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Retribution's New Bounty System

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Pipa Porto
#161 - 2012-10-02 14:19:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
honestly, Pipa, I'm really disappointed with you taking a stand against a shift to player-enforced consequences rather than yet another dreary CONCORD boost. Especially one that promotes the holy grails of solo PvP and hi-sec PvP. Is non consensual PvP only desirable when it's against players in defenceless non combat ships or something? You're sounding like the stereotype "gankbear" in the badposts about piracy and ganking. Stop feeding those guys lines for the love of God.


What's wrong with your targets being able to know they're being hunted, and be able to fight back?

Suicide Gank Victims can do both. Scouts/Dscan, and Guards work wonders to foil most suicide gank.

Blind Tradeable killright targets can't find out who's gunning from them and can't be effectively helped.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Hrothgar Nilsson
#162 - 2012-10-02 14:20:52 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:


Every bounty system I've seen is made moot due to alts.



I will wait to see what CCP has come up with, however I pretty much agree with your point. Any bounty system suffers from the same weakness shared by any "lock and key" system, be it a physical lock or a DRM scheme buried in a lot of encrypted goobledegook. You can do whatever you want to obfuscate, but at the end of the day if you allow user "X" to open the lock, then users "Y" and "Z" will also be able to open the lock if they have the right key/code/password/etc.

Therefore if any player can claim a bounty, then an alt can also claim a bounty, since it is impossible for CCP to prove who I am friends with or who is working for me.

The only system I could imagine as working is if the person who is hunted has absolutely no idea that a price is on their head, and if the person offering the reward can limit it to a specific person/corp when placing the bounty. But that still doesn't stop people from scamming, like a popular bounty-hunter corp could for example offer to split the bounties with the wanted people, in exchange for letting themselves be killed.

There's this fun little screenshot of a prototype of the new bounty system:

http://www.blogcdn.com/massively.joystiq.com/media/2012/09/eve-bounty.jpg

Rank 1 Bounties: 30% payout per kill
Rank 2 Bounties: 29% payout per kill
Rank 3 Bounties: 28% payout per kill

Who the heck is going to volunteer themselves to be killed for a return of 30 cents on the dollar, split two ways?

It would be like opening a savings account with an advertised -70% interest rate.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...
Pipa Porto
#163 - 2012-10-02 14:22:24 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:

1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him
2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable
3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking
4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship.
5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time


1) But he can't find out who they are, so that's no advantage.
2) So can the gank victim.
3) Crimewatch (as currently on the table) would make that logistics help suicidal.
4) So?
5) A month. And Alert to what? Someone scrambling him? Cause that's his first warning.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#164 - 2012-10-02 14:36:37 UTC
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:Þ


And when we can expect that being published? :)


if I'd tell you this wouldn't be a good tease!


Sooner you publish, bigger tearz you collect. And as we all know space hamsterz run on tearz.


The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#165 - 2012-10-02 14:39:12 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:

1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him
2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable
3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking
4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship.
5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time


1) But he can't find out who they are, so that's no advantage.


Oh right, you're just trolling. Sorry, carry on.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#166 - 2012-10-02 14:48:10 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pipa Porto
#167 - 2012-10-02 14:55:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Meanwhile, let me list the advantages the killright victim has over the gank victim:

1) Only the guy with the killright can attack him
2) He can be in any ship he likes, presumably one that's PvP capable
3) He's likely to be in the company of other PvPers who may be willing to assist him eg with logistics, bumping or even suicide ganking
4) He's unlikely to have expensive fittings, and won't necessarily be in a T2 ship.
5) He knows that there are killrights on him, and has a specific reason to be alert for a known period of time


1) But he can't find out who they are, so that's no advantage.


Oh right, you're just trolling. Sorry, carry on.


Nope, just assuming the killright has been transferred.

Like I said, I'm fine with (and would be excited about) kill rights being transferable if the target of said killright were alerted to transfers and able to shoot back at the new owner of the killright.

Otherwise, it's suicide ganking without the enormous advantage the suicide gank victim has:
The Ganker loses their ship, so fitting a tank makes the gank less and less likely because it rapidly becomes expensive. Killright kills don't cost the attacker anything.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Palovana
Inner Fire Inc.
#168 - 2012-10-02 14:56:56 UTC
Quick idea:

For public bounties, bounties are not paid if the hunter and hunted are connected from the same IP address (ie, you can't pod your alt to collect the bounty) or are in the same corp.

For private (internal to alliance or corp) bounties, the same-corp restriction is lifted, to allow for dealing with awoxers and spies that never dock (can't kick them if they're not docked). Still can't collect bounty if you're connected from the same IP

Please support: export of settings in editable format

Your stuff goes here.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#169 - 2012-10-02 15:01:47 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Killright kills don't cost the attacker anything.


Except the ship that was lost to create the killright in the first place

Malcanis wrote:
Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.




"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Pipa Porto
#170 - 2012-10-02 15:09:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Killright kills don't cost the attacker anything.


Except the ship that was lost to create the killright in the first place


How is that relvant to the fight between the killright purchaser and killright target? Or are you admitting that you don't want a fight after all?

Quote:
Malcanis wrote:
Alternatively, stop ganking and pirating if you're worried about people in ships more threatening than haulers and hulks shooting back at you.


Again, the problem isn't people coming to shoot the person with the killright. The problem is that there'd be no way to tell who's coming for them so there's no way to avoid it. And no way to effectively fight back, as their friends can't assist and the attacker has the mechanically enforced element of surprise.

Like I said twice before, remove the blind part and allow the bounty to hunt the bounty hunter (as it were), and transferable killrights are a great idea,

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Bloodpetal
Tir Capital Management Group
#171 - 2012-10-02 15:12:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:


Sooner you publish, bigger tearz you collect. And as we all know space hamsterz run on tearz.


The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3



Hmm...

Bounty hunting + Favorite movie of all time = Domino

That's my guess? And might apply to EVE with all the "do it yourself" bounty hunting?




So, here's what I think you're gonna do (there were hints a Massively article) ::

1. Put a bounty on anyone anywhere (Oh yes, I will be tagging high seccers for bounty. It will be glorious.)
2. Let us choose how we want bounty payouts handled. (25m isk per kill or % of whatever)


What I would like to see... is the following though ::

A bounty hunting barrier of entry so not everyone can or is willing to become a bounty hunter has to be involved or gets perks for doing the bounty hunting. Perhaps some kind of "Missions" focused on PVP... i.e. it gives that bounty hunter a list of players to go find, and if he kills any one of them he can proceed to the next mission. Until he earns his bounty hunting "Tag".

I don't expect to see content driven elements to this feature, but I'd like to see it ;p

Where I am.
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#172 - 2012-10-02 15:25:36 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:Þ


And when we can expect that being published? :)


if I'd tell you this wouldn't be a good tease!


Sooner you publish, bigger tearz you collect. And as we all know space hamsterz run on tearz.


The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3



Hey CCP punkturis I really like you and would like to know something about you
What is your favorite movie for example?

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
CCP Punkturis
C C P
C C P Alliance
#173 - 2012-10-02 15:37:06 UTC
lanyaie wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
Schmata Bastanold wrote:
CCP Punkturis wrote:
wow you guys post a lot. I'm still just going to let you speculate until you see my team's first dev blog:Þ


And when we can expect that being published? :)


if I'd tell you this wouldn't be a good tease!


Sooner you publish, bigger tearz you collect. And as we all know space hamsterz run on tearz.


The first draft of the dev blog has a reference to one of my two favorite movies :3



Hey CCP punkturis I really like you and would like to know something about you
What is your favorite movie for example?


princess bride and elf!

♥ EVE Brogrammer ♥ Team Five 0 ♥ @CCP_Punkturis ♥
Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#174 - 2012-10-02 15:58:36 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

Oh, I'm not worried at all about that being the case. :) I'm quite resigned to the fact that I'll be one of the first people out there with a substantial bounty pool on my head. My alts too, once they are all discovered.


oh really hans ;)
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#175 - 2012-10-02 16:03:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
wanted, dead or alife

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#176 - 2012-10-02 16:12:35 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:


princess bride and elf!

oh I love that movie too, so are we gonna get fairy tales in the devblog?

Spaceprincess

People who put passwords on char bazaar Eveboards are the worst.
Shandir
EVE University
Ivy League
#177 - 2012-10-02 16:15:17 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
princess bride


"You killed my father, now prepare to die"

Do I get a cookie?
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#178 - 2012-10-02 16:15:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
honestly, Pipa, I'm really disappointed with you taking a stand against a shift to player-enforced consequences rather than yet another dreary CONCORD boost. Especially one that promotes the holy grails of solo PvP and hi-sec PvP. Is non consensual PvP only desirable when it's against players in defenceless non combat ships or something? You're sounding like the stereotype "gankbear" in the badposts about piracy and ganking. Stop feeding those guys lines for the love of God.


What's wrong with your targets being able to know they're being hunted, and be able to fight back?

Suicide Gank Victims can do both. Scouts/Dscan, and Guards work wonders to foil most suicide gank.

Blind Tradeable killright targets can't find out who's gunning from them and can't be effectively helped.



Seriously? I don't understand how you cant see how stupid your argument is. Suicide gank victims don't know they're being hunted. If they did, they wouldn't be suicide gank victims now would they? Your same argument could be applied to people with transferred kill rights. Let them scan and hire guards.

You understand how kill rights work right? As soon as the person with kill rights starts shooting the other person can shoot back.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf
Pipa Porto
#179 - 2012-10-02 16:51:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Arduemont wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
honestly, Pipa, I'm really disappointed with you taking a stand against a shift to player-enforced consequences rather than yet another dreary CONCORD boost. Especially one that promotes the holy grails of solo PvP and hi-sec PvP. Is non consensual PvP only desirable when it's against players in defenceless non combat ships or something? You're sounding like the stereotype "gankbear" in the badposts about piracy and ganking. Stop feeding those guys lines for the love of God.


What's wrong with your targets being able to know they're being hunted, and be able to fight back?

Suicide Gank Victims can do both. Scouts/Dscan, and Guards work wonders to foil most suicide gank.

Blind Tradeable killright targets can't find out who's gunning from them and can't be effectively helped.



Seriously? I don't understand how you cant see how stupid your argument is. Suicide gank victims don't know they're being hunted. If they did, they wouldn't be suicide gank victims now would they? Your same argument could be applied to people with transferred kill rights. Let them scan and hire guards.

You understand how kill rights work right? As soon as the person with kill rights starts shooting the other person can shoot back.


Suicide victims can find out who's hunting them and avoid them. It's called local and d-Scan. That they choose not to is irrelevant.

Except that the targets of transferred killrights have nothing to look for on the scan (as their hunters are not limited to certain hulls due to needing to be cost conscious), and their guards can't do anything nearly as effective as gank victims' guards could (no ECM, no shooting the gankers).

Yes. But not before. Why should the purchaser of a killright get the first shot and the element of surprise, both mechanically enforced, without any consequence?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Hrothgar Nilsson
#180 - 2012-10-02 17:02:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Hrothgar Nilsson
WTH is all this talk about purchasing of kill rights? What does it have to do with the bounty system? Doesn't kill rights discussion belong in Crimewatch discussion?

The new bounty system appears to simply be that of anyone can place a bounty on anyone, and those who set up the bounty pick a percentage of damages inflicted to be paid out for kills.

I've... seen things you people wouldn't believe...

Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion...