Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Major Kilz you need to take your medicine, call your mother and stop posting on the adult forums.

This is something I think most of the Caldari are going to be dead crowd is missing. I personally feel the caracal is going to be great for rapid lights or hams, and a great boat all around after the patch. I also don't think that HML's will be all that bad for projecting damage either. Range is still going to be pretty good on the velocity bonused hulls.

I do feel the Moa needs the 5th mid. It just would make the fitting of the ship a tad easier.

On the subject of the Rupture's damage, not sure where anyone is getting 460 dps out of the rupture at 18km. That is in falloff, which is more like 230 dps because of your miss rate. 460 would be at optimal.

If anyone remembers the introduction of missile skills, all Caldari bears were calling it the end of the world then too - of course it later turned out to be a massive boost...

Yeah the Condor turned out to be awesome because double TDs ruin any gunboat, they need to tone down TDs....

BRAH! U R so TERRIBUBBLE. So, after getting back home I launched EFT.

What a suprise! D Moa can get 50k rounded (52k ehp Overheated) ehp now with D current stats. Obv that's with all mids fitting 2 lse, invul, MWD, 3 extender rigs and a DC.

Maybe you're not aware that CCP's propose stat change is BEFORE SKILLS ARE EVEN APPLIED or maybe you didn't factor it into your calculations (although you've said you did brah). MAYBE YOU DONT UNDERSTAND HOW A BASE INCREASE CAN CHANGE THE OVERALL HITPOINT INCREASE WHEN RIGS ARE APPLIED ETC and Im ignoring applied skills. So 15%. O yes! U r indeed TAR TAR.

You might be correct. But I don't think so. You are no doubt aware that the Caracal -- post winter update -- will be doing less dps than it does today, and thanks to the nerfs it will be harder to apply it. It will finally have the power to fit HAMs but applying damage to anything smaller than a BC or BS is going to be a challenge with them. The HML Caracal will remain a niche ship at best -- people aren't flying these today, there is no reason to believe that they will suddenly start flying them after they are nerfed.

The AML Caracal, post winter nerf, is going to be pushing T1 Frigate DPS out of a Cruiser hull, and against any Frig with an AB fitted it will suffer the same damage application issues it faces today. To put this into perspective, a RAIL Enyo will do more DPS at its 20km optimal than a Caracal -- and it will actually apply that dps. Further, the Caracal has no neuts and only two drones.

Some folks are talking this ship up like it's all that and a bag of chips. They're full of it. If you want to fly the uber-Caracal fly it NOW, before CCP nerfs it. But they aren't doing that. And for good reason -- it turns out that there is little call for a slow Cruiser that does frigate DPS, no neuts, no drones, and no tank worth mentioning, even if it can push that dps out to fantastic range. It's a frigate tickler.

Hillariously enough, the new Minmatar Destroyer will be a better missile boat than the Caldari missile Cruiser. So will the Minmatar EWAR ship -- it will be far and away better.



Correct. However, the Rupture is a mean ship even now. It's fast, it does solid dps, it packs a neut and a full flight of drones. It is, in every way, a superlative ship. If the other improved Cruisers were balanced against it no one would be complaining. But sadly they are not. Where the Rupture does 450dps at point blank range and 250dps at 20km, the Moa does 500 dps at point blank range, 250 dps at 4km. Switching ammo allows it to hit out to 20km, and it will do about 200 dps at trhat range -- not too bad in other words.

Sounds relatively balanced so far. However, the Rupture will be significantly faster and more agile -- there is simply no way for a Moa that doesn't land at zero to close range and apply it's extra dps. Further, that Moa will need to fit both a scram and a web, giving up the luxury of a long-point, in order to control range. This is something the Rupture pilot need not concern himself with. The Rupture will pack a full flight of drones plus one in reserve while the Moa will have only half that. The Rupture will be able to fit a medium neut, while on the Moa this is questionable. The Rupture's weapons do not use cap while the Moa's do. And as far as tank, in practical terms the Moa and Rupture will both likely be very close as the Moa must utilize one of its midslots for a web -- something that a nano-Rupture can easily dispense with.

So balanced? Hardly.

The Moa needs a fifth midslot, it needs a full flight of drones, and it needs it's base speed increased and it's mass lowered. Maybe then people will fly them. They aren't now, they aren't wasting their time with any Caldari cruisers -- and unless CCP decides that balance should apply to every race including Caldari these cruisers will continue on as hangar decoration.

Again though, I don't know why I am bothering with this. CCP clearly isn't interested in balance. If they were they wouldn't be proposing this nonsense it the first place. I wouldn't be able to go down the list of ship attributes, from tank to mass to velocity to drones, and find that in virtually every single category the Caldari ship ranks dead last. That's CCPs idea of balance.

The userbase opinion is pretty much unanimous that the Moa needs a minimum of 5 mid slots, making the shield tank bonused cruiser have the same mids as the Vexor which is as an armor tank and the Rupture that can currently already do shield better than the Moa is just fail. It's just sad that all the Moa can afford to take advantage of its bonused tank is a single LSE =/

@OT Smithers
With buffs to AML damage and rof bonus instead of kinetic damage bonus you can get around 220dps @ 60km with better damage application than before and 27k EHP, 220 dps is pretty high in the frigate world and no frigate/destroyer hull will be able to take you down because of EHP/Range although a large number of them will probably just disengage. Sure it isn't the best anti-frigate but it's decent.

Also don't forget new HAM Caracal is pretty badass with 400 dps @ 25km with 2km/s speed and 24k EHP, also because of GMP changes, with a single rigor (trade for 3k EHP), you can have 79m3 exp radius with your HAMs which should still be deadly to frigates.

About the Minmatar destroyer and new destroyers in general I don't know what to make of them with 2 of them breaking classic tier 1 bonus rules (Cap Warfare bonus on Amarr and MWD sig bonus on Minmatar which are usually t2 exclusive bonuses), I really feel like the Minmatar destroyer will be extremely good at kiting with Light Missiles and MWD, while the Caldari destroyer will have better damage application I doubt it will be as good as a MWD sig bonus on a ship that uses weapon systems that ignore tracking as you can pretty much perma mwd everywhere. Amarr destroyer sounds like its the ultimate in frigate heavy tackle, it's basically king of scram range as it will probably alpha any frigates cap with its 12km neuts, its still susceptible to kiting TD frigs but bonused drones and possible missiles will be pretty rough to handle if you don't have tank.

Don't rigor's only apply to guided missiles? Are they changing that? Otherwise it will be flare catalysts.

Short Range Missiles
Change the Guided Missile Precision skill, as well as all associated implants and rigs to affect all subcap missiles
Reduce HAM launcher PG requirements by 10%
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155029&find=unread

So yeah, what this implies is that HAMs go from 125 explosion radius to 93 explosion radius with all V skills, and as mentioned, down to 79 with a single rigor or 63.4 with 3 rigors which is almost frigate sized exp radius, although only a 122m/s explosion velocity means you won't be dealing 400 dps to frigs anytime soon but it's probably enough to cause them serious problems.

@Aglais
Don't waste your time with Major Killz, in his world the Rupture is way too slow and doesn't stand a chance against other cruisers and the Moa is a solo pwnmobile. If we listened to Major Killz we'd have Ruptures going as fast as frigates with Maller EHP and Thorax dps

I honestly hadn't seen that, I had only seen the thing about GMP. I guess I got so excited about GMP affecting them, that I didn't read the full post properly.



There is no precision ammo for HAMs. There is Javelin, and Rage. Rage will have a bloated explosion radius, which will probably only put it on par with T1 ammo when shooting anything cruiser sized and down. And Javelin... well it'll actually be worth using, post patch.

And if medium rails weren't pieces of crap compared to every other medium sized long range weapon (except maybe beams, those aren't great either), then the might be more popular.

And on the note of the Moa:
All level V:
[Moa, Blaster Brawler]
Damage Control II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Magnetic Field Stabilizer II

Large Shield Extender II
Stasis Webifier II
Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive I
Warp Scrambler II

Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Heavy Ion Blaster II, Void M
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I
Medium Core Defense Field Extender I

Multiplying the DPS by 1.25 (effectively what the change to the bonus does) gets 550... out to 2.5+2.5 (ish, at present it still has its range bonus, so I have to factor that in, and I'm too lazy to pull up a 'Rax or something and check)
493 with CNAM, 392 with null. I'll let someone else puzzle out the ranges.
Edit: bugger it. 493 DPS at 1.9+5km range with CNAM
550 DPS at 2.8+2.5km range with Void
393 DPS at 5.3+7km range with Null
I don't like the ranges myself, so I'd have to drop a MFS for a TE, and maybe put on a range rig.


It gets 26k omni EHP, lowest resist is EM at 34.4.

I can't comment on anything else until post patch. The HP post patch will probably go up a bit when it gets the hike to base shield, and the speed will get higher. And it'll be easier to fit.

I don't know what I think of the thing, it might need the mid, it might not. I'd personally say let the patch hit live, and see how things turn out.