:47:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
No bites? Cry

OK, let's take C3.. The protagonist, and the merchant she acquires the C3 from speak of compartmentalization. Now, are they speaking of taking a part of the mind and injecting it in a clone? I think not. The whole thing speaks of a misdirect, and alludes to posers who don't get it.

C3 works on a cellular level, down to the molecular level. And the protagonist speaks of diminishing levels. C3 is an aldehyde solution and an oxidizing agent, one that is activated by extremely high temperatures in an organic redox reaction. As in reducing organs to organelles, or making individual cells infinitely more efficient. What she is really speaking of is compartmentalizing the mind, from the mind\body dichotomy. And, in effect, getting rid of all the baggage the brain cells need to feed themselves, a body, and all the metabolic bits and pieces that are required for the process.

Quote:
The division to prokaryotes and eukaryotes reflects two distinct levels of cellular organization rather than biological classification of species.

In effect, the mind becomes a bonded agent in a multicellular sentient bacterial culture. One that is free flowing, as a fragrance bonds to the very air molecules around us. Much more like a thinking virus, actually. An infinitely more efficient model of Sansha's Head in a Jar.

So what does this have to do with Sleepers and Talocans? Or more specifically, the differences between? What is it that has been recovered of the Sleepers that has never been recovered of the Talocan? Why have the insides of every Talocan ship been stripped bare, leaving only a shell? What was missing from Lianda Burreau's ship? And what apparently viral or bacteriological agent were the Sleepers trying to hold in quarantine? Why do they use drones?

Why do the Jove think the Enhuadanni, with their mastery of genetics and biotechnology, could save them from the genetic disease that plagues them? If not, what were the contributing factors prohibiting such a cure? Abraxus and some of the other Devs must be fans of Babylon 5, because there are alot of direct correlations between it and the current direction of Eve fiction.

How do I know, well, because I, too, am a huge fan of B5.. Zathras knows The One.. Blink

To rationalize all of this, some acceptance of General Semantics is neccesary... Or, in simpler terms, since I have been accused of using my own language, which I am. Blink

I will attempt to use someone elses;

Quote:
THE MAP IS NOT THE TERRITORY
The world is what it is. We can make all kinds of maps and models of how the world works, and some of them can be very useful, and we can talk about them with great benefit. But the models and maps and any words one can put together can never do more than approximate the actual world or the actual phenomena being examined. The actual territory is beyond verbal description.
As humans we make abstractions all the time. An "abstraction", as used here, is that one simplifies, condenses, or symbolizes what is going on in order to better talk about it or think about it.

For example, if I walk down the street, I might experience an event taking place. My perceptions in themselves constitute an abstraction. Different people will experience the event differently, depending on where they perceive it from and how their perceptions work, and it will never be more than a portion of what went on, passed through certain filters of perception. So, I will record certain sights, sounds, feelings and so forth, which will form my representation of the event. I might then start describing what I experienced and that will abstract it further. I could say "I saw two cars, a blue Ford going west and a green Honda going east, and the blue car was going to turn left, but then the green car swerved out of its way and hit it". My description might give somebody else an idea of what went on, but really it is a very imprecise approximation of what I actually perceived, which is again an imprecise approximation of what actually went on. The next day I might create a further abstraction by simply saying that I saw "an accident".

If somebody took my verbal description of an accident as WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED, then all kinds of mistakes might come out of that. But if one always realizes that it is only a map, and that different maps might be drawn for the same territory, then it becomes much easier to reconcile differences.

Whatever one can say about something isn't it. Whatever you can say about a pencil is NOT a pencil. The pencil is what it is, something fundamentally unspeakable. If that is recognized then language and models are of couse very useful in daily life.

I am me, how could I ever be anything but?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#115 - 2012-11-03 15:26:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
Backtracking a bit to religion, I see the religion of the Unified Catholic Church to reflect a philosophy of Agnostic or Atheistic Moralism.. Something akin to what Thomas Jefferson (a personal role model) declared as his own Christian faith. Stripping out the miraculous and ambiguous circumstances of Christ's life and inserting him into the position of a wise and scholarly teacher of what a human should truly aspire to.

A stance that we stand beside our neighbor, for the betterment of all humanity. Not as an imperative of some divine being, whose existence could likely never be proven. But, as the culmination of thoughtful introspection and careful study of the realities of being, or Rationalism, a method or a theory "in which the criterion of the truth is not sensory but intellectual and deductive". The ending of this work is thus;

Quote:
"Now, in the place where He was crucified, there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus. And rolled a great stone to the door of the sepulchre, and departed."


The Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom exemplifies this stance, and is one of three accomplishments he asked to be included in his epitaph.

The current interpretations of, both of which are relevent, show what a sad and uninformed nation we have become. And how far we have fallen from the aspirations of our Founding Fathers. (Sorry for the opinion, but, I think it needful to express it, given the elections upcoming in my homeland) Blink

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#116 - 2012-11-03 17:09:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
“What was many now becomes one when one becomes four.”

Modal Realism - Metaphysical Nihilism - Counterpart Theory - The Precious Tableaux

Quote:
How many [possible worlds] are there? In what respects do they vary, and what is common to them all? Do they obey a nontrivial law of identity of indiscernibles? Here I am at a disadvantage compared to someone who pretends as a figure of speech to believe in possible worlds, but really does not. If worlds were creatures of my imagination, I could imagine them to be any way I liked, and I could tell you all you wished to hear simply by carrying on my imaginative creation. But as I believe that there really are other worlds, I am entitled to confess that there is much about them that I do not know, and that I do not know how to find out.


"Who are you?" "What do you want?" "Who am I?" "What do I want?" "Is there a substantial difference?"

Binary Opposition - Jovian Trinary Structure

Or Trichotomy and the Reduction Thesis..

Which brings about the triconic ideas of existence from the mind\body dichotomy..

Quote:
“First is the conception of being or existing independent of anything else. Second is the conception of being relative to, the conception of reaction, with something else. Third is the conception of mediation, whereby a first and a second are brought into relation."

And the summation of what we can be...

We are as we are, but, is there a different as that we can be?Blink

Thomas Paine once wrote;
Quote:
The scientific principles that man employs to obtain the foreknowledge of an eclipse, or of any thing else relating to the motion of the heavenly bodies, are contained chiefly in that part of science that is called trigonometry, or the properties of a triangle, which, when applied to the study of the heavenly bodies, is called astronomy; when applied to direct the course of a ship on the ocean, it is called navigation; when applied to the construction of figures drawn by a rule and compass, it is called geometry; when applied to the construction of plans of edifices, it is called architecture; when applied to the measurement of any portion of the surface of the earth, it is called land-surveying. In fine, it is the soul of science. It is an eternal truth: it contains the mathematical demonstration of which man speaks, and the extent of its uses are unknown.

I leave you again with a few questions.. Is Jovian Trinary Data what we have thought of it as? What does it contain (Yan Jung Trigonometric Laws)? Is there a double meaning here, as in so much of what CCP has given us to chew on?

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#117 - 2012-11-05 14:56:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
I really must, at some point tie religion into the big picture, but have refrained from doing so because of personal sensitivities and past cries of racism and bigotry. Without it, though, not much sense can be made of my premise..

As I have stated, religion is central to the mysteries. It ties all the races together in a common origin theory.. And is only relevent to any current religion in allegory and metaphor. Much as Latin and Persian has been used by role players to approximate Amarrian. Without a base frame of reference, noone will ever make sense of any of it, and we might as well give up.

The Unified Catholic Church is that base reference for the religions of New Eden, from the Amarr to the Caldari to the Gallente to the Matari.

For instance, why is a Gallente ship, the Ishtar, reflected in a Persian manifestation, instead of a Greek, such as Aphrodite? Just because it sounds cooler? Hardly. If you can't see the relevence, I must postulate you blind.

Look at the myths surrounding Ishtar and the parallels to the Jovians.. Or, more properly, the Enheduanni and the Sleepers.

Look at Cold Wind, of Caldari mythology, or more properly, North Wind, Boreus. And his association with the Dzungarion Gate, where from he issues in Greek myth. The associations of the Hyperboreans with the Chinese (Yan Jungs). It also states a trust your heart over your eyes theme. Beauty and the Beast and a few other fairy tales..Blink

Quote:
Neither disease nor bitter old age is mixed in their sacred blood; far from labor and battle they live.

Look at the Sefrim of Amarr myth, and their parallels to the Sephardic Customs of Judaism, including the current Kosher slaughter of animals. Think on the Sabik customs of blooding and their belief that not everyone is worthy of being called human. Takmahl is very close to a combination of Tanakh and Mal. It is a derogatory applied to a people by the Amarrians when they outlawed the cult. Much as Jews were accused of eating children in Europe, as Wyke Mossari has stated elsewhere..

Think on the worship of black Kali, and her association with Shaktism and the Thuggees. Think also on the alliance Shaktipat Revelators and the Shakti Peetha as their shrines. Take a look at the Talocan and Takmahl Cosmos sites, one is "The Devil's Dig" and the other associated heavily with Sani Sabik.. Digs can be a pseudonym for something else (a residence) in modern society..

The Daevas of Zoroastrian(Amarrian) myth are evil or, at least contrary to the "good works" of God that Zoroastrianism concentrates on. While the Devas of Hindu and Bhuddist myth make them manifestations of the Gods. The female form is Devi, and the basis for the word Devil..

The Takmahl have an item called "AstralTreatment", which ties into the whole idea of beings of light, or Lutins.. As well as, a term in microbiology..

All this ties heavily into semantics and semiotic theory, with relevence given where our minds see it. Interactive storytelling...

The Angel Cartel has a class of officers or ships known as Nephelim.. Drawn from technology of the Jovians. One would also think the Angel Cartel has a very good understanding of what the Jovians were really like.

Why have two apparently disparate groups such as Sansha's Nation and The Blood Raider Covenant allied themselves? Surely their ideologies must come to blows, in the end.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#118 - 2012-11-05 17:49:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Roga Dracor
In the most recent events in New Eden pirates raided a world for the IsirisPoppy, a plant used in Matari Shamanist riituals. A search on Wikipedia redirects to Osiris, the Egyptian guide to the Dead. There is no such poppy existent, but it shares a unique nonemclature with the Iris, another plant that has tenuous connection to the Eye. Another of the semiotic links we find in the fiction.. A hybrid, perhaps?

Of note is, the rhizomes of the Iris can be toxic.. Iris is also a messenger goddess in Greek myth.. Depending upon inflection and vowel structure, Isiris could be pronounced Eye's Iris..

Looking a bit deeper we see the Contending of Horus and Seth, Nephelim is often translated to mean the children of Seth...

Quote:
Offspring of Seth: The Qumran (Dead Sea Scroll) fragment 4Q417 (4QInstruction) contains the earliest known reference to the phrase "children of Seth", stating that God has condemned them for their rebellion. Other early references to the offspring of Seth rebelling from God and mingling with the daughters of Cain, are found in rabbi Shimon bar Yochai, Augustine of Hippo, Julius Africanus, and the Letters attributed to St. Clement. It is also the view expressed in the modern canonical Amharic Ethiopian Orthodox Bible.

The consequences of which, apparently, could bear heavily on Jamyl Sarum's rule.. Inferring, somewhere in Amarrian scripture, there is precedence... A prophecy of Roga Dracor? Lol

Quote:
This triad not only determines the heir to the throne, but it also suggests that the king must be male, which causes trouble for women who became kings, such as Hatshepsut of the eighteenth dynasty.

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Roga Dracor
Gladiators of Rage
Fraternity.
#119 - 2012-11-05 19:59:49 UTC
If it can be imagined... Check out Jack Frost... P

It's no use going back to yesterday, because I was a different person then, and it's a poor sort of memory that only works backward.
Borascus
#120 - 2012-11-05 20:30:37 UTC
There is still a prevalent culture of peoples that use hallucinogens to search the soul for answers in the underworld, however the Isirus poppy seems more akin to opium based on its medicinal properties.

Taking it in it's connotated form as facilitating conversation with the spirit world, the Black Mountain Chronicle holds a few juxtaposing statements; in The First Half the Book of Emptiness is described, it should be noted that in the linked book of emptiness chronicle it is discovered on Athra just after the moral reforms 1500 years ago.

It's descriptions in the more recent (in the timeline) chronicles of Black Mountain contain the following:

Quote:
Since its discovery, this little piece of equipment had become the very basis of their mission. It came from a set of several catalysts that had just recently surfaced and, according to the Sisters' analysis, gave final proof that the Book not only existed but had also surfaced outside Jove space


Quote:
They themselves were safe from the Book's effects, something apparently to do with a combination of genetic makeup, personal strength, and simple immunity to having their brains scrambled for peace. The Book, Nale had been told, would reach into people's minds and forcibly eliminate warlike, angry and hateful tendencies, and would probably lobotomize the poor bastards in the process if set on too high a level.


However, an illustrative process is used to add to a level of dream-induction:

Quote:
Around him the spirits flow over the cliffs and plunge into the ocean, joining its waves. He wonders if he should turn back, but he knows that even if he tried, the onrush of spirits would turn against him and push him off. This is his path. This has always been his path.

He stands there, looking into the abyss.

For a moment he is filled with fear, uncertainty and loneliness, the last vestiges of his past existence. But they fade away like the other shadowy spirits, passing out of him, never to return. He knows what he is and what he wants, what he has always wanted.

He steels himself, and he takes a deep breath, and he jumps. And as he falls he turns in the air, looks up and sees Draea standing at the top of the cliff. She glares down at him, her pale skin standing out among the ethereal shadows that surround her. One of those shadows seemed more substantial than the rest, hovering motionlessly behind Draea while the others float back and forth, but he can't make out what or who it is.


Returning to the book of emptiness, and the story of the Sefrim in Amarrian Culture, the book of emptiness may also have been the facilitator in the story, for the 100 years of peace.

The chronicle Ametat and Avetat is set 6,000 years ago, and the book of emptiness is found 1,500 years ago. I cannot see why it would be present on Athra (now Amarr) 1,500 years ago with the Amarrian Conquests and war in full swing.