EVE General Discussion

If a certain category of gamers, which is however a minority, albeit very vocal and very active, had any sense of common decency and played video games so that everyone, including their opponents, has at least some modicum of fun, instead of using said videogames as Schadenfreude generators (i.e. annoy some random dude across the internet, gank and grief him until he ragequits), then

- Ultima Online would never have been trammelized
- MMORPGs wouldn't have developed into a PvE/PvP server dichotomy
- No virtual universe in which combat can take place would need to hardcode PvP limitations
- There would be absolutely no need for CONCORD in New Eden, players would roleplay and enforce space justice themselves

Lolrandum ganking and online sociopathic griefing (however condoned/coddled by the rules), the aims of which are to revel in the grief caused (You mad? you ragequit? you unsubscribe?), have effectively killed any hope of having true sandbox games with absolute freedom.

It would take a company taking a hard stance against this category of gamers, such as permabanning them, to enable absolute sandbox games.


Enjoy your trammelized highsec! You brought it upon yourself : )

"Banning certain types of gameplay is the only way of making a true sandbox"
The **** kind of logic is that?

That's what I said.

.......become true to your socialist viva le revolution ideaology..... You know, rob the rich to pay the poor.

...... instead of preying on the weak like a raging right-winger.

And yet, UO had to be trammelized because a handful of gankers/griefers made the game very much unfun for the majority of subscribers, pushing the envelope and using borderline to full exploits so as to escape NPC punishment.
Most gamers know that this envelope pushing makes it unfun for the opponent, and, if relied upon constantly, forces devs to allocate time and resources to correct them. This is unproductive and limits roleplaying freedom. Therefore, most gamers don't cheese. Only griefbears do. (and then you have to up CONCORD, and then you have to modifiy insurance, and then you have to trammelize highsec... how many manhours wasted?)

Had this handful been banned, and future ones as well, there wouldn't had been any need for hardcoded PvP limitations, and roleplaying gamers with common decency could have roleplayed very evil characters going on rampages. This would have been very fun and exciting for everyone.


The less you griefbears play the game and the more you consider MMOs as Schadenfreude Online, the more restricted and uncreative PvP is going to be.

You brought this upon yourself.

If a certain category of gamers, which is however a minority, albeit very vocal and very active, had any sense of common decency and played video games so that everyone, including their opponents, has at least some modicum of fun, instead of using said videogames as Schadenfreude generators (i.e. annoy some random dude across the internet, gank and grief him until he ragequits), then

- Ultima Online would never have been trammelized
- MMORPGs wouldn't have developed into a PvE/PvP server dichotomy
- No virtual universe in which combat can take place would need to hardcode PvP limitations
- There would be absolutely no need for CONCORD in New Eden, players would roleplay and enforce space justice themselves

Lolrandum ganking and online sociopathic griefing (however condoned/coddled by the rules), the aims of which are to revel in the grief caused (You mad? you ragequit? you unsubscribe?), have effectively killed any hope of having true sandbox games with absolute freedom.

It would take a company taking a hard stance against this category of gamers, such as permabanning them, to enable absolute sandbox games.


Enjoy your trammelized highsec! You brought it upon yourself : )

EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.

I was about to say “Here’s a Rubik’s cube, go f%$^ yourself,” because that’s what we do with EVE Online.

I just want to be clear. Are you the kind of player who holds his draw fours out of a sense of altruism to his fellow Uno players?

When you play poker, do you try desperately to break even so nobody gets hurt?

When did games become less about winners and losers and more about whiny people not feeling bad because their strategy didn't work out well?

Winners and losers? Are you an edgy hormonally raging 16yr old?

Games are made so that everyone has fun. People playing Monopoly lend money to each other so bankrupt players can continue playing, so the drama can continue. Hell, even poker players do this.

Winning is nice, but in non real money related games, it's a byproduct of having fun. What people meeting to play a game want to, is create a story filled with excitement. You need everybody to partake in it, so you can be emotionally invested. What you don't want, is some tryhard that annoys everybody else and turns story-making into competition peen waving. This kind of person is never invited twice to a gaming session.

Of course, online gaming brings together people who don't know each other, so the less empathic amongst them will tryhard all the way so as to come out on top and get some solace from their aforementioned lack of empathy. "People suck, I'm more clever and I'll show them :[ !"

Gamers everywhere who played recognize Trammel for what it was: The devs of UO mistakenly caving to crybears which inevitably ruined the game.

Games, sir, are about a touch of schadenfreude. That's why we play. We risk defeat for a chance to experience schadenfreude.

Well most of us do. Miners want to do laundry AFK and see their wallets inflate, which will inevitably do more harm to Eve than any ganker could ever dream to have done.

And then it was trammelized, because people had enough of butthattery, and they were much more numerous, subscription-wise, than griefbears.

Griefbears, who were left to play amongst themselves, wondering why it was that nobody other than their kin wanted to play with them : (

Also, do you believe EvE is harsh? you can escape all consequences if you use enough alts... which bring revenue to CCP. How naive are you?

Don't like it, don't play this game. Nobody's forcing you.
And if you're the kind of person who wants a fun game with no stakes and no rewards for winning or consequences for losing, again, this is not the game for you.

“Eve is very dark,” confirms creative director Torfi Frans Ólafsson. “It’s harsh. It is supposed to be unforgiving. The original designers played a lot of Ultima Online, which was a fantastic sandbox game, and it allowed you to be very devious and very immoral in the way that you played. What they loved about it is that player killers, the griefers - people who just went around and killed other people - became so unpopular that other people banded together. Good started fighting evil, and without true evil you can’t have true good. So you had these bands of righteous people chasing player killers, and those player killers were the original Eve designers; they created a game about that mechanic.”