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Buff Ganking--Nevermind, Nerfed Again

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Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#441 - 2012-10-07 02:37:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:

The extra ehp makes macks mpossible to gank pofitably. Killing them is just as easy solo.

For all his faults this man speaks the truth.

"gank profitably" is the problem.

It's just unsettling that CCP and the miners are at fault because the lazy SOB's can't do the kill using a quantity of cheap ships and a quanityt of pilots to achieve the same outcome.

Perhaps we need to be asking why insurance changed - and why. Which one came first?

And let us not forget the inconvenient truth.....

The ganker maximises his combat vessel to make ganking profitable and is heroic and courageous in his endeavours.
The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#442 - 2012-10-07 02:44:40 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
It's just unsettling that CCP and the miners are at fault because the lazy SOB's can't do the kill using a quantity of cheap ships and a quanityt of pilots to achieve the same outcome.

[...]

The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.

The miners are at fault for not adapting to the realities by sacrificing some yield and convenience for survivability, and CCP are at fault for caving to the whines, instead of telling them to stop being such whiny bitches and actually fit a tank to make sologanking unprofitable.

The fit for doing so wasn't hard to fit.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#443 - 2012-10-07 02:53:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Lord Zim wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
It's just unsettling that CCP and the miners are at fault because the lazy SOB's can't do the kill using a quantity of cheap ships and a quanityt of pilots to achieve the same outcome.

[...]

The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.

The miners are at fault for not adapting to the realities by sacrificing some yield and convenience for survivability, and CCP are at fault for caving to the whines, instead of telling them to stop being such whiny bitches and actually fit a tank to make sologanking unprofitable.

The fit for doing so wasn't hard to fit.

I'll reiterate. You left the first line off.

The ganker maximises his combat vessel to make ganking profitable and is heroic and courageous in his endeavours.
The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.

The ganker still has the option to make ganking proftable - even with the buff. They are chosing not to.

That is not the fault of the miner - nor CCP.

Selective omission does not validate obvious BS.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#444 - 2012-10-07 02:55:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Bart Starr
Touval Lysander wrote:

The ganker maximises his combat vessel to make ganking profitable and is heroic and courageous in his endeavours.
The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.


We don't think they are morons for fitting to maximize their mining potential. Perhaps the extra ISK per hour is worth the occasional Exhumer loss. Who am I to say.

The blithering/reckless moron part is when they decide to complain on the forums about getting ganked, after having chosen max yield over a tank.

EDIT: and as far as gankers maximizing gank: There isn't exactly a choice, now is there?
You balance gank, tank and speed.

Tank is useless because Concord is God.
Speed is useless because Concord is God.
Gank is the only thing that matters. **

**(Well, agility vs gank mattered for a short while (Tornado Boomerang) - but that was nerfed within days of CCP discovering it.....so gank, once again, became the only choice.)
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#445 - 2012-10-07 03:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Zim
Touval Lysander wrote:
The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.

So if he doesn't fit his mining vessel with absolutely no tank, it's not profitable mining?

Touval Lysander wrote:
The ganker still has the option to make ganking proftable - even with the buff. They are chosing not to.

Let's hear how you propose they do so.

Touval Lysander wrote:
That is not the fault of the miner - nor CCP.

It is the fault of the miner and of CCP. The miners chose not to adapt, and CCP chose to listen to the miners who were completely unable to adapt, instead of telling them to stop being babbies and fit a tank on their ship.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#446 - 2012-10-07 03:10:52 UTC
Maybe CCP should force PvP in Marauders. Then the meatheads who think they are entitled to force Miners to PvP in a hulk will get it.
Bart Starr
Aggressive Structural Steel Expediting Services
#447 - 2012-10-07 03:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Bart Starr
Lord Zim wrote:
[quote=Touval Lysander]The miner maximises his mining vessel to make mining profitable and is a blithering and reckless moron.
So if he doesn't fit his mining vessel with absolutely no tank, it's not profitable mining?


If I fit my Hurricane like Touval mines, I'd make sure they have the absolute maximum amount of DPS, filling all the slots with Gyros and Tracking Computers. Then I'd say the Hurricane 'sucks' and demand a buff to its base EHP....because I keep getting killed within 3 seconds of combat starting.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#448 - 2012-10-07 03:14:53 UTC
Oggat wrote:
Maybe CCP should force PvP in Marauders. Then the meatheads who think they are entitled to force Miners to PvP in a hulk will get it.

I PVP in a ship worth more than twice a marauder. What's your point?

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#449 - 2012-10-07 03:17:34 UTC
Bart Starr wrote:
If I fit my Hurricane like Touval mines, I'd make sure they have the absolute maximum amount of DPS, filling all the slots with Gyros and Tracking Computers. Then I'd say the Hurricane 'sucks' and demand a buff to its base EHP....because I keep getting killed within 3 seconds of combat starting.

Exactly. Highs all 720s, mids a mwd and sensorboosters, rigs all scanres scripts, a DC2 and all gyro/tracking computers. Voila, an awesome anti-bomber/anti-frig platform, or a very fragile sniping platform.

It has a purpose, it has its place, but it's not the fit I'd bring in a straight up brawl, because I'd be raped every weekday and twice on sundays.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#450 - 2012-10-07 03:17:47 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Oggat wrote:
Maybe CCP should force PvP in Marauders. Then the meatheads who think they are entitled to force Miners to PvP in a hulk will get it.

I PVP in a ship worth more than twice a marauder. What's your point?

What would that be, a dreadnaught..?

I hear "blap dreads" are a thing now, is that true?

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#451 - 2012-10-07 03:35:21 UTC
Actually, it's between 1-3x as much as marauders. And yes, it's blap dreads, amongst others.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat
Pipa Porto
#452 - 2012-10-07 04:15:09 UTC
Amber Coldheart wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:

A barge can be ground back in much less time than Sec status via ratting.

Quite a lot of the ganking is done with disposable alts (at least in the past, i've recently returned to the game and as such, are a tad rusty on the various mechanics)... train a character for a week or two in the relevant skills, gank until his sec status gets too low, recycle the alt and make a new one...

Yes, i know that its "against CCP rules" (at least i think it is), but somehow i dont imagine that'll stop too many people..

But all that aside, on the spesific "barge can be ground back faster than standing", that rather depends on a lot of things, doesnt it ? If its a solo player, you can just forget about that. Even if he has an alt, i'd say its doubtful.

If he has 3+ characters that are dedicated to mining, then yes, it'll be a nuisance rather than a problem to mine back 250'ish million ISK. for new ship and fitting .


Got any evidence that shows people are actually recycling alts? Didn't think so.

An Exhumer can be ground back in much less time than Sec status via ratting. One person ratting makes ~20m ticks for 60m/hr or ~4 hours to a new Exhumer. Ratting up sec status takes much longer.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#453 - 2012-10-07 04:20:37 UTC
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Hell, show me a Destroyer that costs 200k ISK.


Go check Amarr.

I have there 1000 Catalysts for 200k each.


Just checked EVE-Central. I see no such order.

Somehow I doubt you actually put 1b ISK worth of hulls on the market for 200m to get yourself out of a lie.

Show me your mythical 200k ISK destroyer, or stop lying.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Pipa Porto
#454 - 2012-10-07 04:22:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They don't last very long against CONCORD death ray either.


20-30 seconds. ~4 seconds against 800s.

There you go. Yet another gank prevention technique. And we didn't even have to tell you how to do it.


Actually, we did. Though I've been proposing 650s due to better tracking and ROF while still 2 vollying gank catalysts.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#455 - 2012-10-07 04:33:51 UTC
Oggat wrote:
Maybe CCP should force PvP in Marauders. Then the meatheads who think they are entitled to force Miners to PvP in a hulk will get it.


The only thing I'd like to see CCP do is ban people from posting who think "PvP" is some kind of ritualized experience that you magically have when you leave highsec and that both parties engage in hono(u)rable combat until one side or the other is dead, and bringing more than the other person is "dirty blobbing."
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#456 - 2012-10-07 04:34:03 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
But that's what happens when "You constantly contradict yourself....[and] are just trolling and being irrational on purpose".


Like you do on the forums every day?

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#457 - 2012-10-07 04:47:33 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jorma Morkkis wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
They don't last very long against CONCORD death ray either.

20-30 seconds. ~4 seconds against 800s.

There you go. Yet another gank prevention technique. And we didn't even have to tell you how to do it.

Actually, we did. Though I've been proposing 650s due to better tracking and ROF while still 2 vollying gank catalysts.

650s huh. Good to keep in mind.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Oggat
The Adam's Family
#458 - 2012-10-07 05:37:16 UTC
Lord Zim wrote:
Actually, it's between 1-3x as much as marauders. And yes, it's blap dreads, amongst others.


So you PvP in a ship that can tank up to and including a doomsday and you are belly aching because they gave the Hulk some EHP.

Gotcha
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#459 - 2012-10-07 05:42:26 UTC
Oggat wrote:
Lord Zim wrote:
Actually, it's between 1-3x as much as marauders. And yes, it's blap dreads, amongst others.


So you PvP in a ship that can tank up to and including a doomsday and you are belly aching because they gave the Hulk some EHP.

Gotcha

How is that relevant?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#460 - 2012-10-07 06:51:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
But that's what happens when "You constantly contradict yourself....[and] are just trolling and being irrational on purpose".


Like you do on the forums every day?

I do, I do. The trick is to know when I'm playing with your head. It's the only reason I post in Goon threads. You guys post predictable responses and the right sentence here or a right phrase there helps make your poastings easier.

I'm all over the place. Adds to the fun.

Tell ya' what, gimme your account details and I'll make your posts for ya - what you're going to say is written in my head before you even think of it.

It'll save ya fingers given all the click, F1 ya been doing lately. Twisted

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."