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Propopsed AI changes and their effect. [UPDATED]
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Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#201 - 2012-10-05 05:40:03 UTC
Proteus.

Or if you can't adapt or afford one, whine on the forums.

.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#202 - 2012-10-05 08:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Golar Crexis wrote:
S'No Flake wrote:
Golar Crexis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
Site ganks in WHs happen ALL the time and sleepers have always have this kind of AI so I don't see this as much of an issue.


Yeah.....

Let me just highlight the part I found most relevant.

So while I respect wormholers and the hijinks they get up to, I believe you guys have it easy. No Local, no intel channels and no jumpbridges for that home def fleet chasing you.

But hey thanks for posting man.


Heh... you know.. is not that easy in a WH as you make it look like :)


Yeah I know.

I honestly respect and admire wormholers and I am quite jealous of both the isk they make and the no local they get to have

I also recognize the down side of living in a pos and having to deal with that horrible horrible interface and mechanics.



I just wanted to point out that the difference between null-sec and wormholes is local and all the powerful intel tools that are available to the common ratter.

Wormholes function fine without local because sites of interest must be probed down (probes cannot be cloaked or hidden), because hot-drops are literally impossible, and because they're secluded and difficult to reach.

Golar Crexis wrote:
Actually just very quickly but have you ever heard of chimes in the context of eve? Since local is now compact some clever sod has made a simple program that watches your local window while you rat and immediately chimes when a red enters local, thus allowing for semi afk ratting in null-sec with incredibly reduced risk.

Doing so is also a violation of the Terms of Service just as much as botting itself is.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Golar Crexis
Donald Trump Real Estate
#203 - 2012-10-05 11:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Golar Crexis
Roime wrote:
Proteus.

Or if you can't adapt or afford one, whine on the forums.



Yes because 1 month old newbs should be in a proteus. And seprentis and guriste's don't shoot a prteus damage type.

\o/ truly we fail at adapting our low-skill pilots to these changes.

Quote:

Doing so is also a violation of the Terms of Service just as much as botting itself is.


I would actually like to know ccp's stance on this. From my point of view its an exploit using out of game 3rd party software. I don't see it as botting simply cause all it does is monitor a chat window and then ping to alert the pilot.
It would be really nice if we could get ccp's stance on this, although even if they say its a banning offense I really doubt they will be able to detect or catch people using it.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#204 - 2012-10-05 13:25:37 UTC
Any word of when this is going back up on test server? There are some more things I want to test and give feedback on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#205 - 2012-10-05 13:41:13 UTC
Capqu wrote:
Any word of when this is going back up on test server? There are some more things I want to test and give feedback on.

It appears Duality will be down for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure if that means no testing at all until the 19th, or if we'll have an opportunity elsewhere.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#206 - 2012-10-05 14:06:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Capqu wrote:
Any word of when this is going back up on test server? There are some more things I want to test and give feedback on.

It appears Duality will be down for a couple of weeks. I'm not sure if that means no testing at all until the 19th, or if we'll have an opportunity elsewhere.


Thanks for the info, kind of annoying but I'm sure it can't be helped. Guess we'll have to wait and see then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#207 - 2012-10-05 14:31:47 UTC
Capqu wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:

Edit: Actually, whats the point in even arguing. CCP have made it very, very clear that they're turning this into Hello Kitty Online. Failwatch, miner buff, and more. By winter 2014 all PVE will be instanced and only corp members can access those pockets of space.


If you have this view, why are you arguing for making null sec ratting safer? I agree that WH PVE is harder than K space PVE, but an AI change is not going to change that, or indeed make K space PVE harder in the majority of cases. All it does for the average ratter (read: solo tengu/drake without drones out) is make the ratter more likely to survive being tackled, a situation they had ample time to avoid.


Except I'm NOT arguing for making k-space PVE easier or "safer". I happen to believe we can have more intelligent npcs without making it "safer" - so long as the 'templates' aren't too easy. Bring on the neuts, extreme aggression, target switching, and more... and if we fix local, because lets face it, a frigate rat shooting at you as you try to kill a bear is nowhere near as big a safety net as local being instant and infallible.
MadMuppet
Critical Mass Inc
#208 - 2012-10-05 15:30:31 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
I'm trying really hard to have sympathy for the gankers here, I really am, but I would rather have the new AI implemented and their concerns be address after all the PVE missioner tears clear (and they will... "WTF? My Drones!") than to delay it because of a few people being unhappy from the nerf.

I will follow that up by mentioning that I have been on the receiving ends of enough nerfs that I have almost no sympathy for anybody getting nerfed. In the past I was running back from SiSi screaming that the changes were going to cause issues and it fell on deaf ears (unified inventory). So, don't worry, they'll fix it in the long run and it wont be like the old times, but they will tell you it is.



This one wins best badpost of the thread award. So because other people didn't listen when you warned them, you stop listening to warning? That's childish IMO.

The underlined part is a big problem for me, the people cheering this proposal are actually cheering bad design thinking, inefficiency and wasted money. in other words, not being good customers, because good customers demand excellence not "well, yall can fix it later down the road I guess".

CCP should try to do it right the 1st time. Telling us "this is a change we believe in" (the DEVS own words) while then telling us how it's going to negatively affect a pvp tactic it's not meant to change, or how it's not even going to register with people who don't use drones ect ect, is very bad policy on their part.


You're right, it is a defeatist post, I won't deny it, but CCP doesn't listen to these kind of complaints until after the damage is done and I doubt very much that this is going to be any different this time. The feature has been announced, a date has been set, the train has left the station. Unless this feature makes the game itself unplayble or is a huge security issue it is going to be implemented.

TLDR : I do not disagree with you that CCP should do it right the first time, but the design process is already passed the decision stage.

This message brought to you by Experience(tm). When common sense fails you, experience will come to the rescue. Experience(tm) from the makers of CONCORD.

"If you are part of the problem, you will be nerfed." -MadMuppet
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#209 - 2012-10-05 15:58:32 UTC
MadMuppet wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
MadMuppet wrote:
I'm trying really hard to have sympathy for the gankers here, I really am, but I would rather have the new AI implemented and their concerns be address after all the PVE missioner tears clear (and they will... "WTF? My Drones!") than to delay it because of a few people being unhappy from the nerf.

I will follow that up by mentioning that I have been on the receiving ends of enough nerfs that I have almost no sympathy for anybody getting nerfed. In the past I was running back from SiSi screaming that the changes were going to cause issues and it fell on deaf ears (unified inventory). So, don't worry, they'll fix it in the long run and it wont be like the old times, but they will tell you it is.



This one wins best badpost of the thread award. So because other people didn't listen when you warned them, you stop listening to warning? That's childish IMO.

The underlined part is a big problem for me, the people cheering this proposal are actually cheering bad design thinking, inefficiency and wasted money. in other words, not being good customers, because good customers demand excellence not "well, yall can fix it later down the road I guess".

CCP should try to do it right the 1st time. Telling us "this is a change we believe in" (the DEVS own words) while then telling us how it's going to negatively affect a pvp tactic it's not meant to change, or how it's not even going to register with people who don't use drones ect ect, is very bad policy on their part.


You're right, it is a defeatist post, I won't deny it, but CCP doesn't listen to these kind of complaints until after the damage is done and I doubt very much that this is going to be any different this time. The feature has been announced, a date has been set, the train has left the station. Unless this feature makes the game itself unplayble or is a huge security issue it is going to be implemented.

TLDR : I do not disagree with you that CCP should do it right the first time, but the design process is already passed the decision stage.


Oh I know, I just have a little more faith in CCP, because ever since the "riots" they have seemed to be more forth coming.

I guess this issue is so interesting to me because in some ways it kind of feels like CCP was starting to "backslide" into some old disastrous , wasteful ways.
Probebly Afk Cloaking
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#210 - 2012-10-05 16:15:17 UTC
posting in a boehoe they nerf my playstyle thread


Gun Gal wrote:
Its good, but I see your whine.

You are sad that you cannot take advantage of all the aggro being on the ratter, with you to soak him as well


The new system will make you possible a target as well.

Perfect! Lets face it, it is a bad game mechanic that let that happen in the first place, and you should be a target, after all the enemy hates you too.

Suck it up princess



^this

adept
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#211 - 2012-10-05 16:16:21 UTC
Probebly Afk Cloaking wrote:


^this

adept


Learning to spell is a great adaptation.
Probebly Afk Cloaking
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#212 - 2012-10-05 16:25:15 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Probebly Afk Cloaking wrote:


^this

adept


Learning to spell is a great adaptation.



could not care less,... tho than i probebly should not react,.. i probebly care

english is not my first language,

yeah i know it for sure now, i care

whining gramer police
Probebly Afk Cloaking
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#213 - 2012-10-05 16:27:51 UTC
Probebly Afk Cloaking wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Probebly Afk Cloaking wrote:


^this

adept


Learning to spell is a great adaptation.



could not care less,... tho than i probebly should not react,.. i probebly care

english is not my first language,

yeah i know it for sure now, i care

whining gramer police


hope in before police, needs extra ''m''
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#214 - 2012-10-22 09:40:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Capqu
Test server is back up. No major changes, still on track to destroy multiple play-styles for no real benefit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#215 - 2012-10-22 09:46:57 UTC
Did i read the Dev only say
Solo gameplay .........




and bad things happening to AFK droneboats from this change is good.
Darth Khasei
Wavestar Business Ventures Inc.
#216 - 2012-10-22 13:32:42 UTC
Respect. Cool

So now every mission will be like Mordus headhunters/sleeper sites and aggro and kill your drones even with heavy micro management due to flight time ?

Ok...I look forward to the spike in my drones sales.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#217 - 2012-10-22 13:52:52 UTC
Darth Khasei wrote:
Respect. Cool

So now every mission will be like Mordus headhunters/sleeper sites and aggro and kill your drones even with heavy micro management due to flight time ?

Ok...I look forward to the spike in my drones sales.


Nope not really, and anyone who's losing that many drones, that quickly, is doing it wrong.
If you use the right drones, and drone upgrades it's easy to achieve minimal drone losses.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#218 - 2012-10-22 14:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
Golar Crexis wrote:
Actually just very quickly but have you ever heard of chimes in the context of eve? Since local is now compact some clever sod has made a simple program that watches your local window while you rat and immediately chimes when a red enters local, thus allowing for semi afk ratting in null-sec with incredibly reduced risk.


"Doing so is also a violation of the Terms of Service just as much as botting itself is."

Actually no, because the program does not control the client.

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Tobiaz
Spacerats
#219 - 2012-10-23 14:39:31 UTC
How FFS is the new AI a problem for STEALTH bombers?

Did the new AI took away your cloak or something? It's suddenly no longer possible to wait, invisible, until the target cleaned the field of NPC a bit and THEN jump him? Question

Operation WRITE DOWN ALL THE THINGS!!!  Check out the list at http://bit.ly/wdatt Collecting and compiling all fixes and ideas for EVE. Looking for more editors!
Capqu
Half Empty
xqtywiznalamywmodxfhhopawzpqyjdwrpeptuaenabjawdzku
#220 - 2012-10-23 14:53:48 UTC
Tobiaz wrote:
How FFS is the new AI a problem for STEALTH bombers?

Did the new AI took away your cloak or something? It's suddenly no longer possible to wait, invisible, until the target cleaned the field of NPC a bit and THEN jump him? Question


It is, but you will have a much lower success rate and engagement window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K5tVbVu9Mkg