EVE General Discussion

Yes but difference between ganking freighters and ganking miners was that You have to pick your target (in freighter case). You have to scan them and gank only fools with multi billion cargo.

But in miners case..... you could choose random miner and gank him.... he was profitable in every scenario.

So whad does this new patch brings? Just balance. Ganking miners are still profitable. You just have to search and scan for good one (miners wit Aoede MLU for example).

The tutorial has vastly improved from the time I started and it already does tell you to tank your stuff. Short of putting big flashing warning lights around a box saying "YOU WILL DIE, TANK EVERYTHING BAD PEOPLE WILL HURT YOU" and perhaps an option of joining EVE Uni there not much more CCP can do.

I managed to pick up on fitting a tank to my mining ship early on and my tutorial was just "heres 5000 isk, this is how to move about and use the market now get out and die". Hell aurora laughed at me when I died

So you Goons don't like cheap Catalysts and cheap jump/POS fuel...

A bit weird when we all know you guys own most POSes in nullsec and have biggest capital/super fleets.

You guys also own most of the Tech moons. Force barge/exhumer prices up and you get your profits.

Ganking doesn't need a buff (may change depending on what goes through with the crimewatch bit).


However, the Mack could use a small hp nerf. Needs to be right near the Hulk. That way the Skiff would be the only one that would be very unprofitable to gank (as it is the Mack has enough tank to survive any profit based gank, unless it is stupid fit).

Maybe a small hold nerf for the Skiff, would have to test it a bit first with that in mind.

Interestingly, in the original devblog ytterbium didn't say anything about suicide ganking, and which barges/exhumers were intended to be unprofitable to gank and which weren't. In the summary posted by CCP Tallest that the line you quoted was derived from,he added in that line, as a small part of a description, and you have jumped on it like a dog who hadn't seen meat in a month. Is that refinement additional information, or an unintended corruption of the message, or is it perhaps just an obvious truism that the skiff is indeed tougher against ganks than the mack, but that you are taking that one line out of context and giving it undue emphasis? I don't want to argue against this too long, as the larger argument you make that generally there's no need for more tank than that necessary to avoid a gank, and the mack has that much tank currently, so the skiff is pointless, is quite valid. That's true, the skiff is currently useless, I would never claim otherwise. To more specifically say that CCP intended the skiff to be the 'only unprofitable mining ship to gank', I think that is not justified. There are tons of useless ships in the game currently, for so many different reasons--I mean, historically over 50% of the ship types probably qualify, by a common sense standard. For most of these useless ships, people don't construct a conspiracy to explain why the ship is useless, they just don't use the ship and move on. So, moving on, accepting that the skiff is currently useless, and not favoring any pet theory as to WHY is it useless, let's consider how to make it useful.

The uselessness of the skiff could be negated by upping the challenge of NPCs in lowsec/nullsec mining, for example, or with any of an infinite spectrum of other possible changes (ring mining). We could make it warp-stabbed by default as well as more tanky. (As I said earlier, there's not too much point in making the skiff better at dangerous situations without first making these dangerous situations pay off in additional ISK, though) You are focused on only one change that could make the extra tank of the skiff more valuable, to the exclusion of all other changes, and if this quote from a CCP dev is your own justification for that, than you are reading too much into it.

I mean, if we're going to quote one line from a long discussion, and then derive our entire argument from that one line, then I'll just quote "CCP Soundwave wrote:
Suicide ganking wasn't designed to be profitable, it's meant to be an option that let's you punish someone else at your expense."

Look, I win. I found a CCP dev saying one line that, taken as gospel, completely disproves your entire argument. Or perhaps, instead of taking lines out of context, we could take as more foundational the stats of the ships as they exist in the game. The mack is unprofitable to gank. The skiff is so tanky as to have no real current purpose. Does this signifiy that ring mining is where the skiff will shine? Does this signify that whichever dev balanced the EHP of the mining barges missed a digit? I don't know, and it's going to take more than twisting one offhand dev comment that doesn't seem to really say what you think it does, to convince me that you do, sorry.

yeah because fuel prices are relevant in the price of tech

hint: they're not

Whichever lunkheaded dev offhandedly said "ganking isn't supposed to be profitable" needs to be kept away their keyboard. And oh man did this honeypot thread work.

You need POSes to get Tech, right?

OMG, Goons don't even know how to run a business properly...

if the price of tech was based solely on the cost of running a tower then it'd cost 5000 isk/unit

well, it doesn't