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Buff Ganking--Nevermind, Nerfed Again

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Pipa Porto
#901 - 2012-10-08 10:59:58 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
I also hear rumors that anyone is free to shoot at people who illegally fire upon innocent ships.

This is dishonoulable. >:(

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why don't miners bring friends? They keep telling us to bring friends to gank them, afterall.

If they brought friends, then the main mining ship of choice wouldn't be the mackinaw (or its t1 equivalent). Draw from that what inference you like.


To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
TharOkha
0asis Group
#902 - 2012-10-08 11:20:20 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
The changes mean that it is not possible to profitably gank macks so it is impossible to adapt .

Have you ever heard about mining ships with expensive modules? You know, like l4 Mission boats with expensive stuff.

Mallak:
Quote:
They don't care about the effort that goes in to settng up a gank & bury their heads in the sand when it's explained.


Speaking of an effort.... I heard that ganking miners in T1 destroyers was very very very difficult in skills, isk, effort.... oh wait...

Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.

All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules..... speaking of an effort Roll

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Pipa Porto
#903 - 2012-10-08 11:30:47 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.


First, in no way did they have "a few hundred" base HP. Even raw HP. Stop Lying.

You're whining that your Tech 2 Ship is not as sturdy as a Tech 1 ship that costs similar amounts? Waahaha, My Marauder doesn't have half the base HP of a Carrier.

They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers and could tank better than most HAC's standard fittings. If HAC pilots sat around AFK in space with no tank, and a full rack of guns, they'd get ganked too.

Got any killmails of properly tanked pre-Buff Hulks you can show that would imply they actually needed a buff?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#904 - 2012-10-08 11:42:45 UTC
TharOkha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The changes mean that it is not possible to profitably gank macks so it is impossible to adapt .

Have you ever heard about mining ships with expensive modules? You know, like l4 Mission boats with expensive stuff.

What sort of idiot would stick office/faction/deadspace mods on a mining barge which never moves outside of hisec in its life?

TharOkha wrote:
Speaking of an effort.... I heard that ganking miners in T1 destroyers was very very very difficult in skills, isk, effort.... oh wait...

It's quite clear that you've never dealt with the consequences of ganking. vOv

TharOkha wrote:
Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.

1) The HP was significantly higher than "a few hundred HP"
2) Cost of the ship itself is irrelevant.

TharOkha wrote:
All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules..... speaking of an effort Roll

And all you have to do is fit a tank. Now that's serious effort, right there. Roll

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#905 - 2012-10-08 11:44:26 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
Is it so hard to understand that it was not just about "you should tank it"? Exhumers had few hundreds base HP and costs as battleship. They were shot down just for lol near the stations, near the gates etc... Hell, even t1 barges were shot down just for lol, because gank was extremely cheap. I didnt heard about Battleships or Cruisers that have few hundred HP by default.


First, in no way did they have "a few hundred" base HP. Even raw HP. Stop Lying.

You're whining that your Tech 2 Ship is not as sturdy as a Tech 1 ship that costs similar amounts? Waahaha, My Marauder doesn't have half the base HP of a Carrier.

They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers and could tank better than most HAC's standard fittings. If HAC pilots sat around AFK in space with no tank, and a full rack of guns, they'd get ganked too.

Got any killmails of properly tanked pre-Buff Hulks you can show that would imply they actually needed a buff?


Got the numbers handy to show that the hulk recieved a buff & that the Mack recieved a significant buff? Or are you crying over the Skiff?
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#906 - 2012-10-08 11:53:54 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
TharOkha wrote:
All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules..... speaking of an effort Roll

And all you have to do is fit a tank. Now that's serious effort, right there. Roll

Get CCP to just bake one into your hull, now that takes some real effort

to whine until they give in.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
TharOkha
0asis Group
#907 - 2012-10-08 12:19:34 UTC  |  Edited by: TharOkha
Pipa Porto wrote:

Waahaha, My Marauder doesn't have half the base HP of a Carrier.

But Im also pretty sure that your marauder wont die by 2-3 shots from catalyst (speaking of base HP).

"They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers"
They had also much more PG to use (thousand and more vs 40-50) = the ability to fit large tank extenders. While you can fit T2 cruiser to be good at tank and at the same time good dps, you could fit your hulk only for good tank or gtfo. Can you tell me then what options miners have in fitting if their only option was to fit the tank? What purpose had MLU if you couldnt fit them?

You still missing the point. Mining ships has same HP as some cruisers and much less than BC now. Miners have the ability to fit tank (and be ungankable even from talos) or fit for yeld (but still gankable to talos). THEY HAVE A CHOICE NOW

Lord Zimm:
Quote:
What sort of idiot would stick office/faction/deadspace mods on a mining barge which never moves outside of hisec in its life?


Same idiots who fit office/faction/deadspace mods on their l4 mission boats. Also have you ever heard about Aoede MLU?

It's quite clear that you've never dealt with the consequences of ganking. vOv

Oh dear... im pretty sure that you didnt slept, ate or talked to people when you ganked and lost your ultra expensive t1 catalyst (and few % of sec status). The consequences had to be sooo horrible that it definitely damaged your psyche.

"The HP was significantly higher than "a few hundred HP"

Okay sorry for that, i was looking at skiff only. Oops

"Cost of the ship itself is irrelevant"


Then lets nerf all ships in eve so every hull will have only 1000 base HP (even titans) and have only 50 PG.

"And all you have to do is fit a tank. Now that's serious effort, right there"

Well we can play this" game" for ethernity . So again : All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules... Now that's serious effort P

CODE. Venture hunt contest in a nutshell
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#908 - 2012-10-08 12:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
TharOkha wrote:
While you can fit T2 cruiser to be good at tank and at the same time good dps, you could fit your hulk only for good tank or gtfo. Can you tell me then what options miners have in fitting if their only option was to fit the tank? What purpose had MLU if you couldnt fit them?

They're for use in space where you've got control of who goes where. Just because the MLU2s are in the game, doesn't mean that you MUST fit them or the hulk is absolutely worthless.

You're mining in unsafe space, act like it.

TharOkha wrote:
Same idiots who fit office/faction/deadspace mods on their l4 mission boats.

I'm sure the terrible, terrible rats in hisec belts require officer/faction/deadspace mods.

I've never met any of them, but I'm sure they're there, somewhere. Hiding. Waiting. Watching your hulk.

TharOkha wrote:
Oh dear... im pretty sure that you didnt slept, ate or talked to people when you ganked and lost your ultra expensive t1 catalyst (and few % of sec status). The consequences had to be sooo horrible that it definitely damaged your psyche.

Don't be facetious, it doesn't change the fact that ganking is more effort to sustain than you seem to think.

But by all means, act the fool.

TharOkha wrote:
Then lets nerf all ships in eve so every hull will have only 1000 base HP (even titans) and have only 50 PG.

Ah, the "if I can't have my toys in hisec, then NEITHER SHALL NULLSEC HAVE ITS TOYS!" retort.

I mean, I'm sort of expecting myopic retorts at this point, but this one does really take the cake.

TharOkha wrote:
Well we can play this" game" for ethernity . So again : All you have to do now, is just fit nice high dps talos, fit one ship scanner and search for juicy targets with expensive modules... Now that's serious effort P

Except if you fit a tank, this "nice high dps talos" might even have to bring along a friend.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#909 - 2012-10-08 12:45:15 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
I also hear rumors that anyone is free to shoot at people who illegally fire upon innocent ships.

This is dishonoulable. >:(

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why don't miners bring friends? They keep telling us to bring friends to gank them, afterall.

If they brought friends, then the main mining ship of choice wouldn't be the mackinaw (or its t1 equivalent). Draw from that what inference you like.


To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.
Taiwanistan
#910 - 2012-10-08 12:50:13 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

All while fitting cargo expanding modules.

TA on wis: "when we have a feature that is its own functional ecosystem of gameplay then hooks into the greater ecosystem of EVE as a whole, and it provides good replayability."
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#911 - 2012-10-08 12:53:12 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
I also hear rumors that anyone is free to shoot at people who illegally fire upon innocent ships.

This is dishonoulable. >:(

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why don't miners bring friends? They keep telling us to bring friends to gank them, afterall.

If they brought friends, then the main mining ship of choice wouldn't be the mackinaw (or its t1 equivalent). Draw from that what inference you like.


To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

I think it depends on the person. I have, on occasion, spend several hours, upwards of six or so, guarding miners. Usually while browsing fukung or doing some other mindless task like sorting MP3's and whatnot. Iv'e also been on the receiving end of a cloaked miner guard many times.

Just depends...you really never know...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#912 - 2012-10-08 12:57:18 UTC
Taiwanistan wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

All while fitting cargo expanding modules.


No. That makes absolutely no sense. If you fit nothing but cargo expanders you will have no tank and those lows would be better suited to MLU's to be honest. I don't think it has to be a black and white argument. No exhumer is going to stand up to a concerted effort to gank it, especially in nullsec but fitted properly I think it should have a prayer of assistance being able to reach it if coordinated properly.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#913 - 2012-10-08 12:59:26 UTC
Weiland Taur wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

All while fitting cargo expanding modules.


No. That makes absolutely no sense. If you fit nothing but cargo expanders you will have no tank and those lows would be better suited to MLU's to be honest. I don't think it has to be a black and white argument. No exhumer is going to stand up to a concerted effort to gank it, especially in nullsec but fitted properly I think it should have a prayer of assistance being able to reach it if coordinated properly.

How many hulks have you seen, pre-buff, which did not have cargohold optimization rigs?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#914 - 2012-10-08 13:07:31 UTC
TharOkha wrote:

"They had more base EHP than most T2 Cruisers"
They had also much more PG to use (thousand and more vs 40-50) = the ability to fit large tank extenders. While you can fit T2 cruiser to be good at tank and at the same time good dps, you could fit your hulk only for good tank or gtfo. Can you tell me then what options miners have in fitting if their only option was to fit the tank? What purpose had MLU if you couldnt fit them?



Not at all. Exhumers had plenty of tanking potential that was completely unrealized by most Exhumers.
Look at the HG killboard.
Pages and pages of cargo-rigged, cargo-fit Exhumers with empty mid slots.
The tanking potential that was there was simply unused because the miners prioritized cargo or yield over it.

Saying that 'tanking is pointless' is just a copout that completely flies in the face of reality.
Its simply miners making excuses for their bad choice.

"Might as well fit for max cargo and yield, because even if I tank, teh evil gankers will just bring 5 Catalysts and kill me!"

*Popped by single Catalyst*

Miner screams "NO FAIR!!!! My but hurts Need BUF"
Weiland Taur
The Icarus Expedition
Solyaris Chtonium
#915 - 2012-10-08 13:07:42 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:
Taiwanistan wrote:
Weiland Taur wrote:


From my own experience the attention span of a pvp pilot on overwatch during routine mining is the same as a small child in a toy store. No offense to the pvp pilot, but is just isn't what they want to be doing (other than new alliance players trying to score browniw points, but that usually fades). Mining ships should be able to attempt tanking until help arrives and or get the hell out, or die. My idea about gankers bringing friends is that the wolf pack gank squad sounds like a very legitimate tactic to keep costs down and to increase gameplay. Just my opinion.

All while fitting cargo expanding modules.


No. That makes absolutely no sense. If you fit nothing but cargo expanders you will have no tank and those lows would be better suited to MLU's to be honest. I don't think it has to be a black and white argument. No exhumer is going to stand up to a concerted effort to gank it, especially in nullsec but fitted properly I think it should have a prayer of assistance being able to reach it if coordinated properly.

How many hulks have you seen, pre-buff, which did not have cargohold optimization rigs?




I'm simply stating from my experience as a miner among other things. As I have stated in other posts I think fitting an exhumer for yield/hauling is foolish. Those tasks can be better accomplished by jet canning in null and having teamwork in hisec. I think CCP went overboard on the EHP Buff but at the same time I think exhumers being t2 ships that take forever to get into and cost a fortune should have some survivability.
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#916 - 2012-10-08 13:40:01 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#917 - 2012-10-08 13:42:07 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...


So is your awful posting & trolling.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#918 - 2012-10-08 13:42:11 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...

Nobody's whining about the orca just because it's mentioned in the same sentence as the mackinaw, stop grasping at straws.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy
Caldari State
#919 - 2012-10-08 13:45:31 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...

Nobody's whining about the orca just because it's mentioned in the same sentence as the mackinaw, stop grasping at straws.


"...with Orca support for the extra ease of use."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#920 - 2012-10-08 13:48:17 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
To be honest, I see plenty of Macks mining with Orca support for the extra ease of use.


So it's not just Macks anymore, now it's also about Orca. Whining is getting a bit out of control...

Nobody's whining about the orca just because it's mentioned in the same sentence as the mackinaw, stop grasping at straws.


"...with Orca support for the extra ease of use."

HOLY **** SOMEONE SAID IT ADDED EASE OF USE THAT MUST BE WHINING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No, really, stop grasping at straws. The orca is an obvious part of a mining fleet, the only surprise in the picture pipa porto paints is where they used the mackinaw instead of the hulk.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat