Player Features and Ideas Discussion

If I were a cynical person I'd think the chosen solution to fixing armour tanking is to give armour tanking ships enough mids to shield tank. Too many mids on armour tanking ships and not enough on the only shield tanker in the group.

I also remaine unconvinced of the logic behind subtracting a slot for drone boats.

Having drones as a main DPS source is more of a drawback than an advantage.

Pros:

-once set they keep firing even when the mothership is jammed
-if the appropriate drone size is used, tracking is not an issue


Cons:

-Drone bays are very limited
-Drones can be destroyed by enemy pilots
-Drones are RAPIDLY destroyed by gateguns
-Drone DPS, even with the new damage modules remains relatively low

In my opinion there is no need to remove a slot from drone boats.

To be honest the Maller still looks bad. I don't think you have fully acknowledged just how much this ship needed help. Did you post wrong stats by chance? It has no drone bay, no utility high and only 3 mids. It needs a cap injector but needs a web even more.

Here is the fit I've used as reference:

[Maller, new]
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Damage Control II
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Adaptive Nano Plating II

10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Faint Warp Disruptor I

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

DPS:
426 with conflag
382 with navy MF
305 with Scorch

Hitpoints: roughly 31.7k hp (new armor and shield values simulated by adding a 100mm Reinforced Titanium plate and lowing Shield Management skill to level 2)

1297.5 / 1375 (1250 PG without the Ancillary Current Router. A 5% PG implant works as well)
348.25 / 350 CPU (the former tier 3 cruiser with the biggest CPU issues is the only one that doesn't get more CPU?)

Speed: 1451 m/s


PS:

The Moa doesn't exactly look good either with its less than optimal slot layout. Seems that in this iteration the Vexor and Rupture will remain top dogs.

it does seem that minmatar always come away with the most when things get rebalanced i think the ruppy was largely fine as it was it only needed a slight buff to speed an extra turret slightly more armour HP and reduce their dronebay by about half i would say maybe nerf PG a little.

Here are my thoughts.

Maller looks ok, its still gonna lack DPS, it'll be a good brick but not a good ship. With the PG buff you can go 5 focused mediums and 1600 and have like 50K EHP (from memory) but even with 2-3 heat sinks and the new bonus It'll struggle to hit 350DPS (again from memory). Right now it gets 264 with 5 focused pulses so with 25 percent damage bonus it'll indeed be at 330, which is pathetic in a world with 500DPS thorax/vexor/moa/ruptures/probably most of the attack cruisers now.

My advice is giving it some drones, you've shown you chose amarr for the secondary drone race, the abaddon can field 5meds, give this 5 lights and it'll reach those much needed dps numbers, (it'll still be lower than most but acceptable: 430ish with hobs).



Moa looks like you ****** up. I was hoping to god for another mid but god forgive caldari can fit tackle and a tank right. But you ****** up twice, you gave it a damage bonus instead of range, before with the range bonus I could afford to not have a web because with null I'd reach 7-8kms and couldnt be kited in web range.

Meaning that before I could have a tank and forget the web but the null+range bonus made it so that I couldnt be kited in scram range by web+point ships (also now with every other cruiser being able to fit double web anyway I might as well get ****** anyway).

Now you removed the range bonus but didnt give it a web. Meaning you are telling me I either need to go TANK/TANK/MWD/SCRAM and have no range control what-so-ever or TANK/SCRAM/WEB/MWD and have **** all tank, probably one ASB or one LSE which is laughable especially with the ASB nerf.

I'd argue this Moa is worse than the current one, regardless of how backwards that sounds when you changed out a range bonus for a damage one.

My advice is either keep the damage bonus, drop a low and give it a mid or keep the range bonus and give it more PG/CPU for bigger guns.



The vexor just looks ******* awesome, ridiculously so actually, actually its overpowered. It was one of the highest DPS/EHP ships before and the extra low is gonna be a damage mod. Lows will be DC/1600/EANM/EANM/drone dmg mod and it'll probably push 600DPS and 40K EHP.

I dont see why people seem to be saying that ogres dont hit cruisers, they do. Ogres will hit a webbed and scrammed cruiser no problem and 2/2/1 with a drone damage mod and blasters is just gonna be ridiculous while sporting a 1600 plate tank, people usualy have to sacrifice tank to gank their ships.

And the extra mid will just contribute to the lolness of this ship, it'll probably be a second web to 8km kite blaster/AC ships while 2/2/1 ***** on them.

My advice? It doesnt need the extra low or the extra mid, chose one I guess, I'm not sure but the vexor is pretty solid now, no need to give it 2 more slots when you are giving thhe Moa 0.


Rupture looks the same but stronger; it'll have an extra mid for better shield tanking or an utility mid when its armor tanked. Double webs is a stronk possibility so be wary of ruptures 8km kiting everything as well with double webs+ac projection. The second high utility was almost always a small neut anyway so people will just fit a single med neut and have abit of extra cpu/pg to spend elsewhere which is not a problem.

I still dont understand why its so fast or how it has such a drone bay but oh well.

About the rupture :

-1 med
keep the drone bay
+1 highslot (eh ?)
+1 missile slot

DAT MINI PHOON OF DOOM \O/

I'm liking these changes, I assumed the Moa would get the Merlin treatment and that's a good path, but seriously, it needs to drop that utility high for another mid, hell even a low for a mid, as it stands the only tank you can usually fit to a Moa is a single LSE as you need that extra slot for a web with blasters.

Vexor is looking solid, still a good gankboat, and 4 mids kind of make up the lack of neut and an extra low is huge, it can probably push 800+ with the changes to drone damage mods as well.

Maller is also looking solid, it'll probably still be a brick and lousy for solo because of no drones, but at least with some decent dps it might be able to win a straight up ehp/dps fight with a crapload of EHP, and we have the new Omen for straight up dps.

The Rupture...wow, already the most used T1 cruiser, and gaining a second mid and the beefy speed boost is HUGE for the Rupture as it was almost always flown as a nanogank boat, still retains its dps and a medium neut, with the extra cpu to fill that utility mid and a full flight of drones I think it gets a little too much utility, keep the slot layout the same in my opinion.

the 6th high makes the moa a great ship for nigh unprobable gassing in Wspace with a probe launcher or cloak.

Seconding Moa highslot to mid slot, it needs that extra ability to be competitive.

Also, seconding drones on the Maller, its dps is quite anemic and its solo capabilities are completely crushed by lack of drones.

Just noticed from someone mentioning above that the speed on the Rupture is faster than all the so called 'fast' Attack cruiser except the Stabber (go figure) which is quite ridiculous, the Rupture is going to remove the need of flying the other races Attack cruisers because why should you when the Rupture moves faster then all of them, more EHP, more dps, 4lights + 1 Med, a medium neut, capless weapons and space for an utility mid?

Why're you taking utility high slots off of the Maller?

Seems like having a slot open for NOS is very Amarr.

Otherwise, I think the Maller looks a lot sharper. Anyone that thinks that these won't do damage is clueless.




I guess I'm confused now. So the Moa is now a blaster boat? Obviously it can go both ways, but it's going to lean to Blasters here. I was thinking that one way you can balance cruisers out is to increase fitting space so they can put the heaviest guns on a class, while restricting hardpoints, etc. I know it gets tricky on that margin, (balancing defense vs offense) but, with most ships putting the heaviest class of gun on a ship is going to cripple the rest of the ship or require fitting mods - so maybe these cruisers get an advantage with that? (given limited hardpoints as balance?)




Vexor's became pretty disgusting now with neut and drone setups and can put solid armor plating (or dual ASBs), etc. I'm not sure I'm liking this atm overall.

Also, the dual damage bonus seems to break the line with the other setups? Should it get a defensive notch instead of a damage bonus? Just wondering.




Yup, that's minmatar. Why have you stripped the utility slot? To stop dual neuting setups?