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Crew ship

Author
RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#1 - 2012-10-02 19:22:57 UTC

hello,

I play Eve since years now and one of the first questions I did to my self during the first months playing this game was:
How can a ship like a Titan, carrier, Battleship or even a Batlecruiser can have just a pilot?
After years, I keep asking my self: Why after so many expansions, crew hasn't been added?
I have full respect of CCP and the game they did is just awesome ( i came from different MMORPG experience and this is the most
intresting one), so there must be more than one reason but I came to the point that after reading so many post in the Council of
stellar management about small improvements was time to post mine about crew.
Here I will put the concept, point by point, hoping to find more players who will support the idea.

- From the Fitting panel a link to the Crew panel. Similar to the fitting window, it might show a 2d interior ship with free spots in key roles: Propulsion, gunnery, shield, hull,
electronics, ecc..
In every spot you could put just one officer who might give you one special bouns:
Gunnery: tracking speed, damage, reload efficency ecc...
Propulsion: agility, speed ecc...
Armor: Hp, repair amout ecc...
Basically the same bonuses you receive with rigs.

Question would be: why add something which adds almost same bonuses of Rigs?
I think it will enhance the characteristics of the ships and the style of play of each player. In addition you might decide to balance
the bonuses of each ship.

- The crew would have a daily,weekly or monthly cost: You hire, you pay.
The crew can't be killed or dismissed, can only be sold (but while on the market you keep paying for it).

- The crew gets experience for every battle is envolved,
more experience, more bonuses, more costs, more values on the market.

- The first officers you buy from the market start with 0 experience, it is up to you to let them grow.

- The crew can be killed or wonded. During fights, after receiving a perfect hit, you might loose one of them.

I would have more ideas to share, but i want to keep the post simple, basically here you have my crew concept which I hopes
will at least put some ideas in the mind of some CCP programmers.

Thank you

RVNSM
Utsen Dari
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2012-10-02 23:40:18 UTC
I like your idea of giving a particular ship "experience" credit... so if you had some particularly lucky or effective ship that had many kills without dying, it would have some small bonuses over a factory-fresh hull of the same type. But only in your hands or something so you couldn't go kill fifty noobships and then sell the "improved" hull in Jita for a markup. Would be nice to give specific ships a history. EVE is nothing if not a vehicle for player-created history after all.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#3 - 2012-10-03 00:38:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

Ships DO have crews. It's just limited to RP fluff due to "balancing issues" (look how much trouble CCP is having with balancing the current system of ships, mods, and weapons).

Also... "no" to anything that introduces XP or any sort of "experience system."

edit: also... run a search. This isn't the first time this idea has been brought up over the years.
RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#4 - 2012-10-03 13:11:55 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines

Ships DO have crews. It's just limited to RP fluff due to "balancing issues" (look how much trouble CCP is having with balancing the current system of ships, mods, and weapons).

Also... "no" to anything that introduces XP or any sort of "experience system."

edit: also... run a search. This isn't the first time this idea has been brought up over the years.



The link u put is useless.... I am speaking about crew you can manage and chose. I know crew has been a past topic, but reading the post/proposal in the assebly hall makes me laugh. A lot of small improvements are requested, ship crew would allow to customize you play style.
In addition, i am not speaking about managing hundreds people, but just officers. Imagine to have only two spots available on a cruiser and a choice between a dozen officers. It would make your ships much more customizable.
Btw, it is just a point of view but I don't understand why u don't want nothing about XP. Eve players build their experience while playing eve, so why don't do the same with NPC crew officers?
Dirty Wizard
Doomheim
#5 - 2012-10-04 15:46:10 UTC
Me: Hello. I'm an aspiring mechanic and I'd like to serve aboard your Catalyst ship.
Captain: Welcome aboard.
Me: Thanks. Say, I noticed that the entire crew is new to space travel and the ship is new too.
Captain: Oh pay no heed to that. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Me: Ok I suppose. I also happened to notice that the ship is heavily fitted with damage mods to the exclusion of armor.
Captain: We won't be needing armor where we're going.
Me: And where is that, sir?
Captain: We're going to an ice belt to gan... er... protect those flimsy mining ships. Say, how is your life insurance policy? Total coverage I hope.

RIP Catalyst pilot #157,246,931

(signature removed due to stupid)

Arduemont
The State of War.
#6 - 2012-10-04 16:15:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
To a capsuleer, taking a Titan out, is like going for a walk. Capsuleers don't fly these ships like a traditional person would, they don't have controls or buttons to press. A capsuleer's brain is directly connected to the ship.

When a pod pilot fires his weapons he does it like you or I would clench a fist. When they start their MWD they do it the way you or I would go from walking to running. Human brain to massive machine motor control. A capsuleer knows when he's being fired at and from what direction in the same way we as human beings sense when a fly lands on us somewhere, they feel it.

Although pod pilots do have crews, they don't need them essentially. More or less, they are there for long term maintenance. They're probably more engineers than pilots. I'm pretty sure some pod pilots would have their ships manned by drones.

That link is talking about the average crews of ship, that aren't piloted by capsuleers.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#7 - 2012-10-04 18:12:09 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
To a capsuleer, taking a Titan out, is like going for a walk. Capsuleers don't fly these ships like a traditional person would, they don't have controls or buttons to press. A capsuleer's brain is directly connected to the ship.

When a pod pilot fires his weapons he does it like you or I would clench a fist. When they start their MWD they do it the way you or I would go from walking to running. Human brain to massive machine motor control. A capsuleer knows when he's being fired at and from what direction in the same way we as human beings sense when a fly lands on us somewhere, they feel it.

Although pod pilots do have crews, they don't need them essentially. More or less, they are there for long term maintenance. They're probably more engineers than pilots. I'm pretty sure some pod pilots would have their ships manned by drones.

That link is talking about the average crews of ship, that aren't piloted by capsuleers.




Hello! wake up! we are speaking about a GAME. Now, I understand spaceship are a concept too far away, a game in the future let you dream, but in terms of "realistic" way to play and fly a spaceship, has more sense to see a ship with a crew and not a brain connected to something.... I could reply with:
"if you are hit by a torpedo and one of your million links got disconnected you may be disconnected from the main server of your "flying ship supercomputer".... C'MON, have you ever seen star wars or Star Trek?
Even if we are speaking about something in the future, a crew makes more sense (and add definitely mor fun) than your fantasy about a supercomputer linked to your virtual capsule....
Dirty Wizard
Doomheim
#8 - 2012-10-04 18:18:37 UTC
RAVENSOME wrote:

Hello! wake up! we are speaking about a GAME. Now, I understand spaceship are a concept too far away, a game in the future let you dream, but in terms of "realistic" way to play and fly a spaceship, has more sense to see a ship with a crew and not a brain connected to something.... I could reply with:
"if you are hit by a torpedo and one of your million links got disconnected you may be disconnected from the main server of your "flying ship supercomputer".... C'MON, have you ever seen star wars or Star Trek?
Even if we are speaking about something in the future, a crew makes more sense (and add definitely mor fun) than your fantasy about a supercomputer linked to your virtual capsule....

Arguing about what's realistic and what's not in regards to a science fiction video game is a mute point.

Check and mate.

(signature removed due to stupid)

RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#9 - 2012-10-05 13:31:38 UTC
Dirty Wizard wrote:
RAVENSOME wrote:

Hello! wake up! we are speaking about a GAME. Now, I understand spaceship are a concept too far away, a game in the future let you dream, but in terms of "realistic" way to play and fly a spaceship, has more sense to see a ship with a crew and not a brain connected to something.... I could reply with:
"if you are hit by a torpedo and one of your million links got disconnected you may be disconnected from the main server of your "flying ship supercomputer".... C'MON, have you ever seen star wars or Star Trek?
Even if we are speaking about something in the future, a crew makes more sense (and add definitely mor fun) than your fantasy about a supercomputer linked to your virtual capsule....

Arguing about what's realistic and what's not in regards to a science fiction video game is a mute point.

Check and mate.



I am NOT arguing, It is not a matter of realistic or NON realistic, it is a matter of FUN.
What would be more Fun for you? Having a fantasy about capsule connected to a super computer? (I have never seen a capsule connected to anything honestly during my playing time in eve) OR a crew to customize your ship? Having a bit more feeling to fly something "alive"? and to have more choices about game style?

I really don't understand the utility of certains posts, we should discuss ideas for game improvement, not immaginations about something doesn't exist at all. I can immagine whatever I want about this game, but it is not the point, nor the right forum for that.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#10 - 2012-10-05 14:01:18 UTC
I don't really see a problem, or have ever seen a problem, i allowing for the following "Module":

Crew Compliment.

Comes in 5 sizes. Small, Medium, Large, Capital, Super Capital. Costs from 10k, to 100mill. Ships can't fly without one. Includes Scotty the engineer, and a bunch of Donuts.

But if we didn't made it mandatory...

Ships without a crew have no inherent bonuses.

*runs off*
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#11 - 2012-10-06 17:32:55 UTC
Morgan North wrote:
I don't really see a problem, or have ever seen a problem, i allowing for the following "Module":

Crew Compliment.

Comes in 5 sizes. Small, Medium, Large, Capital, Super Capital. Costs from 10k, to 100mill. Ships can't fly without one. Includes Scotty the engineer, and a bunch of Donuts.

But if we didn't made it mandatory...

Ships without a crew have no inherent bonuses.

*runs off*


What's the point though? If it's just a must have thing, with a set cost and no new gameplay mechanics, there is no point adding it. You might as well say, that crew costs are already included in the hull cost and leave it at that. No wasted dev time, no wasted gameplay potential, same end result.

I think whatever the chosen mechanic is any sort of XP grinds are bad and should be avoided like a plague. The problem with XP gains for crews is, that it just leads to XP grinding by any means necessary. Instead of playing the game normally and doing what they enjoy, people will endure almost anything to grind for XP. Even when they don't like it, they will do it and dislike the game for making them do it.

Getting around this problem is easy though. Don't allow crews to gain XP. Instead have different types of crews with different advantages. For example: Standard crew comes with the hull and provides the normal stats, but alternate crews can be used to alter existing stats in some way. Bonuses to some areas with negatives to others, so even the standard crew sees a lot of use. Just an example for something different without trying to crowbar in an XP grind mechanic to the game.
Morgan North
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#12 - 2012-10-07 20:15:38 UTC
There doesn't need to be a point for something like this. Its just a matter of "realism", especially if CCP does say "your ships have crews! GOD!" It also could create potential markets and trade routes if these items were only "produced" (read: Educated and prepared for space travelling) at certain planets/constelations.

else nobody really thinks a ship has crew because:

1. You mine asteroids.
2. You build it, possibly slowly from asteroids.
3. You enter it and exit station all in under a week.

There's never mention of anyone in there really.

But either way, its one of those things. The sole bonus i suggeted would be somethign that simply enable a ship's bonuses and doesnt' really complicate things.

Or more hilariously:

Maybe you could have 4 "crew races" which when applied to a ship gave it bonuses to each of their race's weapons. Ever wanted to fly a stabber with blasters? (ugh). Get a gallentean crew, I'm sue they know how to fit the things.
Arduemont
The State of War.
#13 - 2012-10-08 11:17:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
RAVENSOME wrote:
Hello! wake up! we are speaking about a GAME. Now, I understand spaceship are a concept too far away, a game in the future let you dream, but in terms of "realistic" way to play and fly a spaceship, has more sense to see a ship with a crew and not a brain connected to something.... I could reply with:
"if you are hit by a torpedo and one of your million links got disconnected you may be disconnected from the main server of your "flying ship supercomputer".... C'MON, have you ever seen star wars or Star Trek?
Even if we are speaking about something in the future, a crew makes more sense (and add definitely mor fun) than your fantasy about a supercomputer linked to your virtual capsule....


Its not my fantasty. It's CCPs, and they're not going to change the game lore because one bloke on the forums is having a hissy fit. According to CCP and their officially published fiction, non capsuleer crews are massively inefficient.

Taking this issue away from a lore perspective, adding crews means more things for CCP to balance. Balance is already a bloody nightmare that CCP are now putting a very large amount of time into, so its unlikely they will find this idea even vaguely appealing. If you think dragging the icon of a person into a new fitting slot will be "fun" and then spending extra time in EFT trying to work out what the new optimum fit for all your ships will be, then your too easily please.

Not to mention the fact you will be adding another level of complexity to a game that CCP is already putting effort into making more accessible to newer players. I could rant forever about why this is a bad idea, but I'll stop there.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#14 - 2012-10-09 15:27:37 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
RAVENSOME wrote:
Hello! wake up! we are speaking about a GAME. Now, I understand spaceship are a concept too far away, a game in the future let you dream, but in terms of "realistic" way to play and fly a spaceship, has more sense to see a ship with a crew and not a brain connected to something.... I could reply with:
"if you are hit by a torpedo and one of your million links got disconnected you may be disconnected from the main server of your "flying ship supercomputer".... C'MON, have you ever seen star wars or Star Trek?
Even if we are speaking about something in the future, a crew makes more sense (and add definitely mor fun) than your fantasy about a supercomputer linked to your virtual capsule....


Its not my fantasty. It's CCPs, and they're not going to change the game lore because one bloke on the forums is having a hissy fit. According to CCP and their officially published fiction, non capsuleer crews are massively inefficient.

Taking this issue away from a lore perspective, adding crews means more things for CCP to balance. Balance is already a bloody nightmare that CCP are now putting a very large amount of time into, so its unlikely they will find this idea even vaguely appealing. If you think dragging the icon of a person into a new fitting slot will be "fun" and then spending extra time in EFT trying to work out what the new optimum fit for all your ships will be, then your too easily please.

Not to mention the fact you will be adding another level of complexity to a game that CCP is already putting effort into making more accessible to newer players. I could rant forever about why this is a bad idea, but I'll stop there.


Ok. I understand CCP needs to make things more simple as they need to add players to EVE and make more money, as I understand Crew is a concept which would need to be balanced properly BUT I don't work for CCP (so I am not asking myself how can I balance it properly?) and I don't play Eve because is simple (Actually I would play it more if it was more complex).
I addition, I didn't discovered crews by my self, It has been hugely discussed already, I decided to make a new post as I did't find any post about that in the new forums.
By the way, try to follow this point: Eve is a complex game.... In the beginning. Once you understand how it works, isn't that hard to play and this is the reason why OLD players (not new) ask for big improvements. I understand that CCP need to make the game accessible to everyone but look at that under a "marketing eye": who do you care the most? Players who paid for years the subscription? Or players who try the game for a month or few and than they quit?
I think both need to be listened, and for example, as someone suggested already, you may have crew in Biggers ships (from BC for example) so you will avoid the crew management to anyone who is new to the game.
I mean, we are discussing just the concept of crew, I put an Idea but I am sure it can be improved, hoping to have something extra to deal during my game play.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#15 - 2012-10-10 00:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
RAVENSOME wrote:
I addition, I didn't discovered crews by my self, It has been hugely discussed already, I decided to make a new post as I did't find any post about that in the new forums.

Your forum-fu is weak. I found these 2 threads right away.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=94953
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1997227

RAVENSOME wrote:
By the way, try to follow this point: Eve is a complex game.... In the beginning. Once you understand how it works, isn't that hard to play and this is the reason why OLD players (not new) ask for big improvements.

There is BIG difference between adding "depth" and adding needless complexity. The idea for ship crews is the latter as fitting a ship already involves...
- knowing what skills you have
- knowing what tactics you will use
- knowing the inherrent strengths and weaknesses of the ships you have and selecting the right one
- knowing how to balance tank, DPS, utility/point-defense, and speed for optimal effectiveness
- guesstimating what enemies you might or might not face (PvP only)
- how well it will work solo and/or in conjunction with other people

As far as "improvements" are concerned... old timers are clamoring for existing stuff to be revamped and rebalanced so they are all more or less "viable" (especially so for ships/mods/weapons that few use) and there is little "skill up to use this and you've achieved the pinnacle of that class" type talk.

At the same time... CCP is also "streamlining" skill trees to make it easier for newbies to "specialize" and be more "useful."

Adding a new layer of "mods" would NOT help as all it would do is force older players to get more things to "enhance" their performance and make ships generally more expensive for newbies.

RAVENSOME wrote:
I mean, we are discussing just the concept of crew, I put an Idea but I am sure it can be improved, hoping to have something extra to deal during my game play.

Or you could use your imagination (god forbid) and find other activities that actually challenge you as a player. I recommend that you try PvPing (the non-0.0 type).
RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#16 - 2012-10-10 14:52:26 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
There is BIG difference between adding "depth" and adding needless complexity. The idea for ship crews is the latter as fitting a ship already involves...
- knowing what skills you have
- knowing what tactics you will use
- knowing the inherrent strengths and weaknesses of the ships you have and selecting the right one
- knowing how to balance tank, DPS, utility/point-defense, and speed for optimal effectiveness
- guesstimating what enemies you might or might not face (PvP only)
- how well it will work solo and/or in conjunction with other people


Oh! Really? I didn't know that! now that I have this "what to follow" list I am sure I will win the game!!

ShahFluffers wrote:
As far as "improvements" are concerned... old timers are clamoring for existing stuff to be revamped and rebalanced so they are all more or less "viable" (especially so for ships/mods/weapons that few use) and there is little "skill up to use this and you've achieved the pinnacle of that class" type talk.


Revamp and Rebalance it is something will always happen, especiallly in a game like EVE where you have two major expansion every year. CCP IS iproving and adding new stuff to the game, I am wondering if one day the will add crew to and personally I think they will do that.
So, even without crew, you still need to revamp and rebalance old contents

ShahFluffers wrote:
At the same time... CCP is also "streamlining" skill trees to make it easier for newbies to "specialize" and be more "useful."

Maybe they try, but adding more skills will always put new pilots in the back.

ShahFluffers wrote:
Adding a new layer of "mods" would NOT help as all it would do is force older players to get more things to "enhance" their performance and make ships generally more expensive for newbies.


Read all the posts and you will find out that this "issue" has been already discussed. there are several ways to not "bother"
newbies with crew and/or other stuff. CREW would be not mandatory (like RIGS)

ShahFluffers wrote:
Or you could use your imagination (god forbid) and find other activities that actually challenge you as a player. I recommend that you try PvPing (the non-0.0 type).


This advice is totally useless, but thank you for it. I REALLY appreciate it.


The reason of the post is not: "I want a crew cause I would like it", The post is about something which could be added in the future in one of following expansion. CREW would add surely something nice to the game. Think about having a fight with the chance to loose one of your officers and his bonuses. It is something which can't happen with Rigs or Modules (unless u overload them ofc). Crew would add the "lucky" variable factor which is actually missed.
A game is a game ofc but adding any realism isn't bad and Ships have crew. In a fight crew has a big role, would be nice to add something like that in any big eve fight. the concept isn't really usefull for pve fights, but mostly for pvp fleet combats.
If you can't understand that ok, but please keep your intresting post somewhere else.
IN ANY PROPOSAL FORUM would be nice to see suggestions to improve the idea and not useless post.
I
Phox Jorkarzul
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
#17 - 2012-10-15 16:00:10 UTC
I like the idea of a crew, but it has to be done right. I like that idea that it is like a rig and the ship does jot need it to fly. That said I troll the forums three to five hours a weekend a lot of what I see is.fellow pilots saying CCP needs to fix some.aspects of the game. I feel that this would instantly be a mechanic thäţ would broken. CCP would have to a lot and a lot of work to make it work.

That said CCP could turn the crew into a a much needed isk sink in the game, and it terms of XP for the crew why not have the crew use your training queue. In order to train a crew then the pilot Has to load a skillbook into the slot. That xp doesn't go to the pilot but that crew member... Now the pilot has a choice "do I train myself or my crew" for younger pilots îm sorry but for.older pilots I hear a lot from my Corp and Alliance that they don't know what to.train. This could give pilots something to improve ships they love to and not feel like they are wasting time...and won could also "sell" the crew like toons. That more training a crew has the more iskies

Sorry about grammar and spelling typed this on my phone

Blasters for life

https://neverpheedthetroll.blogspot.com

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Infinite Pew
#18 - 2012-10-15 17:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
RAVENSOME wrote:
... this "issue" has been already discussed. there are several ways to not "bother"
newbies with crew and/or other stuff. CREW would be not mandatory (like RIGS)

Bear in mind that anytime something gives a tangible enough advantage without disproportionate costs it will stop being optional.

This is what happened with rigs. Back in the day they used to be a "one size fits all" type thing that costed you an arm and a leg... making them very much an "optional" thing for ships cruiser sized and below. Now, with various rig sizes and overall lower costs, unless you are a newbie or flying a "throwaway" T1-fit there is absolutely NO excuse NOT to fit rigs and gain that extra "edge."

RAVENSOME wrote:
The reason of the post is not: "I want a crew cause I would like it", The post is about something which could be added in the future in one of following expansion. CREW would add surely something nice to the game.

You just contradicted yourself here. "I don't want this because it would 'just be nice,' I want this because it'd be nice."

RAVENSOME wrote:
Think about having a fight with the chance to loose one of your officers and his bonuses.

I would do everything in my power to make sure it is a quick fight with minimal chance of losing my bonuses (i.e. I would do nothing but gank).

RAVENSOME wrote:
Crew would add the "lucky" variable factor which is actually missed.

Actually no... we already have a "lucky variable." It's called ECM and it is quite possibly THE most loathed mechanic in the game.

RAVENSOME wrote:
If you can't understand that ok, but please keep your intresting post somewhere else.
IN ANY PROPOSAL FORUM would be nice to see suggestions to improve the idea and not useless post.

Yeah... no. Welcome back to reality.
Just because someone proposes an idea, it doesn't mean it is automatically "good" idea.

And posts that disagree with an idea or proposal are usually the most helpful because they point out the flaws in the idea. It's your job, as the proposer, to work around those flaws and see if you can't come up with solutions for them.
RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#19 - 2012-10-15 18:17:43 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:

Just because someone proposes an idea, it doesn't mean it is automatically "good" idea.


ShahFluffers wrote:

And posts that disagree with an idea or proposal are usually the most helpful because they point out the flaws in the idea. It's your job, as the proposer, to work around those flaws and see if you can't come up with solutions for them.


uhmmm...... yes....... your brain is full of s*h*i*t*.

Yor arguments about Rigs are totally broken but I am not going to lose any more time with your stupidity.

I hope to see more posts about how the idea of crew (or ANY) other Idea can be improved in order to make the game funnier without trying to convince people with stupid arguments that You are right and others are wrong.

RAVENSOME
RAVEN Space Co
#20 - 2012-10-15 18:55:06 UTC
Phox Jorkarzul wrote:
I like the idea of a crew, but it has to be done right. I like that idea that it is like a rig and the ship does jot need it to fly. That said I troll the forums three to five hours a weekend a lot of what I see is.fellow pilots saying CCP needs to fix some.aspects of the game. I feel that this would instantly be a mechanic thäţ would broken. CCP would have to a lot and a lot of work to make it work.


well, any improvements of the game has been rebalanced, think about PI and Rigs (in the beginning they had just one size).

Phox Jorkarzul wrote:

That said CCP could turn the crew into a a much needed isk sink in the game, and it terms of XP for the crew why not have the crew use your training queue. In order to train a crew then the pilot Has to load a skillbook into the slot. That xp doesn't go to the pilot but that crew member... Now the pilot has a choice "do I train myself or my crew" for younger pilots îm sorry but for.older pilots I hear a lot from my Corp and Alliance that they don't know what to.train. This could give pilots something to improve ships they love to and not feel like they are wasting time...and won could also "sell" the crew like toons. That more training a crew has the more iskies


that's an idea..... more skill queues... sounds challenging

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