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Buff Ganking--Nevermind, Nerfed Again

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Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#381 - 2012-10-06 21:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Touval Lysander wrote:
baltec1 wrote:

Touval Lysander wrote:
So Goon, *I* didn't cause anything. You did.

You only screwed over every miner out there to a greater degree than goons could ever have managed.


So you're STILL claiming you were all being valiant and courageous by killing miners to help miners. Kinda sad really.

But, oh noes, wait, you're NOW convinced that because miners metagamed a change to stop the killing, they screwed up there own game.

So they transformed from what? Constant death/harassment AND pathetic prices to good prices and miner deaths down bigtime.

And that's BAD for miners? How so? baltec, seriously man, even IF prices drop, MinerMan still safer than ever before. Prices will simply be where they were originally so no change.


I think you guys need to fess up that you messed up.

1) You misunderstood how markets really work.
2) You misunderstood that metgaming is not the sole domain of a Goon.
3) You misunderstood CCP's reaction.

You were told, you were warned. You persisted. You lost.

HTFU and stop crying in your warm milk, it's embarrassing.

If miners can claim victory for the buff, then they should rejoice. If YOU are not comfortable with it, go gank ém again.

And hey, hey, before you get angry with me - ask WHY CCP made the buff... It'll go some-way towards understanding what you obviously never understood.

If I went back in time and changed miner to ganker and vice-versa, this post would have been a classic argument for buffing ganking. Just saying.

Not to mention that you can't refute:

Economics wrote:
Value = Demand / Supply


So have fun with that.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#382 - 2012-10-06 21:16:57 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
miners metagamed a change to stop the killing


yeah that's "metagaming" lol

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#383 - 2012-10-06 21:34:23 UTC
Andski wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
miners metagamed a change to stop the killing


yeah that's "metagaming" lol

NEWS JUST IN
Gankers and Goons butthurt over miner buff.

As soon as we work out HOW that happened, we'll update you.

Stay tuned.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#384 - 2012-10-06 21:46:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Question:

If "we" don't understand economics, how is it that I have yet to see you make a compelling argument that refutes my understanding of the economics involved, including the definition of value itself? Shocked

Your meta-gaming lowered the value of your profession.

So I congratulate you again. Be smug.

You didn't tank. You never aligned.

You went on the forums, and together you whined!

Good job! Twisted

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Vanyr Andrard
VacuumTube
#385 - 2012-10-06 21:51:35 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Question:

If "we" don't understand economics, how is it that I have yet to see you make a compelling argument that refutes my understanding of the economics involved, including the definition of value itself? Shocked

Your meta-gaming lowered the value of your profession.

So I congratulate you again. Be smug.

You didn't tank. You never aligned.

You went on the forums, and together you whined!

Good job! Twisted



So, according to your own formulation, instead of using leet tank/align skills, they substituted the powers of grouping up en masse, and propagandizing. Now I see why you guys are so upset about the barge EHP buff...you were beaten at your own game ~_~
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#386 - 2012-10-06 21:51:39 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Question:

If "we" don't understand economics, how is it that I have yet to see you make a compelling argument that refutes my understanding of the economics involved, including the definition of value itself? Shocked

Your meta-gaming lowered the value of your profession.

So I congratulate you again. Be smug.

You didn't tank. You never aligned.

You went on the forums, and together you whined!

Good job! Twisted

Nooooo Darth. You're asking me to validate YOUR hypothesis. I can't, it's not possible.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#387 - 2012-10-06 21:57:29 UTC
He's asking you to INVALIDATE his argument. And he's also right - ganking is good for miners, and the barge change caused a drop in your profits. Congrats.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#388 - 2012-10-06 22:03:59 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:
Question:

If "we" don't understand economics, how is it that I have yet to see you make a compelling argument that refutes my understanding of the economics involved, including the definition of value itself? Shocked

Your meta-gaming lowered the value of your profession.

So I congratulate you again. Be smug.

You didn't tank. You never aligned.

You went on the forums, and together you whined!

Good job! Twisted

Actually, you know, with afterthought that's a good question, but it's easily answered.

Nobody "values" the nursing profession, until you need care.
Nobody "values" the fireman, the ambos, the police, until you need them.

Society however, recognises the value so the profession HAS value by default.

Mining has intrinsic value. Without, NONE of Eve would function. No level of PvP, sov wars etc. could occur WITHOUT miners.

(Granted, without PvP and so wars, mining value would decrease but mining could still continue to fuel a domestic market - missioners/ FW/ etc....)

We need each other.

But we don't need PvP v Miner for that value to be realised either...

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#389 - 2012-10-06 22:12:21 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
He's asking you to INVALIDATE his argument. And he's also right - ganking is good for miners, and the barge change caused a drop in your profits. Congrats.

Errr. No it didn't.

But ofc, both of us can answer that question whichever way we like dependent how far we want to go back. I can go back to < 2 isk for trit and say, with 100% accuracy, that they STILL mined even WITH ganking.

I know. I did. Gankers were inconsequential. You are and always have over-valued YOUR profession.

And really, if BOTS do cause a decrease in ice/ore value (an oft used argument justifying ganking of miners) then the MINERS are not at fault either are they?

Get one thing straight, I have no argument or problem with ganking, I merely have difficulties with your justification of it.

You can indeed just go out there and gank away and be as patriotic as you like in affecting market prices and miner behaviour.

But that's NOT the reason you're complaining is it now?

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#390 - 2012-10-06 22:15:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Darth Gustav
Touval Lysander wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
He's asking you to INVALIDATE his argument. And he's also right - ganking is good for miners, and the barge change caused a drop in your profits. Congrats.

Errr. No it didn't.

But ofc, both of us can answer that question whichever way we like dependent how far we want to go back. I can go back to < 2 isk for trit and say, with 100% accuracy, that they STILL mined even WITH ganking.

I know. I did. Gankers were inconsequential. You are and always have over-valued YOUR profession.

And really, if BOTS do cause a decrease in ice/ore value (an oft used argument justifying ganking of miners) then the MINERS are not at fault either are they?

Get one thing straight, I have no argument or problem with ganking, I merely have difficulties with your justification of it.

You can indeed just go out there and gank away and be as patriotic as you like in affecting market prices and miner behaviour.

But that's NOT the reason you're complaining is it now?

If gankers are so inconsequential you sure do write an awful lot about why they shouldn't be buffed...Roll

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#391 - 2012-10-06 22:16:57 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:
Question:

If "we" don't understand economics, how is it that I have yet to see you make a compelling argument that refutes my understanding of the economics involved, including the definition of value itself? Shocked

Your meta-gaming lowered the value of your profession.

So I congratulate you again. Be smug.

You didn't tank. You never aligned.

You went on the forums, and together you whined!

Good job! Twisted

Actually, you know, with afterthought that's a good question, but it's easily answered.

Nobody "values" the nursing profession, until you need care.
Nobody "values" the fireman, the ambos, the police, until you need them.

Society however, recognises the value so the profession HAS value by default.

Mining has intrinsic value. Without, NONE of Eve would function. No level of PvP, sov wars etc. could occur WITHOUT miners.

(Granted, without PvP and so wars, mining value would decrease but mining could still continue to fuel a domestic market - missioners/ FW/ etc....)

We need each other.

But we don't need PvP v Miner for that value to be realised either...


Also, who's arguing that anybody eliminate mining? That's a strawman. Logical fallacies and shooting yourself in the foot seem to be all your posts are good for...

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#392 - 2012-10-06 22:20:21 UTC
indeed, which is why it's important from a nullsec perspective to keep highsec mins as cheap and plentiful as possible

thanks for the help
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#393 - 2012-10-06 22:22:10 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
indeed, which is why it's important from a nullsec perspective to keep highsec mins as cheap and plentiful as possible

thanks for the help

I actually don't necessarily share that sentiment.

Our wars get really boring when we have literal endless streams of ships to throw at each other.

Which we kind of do right now.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#394 - 2012-10-06 22:25:39 UTC
what if we made drone space like the old days pre-crucible, but only made them drop low-end mins.
then buff hulk ehp some more
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#395 - 2012-10-06 22:29:06 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
NEWS JUST IN
Gankers and Goons butthurt over miner buff.

As soon as we work out HOW that happened, we'll update you.

Stay tuned.


news just in: tantrums and forum whining constitute ~metagaming~

it really isn't and it's pretty undignified

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#396 - 2012-10-06 22:31:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolo da'Vicenza
hey, i 'socially engineered' it so us highsec miners make less individual income

U MAD?!?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#397 - 2012-10-06 22:35:10 UTC
Darth Gustav wrote:

If gankers are so inconsequential you sure do write an awful lot about why they shouldn't be buffed...Roll

Because YOU sir, can STILL gank EASILY. CCP gave you awesome tools to do it.

Your argument is the profitability in ganking and I can suggest that many, many targets of opportunity exist for gankers to make SERIOUS coin notwithstanding the obvious freighter ganks.

What about the FW / Incursion / L4 boats - many with very high value faction/commander mods etc.

Why not we ask? Because it WILL require teamwork. It WILL require being SHOT AT. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Ganking is already easy AND profitable. You're just trying to justify easymode MINER ganking by theorizing about economics.

For the 1056th time, you made NO DIFFERENCE when it was EASY.

You couldn't do it then - your profession failed. You're failing now.

TL;DR You want easymode and you're making **** up to convince YOURSELVES that you're "neccessary". Everybody else sees it for the BS it is.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#398 - 2012-10-06 22:44:23 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:


For the 1056th time, you made NO DIFFERENCE when it was EASY. .

http://wiki.eveonline.com/wikiEN/images/1/15/Oxygen.jpg

lol
Darth Gustav
Sith Interstellar Tech Harvesting
#399 - 2012-10-06 22:44:40 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Darth Gustav wrote:

If gankers are so inconsequential you sure do write an awful lot about why they shouldn't be buffed...Roll

Because YOU sir, can STILL gank EASILY. CCP gave you awesome tools to do it.

Your argument is the profitability in ganking and I can suggest that many, many targets of opportunity exist for gankers to make SERIOUS coin notwithstanding the obvious freighter ganks.

What about the FW / Incursion / L4 boats - many with very high value faction/commander mods etc.

Why not we ask? Because it WILL require teamwork. It WILL require being SHOT AT. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM.

Ganking is already easy AND profitable. You're just trying to justify easymode MINER ganking by theorizing about economics.

For the 1056th time, you made NO DIFFERENCE when it was EASY.

You couldn't do it then - your profession failed. You're failing now.

TL;DR You want easymode and you're making **** up to convince YOURSELVES that you're "neccessary". Everybody else sees it for the BS it is.

We made such little difference you bragged about stopping us earlier in the thread with an alt and "clever metagaming."

I am no different than MinerMan. I just want to activate modules on stuff that doesn't adapt.

He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#400 - 2012-10-06 22:46:26 UTC
Andski wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
NEWS JUST IN
Gankers and Goons butthurt over miner buff.

As soon as we work out HOW that happened, we'll update you.

Stay tuned.


news just in: tantrums and forum whining constitute ~metagaming~

it really isn't and it's pretty undignified

I direct your attention to the OP. Go on, look. Does it constitute tantrum and forum whining?

Are Goons posting copious responses SUPPORTING a tantrum and whine thread?

Would that be the same Goons that don't actually mine, don't live in highsec and had absolutely no idea they could be beaten at their own game?

Is that the same Goons that flood forums or post bad things when they dont get their own way or when someone posts **** about them?

You taught well Goon. Beware the pupil.

Now, really. Haven't you got someone to rofl-stomp into the ground? Go and do YOUR job properly and stop worrying yourself needlessly about MY finances.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."