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im looking at the gap between pve and pvp and wondering.

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Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#21 - 2012-10-02 00:44:59 UTC
... just don't come back here crying when the mission rats start decloaking their falcon alts, and lighting cynos.

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
Alara IonStorm
#22 - 2012-10-02 00:45:55 UTC
Mirima Thurander wrote:
I think that less rats but them being more engaging to fight would be a good thing.

I am hoping for less but tougher rats as well.

Every time my Battleship warps into a Level 4 surrounded by 25 Ships it makes me a little sad.

They are kind of like big loot bags rather then Warships. At this point the weapons might as well be firework launchers to celebrate getting a bounty.

Spawns should be small / randomized / tactic based. This one uses Logi, this one DPS, this one Tank, this one EWAR.

That sort of thing.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#23 - 2012-10-02 00:50:30 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
... just don't come back here crying when the mission rats start decloaking their falcon alts, and lighting cynos.

I'd love to see their highsec cyno modules...

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Paul Oliver
Doomheim
#24 - 2012-10-02 00:52:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Paul Oliver
Honestly it would be nice if the whole mission system were overhauled and made into something more dynamic with less repetition and emphasis on working together with others to finish the missions, kind of like with incursions.

But I guess that would be too "theme park".
Its good to be [Gallente](http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1209/QEQlJ.jpg).
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#25 - 2012-10-02 00:56:28 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:


But I guess that would be too "theme park".


Boring is not a defining element of a sandbox, not even of pvp within said sandbox.
Mirima Thurander
#26 - 2012-10-02 01:01:01 UTC
I love npc's to upgrade there ship lay out for what your fleets flying if only to make it harder.

Like say some logis warp in and out if you attack them and things like that.

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Grumpymunky
Monkey Steals The Peach
#27 - 2012-10-02 01:04:18 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
... just don't come back here crying when the mission rats start decloaking their falcon alts, and lighting cynos.

I'd love to see their highsec cyno modules...
Well I suppose if they only want their missions to be more like the highsec pvp experience, the red crosses can huddle around an indestructible station with neutral NPCs that repair them, and then dock if they start taking damage. P

Post with your monkey.

Thread locked due to lack of pants.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#28 - 2012-10-02 01:16:39 UTC
I will have to wait and see but im guessing my drones will suffer from the new AI.
rodyas
Tie Fighters Inc
#29 - 2012-10-02 01:20:25 UTC
This is almost too funny, A lot of people use BSs for missions, but they are hardly used in PVP. Its almost ******** to make missions more like pvp, with that happening. I say go make everyone fly BSs in pvp, then turn to missions and make us wear pvp fits.

Right now we "are" using pvp fits in missions, since we are the only ones flying lot so of BSs.

Signature removed for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#30 - 2012-10-02 01:27:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Akirei Scytale
Fkn Arson wrote:
I believe that is the entire point behind what they are doing to the npc's. Its a gradual shift towards wanting there to be little differences between pve and pvp setups/skillsets.


There will always be a large divide between an AI and a Human, no matter ho well programmed the AI is. Eventually, a pattern can be observed with an AI. Humans can be genuinely unpredictable. Mind games and intimidation only work on humans. Same with surprise, misdirection, etc. Assumptions placed on a human's behavior will usually turn out wrong. AIs on the other hand? Once you figure them out, its a game of percentages or hierarchies, and it is a joke to stay 50 steps ahead of one and know exactly what to expect.

Its why even in games with the very best AIs around today, PvP style players still almost exclusively PvP, and the skillsets required remain extremely different.
Mirima Thurander
#31 - 2012-10-02 01:52:05 UTC
Still I seen it work logis that flew incursions Befor try out pvp fared better that logis that did not.

So it shows that hard more complex npcs can have an effect on peoples ablity to grasp pvp tactics sooner

All automated intel should be removed from the game including Instant local/jumps/kills/cynos for all systems/regions.Eve should report nothing like this to the client/3rd party software.Intel should not be force fed to players. Player skill and iniative should be the sources of intel.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#32 - 2012-10-02 02:02:51 UTC
aye AI is dumb no matter what but point should be that u introduce new player to pvp gear no matter what so gap is not huge like now is.

I think that is much better focus then current one of farming dots and having 0.1% game experience .

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#33 - 2012-10-02 03:04:19 UTC
Grumpymunky wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Grumpymunky wrote:
... just don't come back here crying when the mission rats start decloaking their falcon alts, and lighting cynos.

I'd love to see their highsec cyno modules...
Well I suppose if they only want their missions to be more like the highsec pvp experience, the red crosses can huddle around an indestructible station with neutral NPCs that repair them, and then dock if they start taking damage. P

Your mission: survive and make Evil McGanker (Red + edition) dock up. Then you may return for your reward !

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#34 - 2012-10-02 05:24:53 UTC
Quoting from this thread https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155703

CCP FoxFour wrote:
Our end goal is to have PvE and PvP be similar enough that you bring the same fits to both and that yes, there will be far fewer red boxes and a more enjoyable experience killing them.


So EVE is getting vastly better as a game sometime in the future.

Better PVE brings more subs. PVP-like PVE makes it more practical to do it outside hisec, and makes the transition from a carebear to an EVE player smoother. PVP might become generally better as even the noobs has similar experience from doing PVE?

.
Garonor
Aegis Security Consulting
#35 - 2012-10-02 07:47:43 UTC
I am (among some other things) a mission runner, at least that's what I do to earn most of my ISK on this toon. And quite frankly, I'm looking forward to this change. Missions are very reptetitive and if you have done them a certain number of times, they don't pose a real challenge, because you know exactly what happens at which point, where the triggers are and so on. So maybe with the AI-update this will (to a certain degree) change and missions will become more dynamic. Also there will be no more cookie-cutter-fits and you'll actually have to think about how to go best about a certain situation.

But maybe I'm wrong, and this change just results in the emergence of other cookie-cutter-fits and -ships. I guess there's only one way to find out...
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#36 - 2012-10-02 07:53:52 UTC
1. Its absolutely right that they are moving ships towards every ship having a PvP setup, they said so in the QEN's

2. PLEX is the breaking point of this game. No PLEX no Eve. Everyone is looking to hisec carebears saying HTFU. If they ever change the null rats and complexes to have A.I. that starts ******* with people's ISK per hour the game will break. It will only be wounded when they do it to hisec.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
Pandemic Horde
#37 - 2012-10-02 09:41:46 UTC
rodyas wrote:
This is almost too funny, A lot of people use BSs for missions, but they are hardly used in PVP. Its almost ******** to make missions more like pvp, with that happening. I say go make everyone fly BSs in pvp, then turn to missions and make us wear pvp fits.

Right now we "are" using pvp fits in missions, since we are the only ones flying lot so of BSs.


Erm, apart from the fact that every 0.0 alliance has at least one fleet doctrine based on battleships. They are used a lot in lowsec and even more in highsec. Even in wormholes where mass limitation makes them less desirable most fleets still have a few.
Prince Kobol
#38 - 2012-10-02 10:55:49 UTC
Feck less NPC's I want more.. a lot more, a **** load more.

I want level 4 missions to have the same AI as sleepers and be completely and utterly impossible to be afk and to be solo'ed in any ship that can fly in HS.

I want the NPC's to be flying Logi andECM ships, I want people to have to fleet up with others and actually think about their ship fits and work together as a Team before tackling level 4 Missions

Sure you will get lots of people in NPC's corps crying but like I give a damn.

You want to shoot spaceships solo, go and download Freespace 2 (its free) or some other single person spaceship game
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#39 - 2012-10-02 11:01:13 UTC
Paul Oliver wrote:
Honestly it would be nice if the whole mission system were overhauled and made into something more dynamic with less repetition and emphasis on working together with others to finish the missions, kind of like with incursions.

But I guess that would be too "theme park".


"Theme park" is where your advancement through the game is railroaded: here, take this story we prepared earlier, keep your arms inside the vehicle at all times, etc. There's no rule that says you can't have PvE content in a sandbox game.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Sheynan
Lighting the blight
#40 - 2012-10-02 12:13:58 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
1. Its absolutely right that they are moving ships towards every ship having a PvP setup, they said so in the QEN's

2. PLEX is the breaking point of this game. No PLEX no Eve. Everyone is looking to hisec carebears saying HTFU. If they ever change the null rats and complexes to have A.I. that starts ******* with people's ISK per hour the game will break. It will only be wounded when they do it to hisec.



When (nearly) everyone makes less money and thus stops buying PLEXes the price will go down until it is reasonable for previous PLEX buyers to buy them again.
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