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Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2012-10-14 06:43:03 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.
Sounds like a foolproof plan.
Not a lot of Heavy Interdictors whipping about in highsec.
Yet.

You expecting some sort of rebalance that turns heavy interdictors into speedy combat beasts?
Pipa Porto
#482 - 2012-10-14 06:46:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Ranger 1 wrote:
I believe that repping your corp mate does make the logistics part of the limited engagement.

I could be incorrect on that (and am too tired at the moment to recheck the Dev Blog)... if so my apologies.


CCP has made it quite clear that they are unwilling to make the aggression maps that transferring LE status would require.

CCP Masterplan wrote:
If we start propating LEs, we basically end up back with the old aggression-graph, where assisting a single target can end up flagging you to an un-knowable set of people. That is what we're trying to avoid with the flag system.


Quote:
Still, that in no way keeps the person with the kill right from having their own logistics... if they are willing to risk it. In most of high sec, considering the unpreparedness for actual PVP combat, that actually isn't that big a risk if they are prepared.

Lets be realistic about this, the vast majority of traffic in your average high sec system is either haulers or mission fit ships... and mission fit ships are in no way capable of providing a challenge to someone looking for trouble. They might be able to out tank him (depending on the ship) but they won't even be able to hold him let alone kill him.

Someone looking to lure people into giving him a go really only have to worry about running into a group that is engaged in an active war (something I am assured NEVER happens anymore Big smileBig smileBig smile) or a bounty hunter/RvB/FW / or suicide gank group set up to snag and bag someone.

His prey will be the person that notices the kill right and reflexively goes after it thinking "I just did Angel Extravaganza in this ship, surely I can handle this lone Dominix"... and he'll keep milking the kill right until someone finally gets him. He'll know this is likely to happen eventually, but he'll get plenty of entertainment out of it and with skilled hauler buddy in the area he may very well make money off the loot.

You can keep telling yourself that it won't happen, but if I end up with a kill right on one of my characters this will be the route I'll take. Most any combat oriented pilot (RvB pilots come to mind) will do the same.


So you're saying that the new killrights are only balanced because people in HS are too incompetant to deal with a one way Free for all with CONCORD protected Logistics? What happens when they figure out that all they need is a point, a moderate tank (local or remote), and right click > Invite to fleet.

By the way, funny story, it seems that since killrights will be frontloaded (so you can still shoot back and get a killright even if you survive), anyone in LS is gonna be picking up a huge number of them.


CCP Masterplan wrote:

Kill rights

Performing an action against another player that gets you a Criminal flag will also award a kill-right to that person. This will happen regardless of whether or not the target ship was destroyed. This will feed in to the revamped bounty system that Team Super Friends will be talking about very shortly, so look for a dev blog coming from them soon.

Someone posted a comparison between current killright acquisition.

CCP Masterplan wrote:
No it won't work like that any more. Just the act of a criminal attack will create the kill right. What happens after that (victim fights back or not, victim dies or not) won't change anything

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Pipa Porto
#483 - 2012-10-14 06:48:15 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
You expecting some sort of rebalance that turns heavy interdictors into speedy combat beasts?


They don't need anything other than their infini-point and some tank. Remember, it's a one directional free for all.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#484 - 2012-10-14 09:38:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, funny story, it seems that since killrights will be frontloaded (so you can still shoot back and get a killright even if you survive), anyone in LS is gonna be picking up a huge number of them.


People in lowsec wont be getting killrights much at all, as they can only incur one from firing at a pod, which (if you know what your doing in a pod) is really really really difficult in lowsec. So in short, this is false.

Edit: The only people who will have killrights against them will be suicide gankers, and pod shooting low seccies.

Pipa Porto wrote:
And the way CCP is going with these things, I see no reason to expect that there will be any way to discover who put a bounty on you.


They've already said putting a bounty on someone will not be anonymous. Dont ask me where I read that, if memory serves a Dev said it somewhere on the forums.

Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.


If you have killrights against you, you'll know about it and therefore you should be prepared whenever you go into highsec. In which case you'll be just as likely to succeed and kill people yourself as someone traveling through hostile nullsec. Man up.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Pipa Porto
#485 - 2012-10-14 11:35:43 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
People in lowsec wont be getting killrights much at all, as they can only incur one from firing at a pod, which (if you know what your doing in a pod) is really really really difficult in lowsec. So in short, this is false.

Edit: The only people who will have killrights against them will be suicide gankers, and pod shooting low seccies.


Ransom a Pod > Killright. Kill a pod > Killright
Most people in LS catch pods somewhat regularly.

As for HS, with Suicide Ganks, why should you get to shoot back (likely foiling the gank) and still get a killright (especially with the silly new public version of killrights) against the people who didn't kill your ship?

It used to be that killrights were compensation for someone killing your ship when you didn't choose to fight back. Now it's someone daring to attack you in HS. Gotta make the HS bears comfortable, I guess.

Quote:
They've already said putting a bounty on someone will not be anonymous. Dont ask me where I read that, if memory serves a Dev said it somewhere on the forums.


I'll have to ask you where you read it, since I went through the killright/bounty thread dev posts and didn't see any such thing.

Quote:
If you have killrights against you, you'll know about it and therefore you should be prepared whenever you go into highsec. In which case you'll be just as likely to succeed and kill people yourself as someone traveling through hostile nullsec. Man up.


Remind me, which mechanic in Hostile Nullsec automagically blows up your ship if you shoot first?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#486 - 2012-10-14 12:25:33 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ransom a Pod > Killright. Kill a pod > Killright
Most people in LS catch pods somewhat regularly.


Who does that anymore? Random a ship, don't be greedy.

Pipa Porto wrote:
As for HS, with Suicide Ganks, why should you get to shoot back (likely foiling the gank) and still get a killright (especially with the silly new public version of killrights) against the people who didn't kill your ship?


Suicide ganking is literally the easiest form of PvP around, with no risk (losing your ship is not a risk when it is fit to die and only cost 5m ISK).

Pipa Porto wrote:
It used to be that killrights were compensation for someone killing your ship when you didn't choose to fight back. Now it's someone daring to attack you in HS. Gotta make the HS bears comfortable, I guess.


Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong.

Pipa Porto wrote:
I'll have to ask you where you read it, since I went through the killright/bounty thread dev posts and didn't see any such thing.


Too bad, can't remember. Look harder, I cant be bothered.

I don't know why I bother, your responses to each post are terrible. I fully expect another bunch of terrible replies to this one.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#487 - 2012-10-14 12:38:41 UTC
CCP Punkturis wrote:
I don't understand why people keep saying you'll be able to place bounty on ship types in the new system.....



I'm not English native but I have the feeling at some point I can read it. But I'm clearly disappointed so many English native ones seem having troubles with that dev blog reading.
This system is absolutely fantastic and answer to so many requests pointed all over the years of EvE existence I clearly don't understand why so much fear and apocalyptic threads about it.

Excellent move, excellent revamp, excellent fix. Your route for excellence has never been that short. Bravo.

brb

Pipa Porto
#488 - 2012-10-14 12:45:00 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Who does that anymore? Random a ship, don't be greedy.

Catch pods? Anyone with a point. If I catch your pod in LS, why shouldn't I ransom you?

Quote:
Suicide ganking is literally the easiest form of PvP around, with no risk (losing your ship is not a risk when it is fit to die and only cost 5m ISK).


Suicide ganking is exactly as difficult as the target makes it. The fixed cost of a suicide gank is certainly a risk. For one, there's the high probability that the loot/salvage from your target will not cover that fixed cost (especially in the case of ganking miners).
Besides that, you can't claim that losing a ship with a probability of .005 (or whatever the probability per hour of getting a Mack ganked) is more risky than losing a ship with a probability of 1.

By the way, I did the math in another thread, assuming there are an average of 1700 Exhumers mining in HS at any given time, the amortized risk of Suicide ganking throughout the period of HAG was about 500k ISK/hr (you accept this risk in order to mine and return with X isk). Losing 2-3 dessies per hour is an amortized risk of 10-15m per hour (you accept this risk in order to gank and return with hopefully more ISK). Also, a T1 fit Destroyer could not reliably solo gank an Exhumer, but I get how lying about that makes you feel better.

Do the math with more realistic numbers (during HAG, using a T2 Catalyst which, by the way, could only gank untanked Hulks, assuming 3 ganks/hr because more is unlikely):
Miner: Risk 500k isk/hr, Reward 15m isk/hr (every hour). Profit: 14.5m isk/hr
Ganker: Risk 45m isk, Reward ~60m isk/hr (on average, over a number of ganks). Profit: 15m isk/hr. Divide by the 2 accounts you need (Scout/Looter + Gank) and you get 7.5m ISK/hr.
Higher risk, lower reward, and greater uncertainty for the ganker.

Quote:
Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong.


Friends with ECM
Friends with DPS
ECM Drones
Mining aligned
Tanking your ship
Scouting
D-Scan

All things you can do to effectively fight back or otherwise avoid being the victim of a successful gank. Choosing not to do anything and complaining that you "couldn't fight back" is ridiculous.

Quote:
Too bad, can't remember. Look harder, I cant be bothered.


Why should I have to provide evidence for your claim?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#489 - 2012-10-14 13:13:36 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Remind me, which mechanic in Hostile Nullsec automagically blows up your ship if you shoot first?


You don't need more than a couple seconds before you get blown up if you show up in front of the station when you dare to show up without large fleet or large gang with huge amount of logistics and an excellent FC, witch is, in a player driven game a huge time consumption for organisation.

Now if you tell me what concord has to do in a player driven game I would answer you that if high sec was really high sec you couldn't even target another player. This would obviously lead to actual whiners, whining for peanuts and candies, to not being even remotely able to pass a single gate in high sec without getting blown up by faction police.
This would be a real high security level witch it isn't.

This would also cut and simply kill grieffing (abuse of mechanics to kill someone just because he's unaware of aggression rules that represents a huge amount of kills if not the only kills a huge number of players have in their killboard and are so proud)
But then more sure about this than I'm sure tomorrow will be rainy the number of alt accounts unsub and risk averse players unsub would hit unprecedented records, in the end the whole game would win a lot more on the long run that it wins right now.

brb

Lin-Young Borovskova
Doomheim
#490 - 2012-10-14 13:16:13 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Who does that anymore? Random a ship, don't be greedy.

Catch pods? Anyone with a point. If I catch your pod in LS, why shouldn't I ransom you?



You can ask ransom, the only idiot in this affair is the guy who pays because he will get killed 99% of the time anyway.

Who's fault?

brb

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#491 - 2012-10-14 13:43:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I can't help but read your posts and cringe at almost everything you say.

Pipa Porto wrote:

Catch pods? Anyone with a point. If I catch your pod in LS, why shouldn't I ransom you?


Because you'll get kill rights on you. Don't get me wrong, you can if you like, I'm fine with you doing it, you just have to deal with the repercussions (See what I did there?). What I am basically saying is that catching pods is such an infinitely small part of PvP I don't understand why your whining about that. Basically what I hear is "WWWWHHHHAAAAAA, I DONT WANT TO GET KILLRIGHTS WHEN I SHOOT AT PODS".

Pipa Porto wrote:
Suicide ganking is exactly as difficult as the target makes it. The fixed cost of a suicide gank is certainly a risk. For one, there's the high probability that the loot/salvage from your target will not cover that fixed cost (especially in the case of ganking miners).
Besides that, you can't claim that losing a ship with a probability of .005 (or whatever the probability per hour of getting a Mack ganked) is more risky than losing a ship with a probability of 1.


My god, cringe worthy. Losing your ship in a suicide gank is not a risk, you account for that when you decide to SUICIDE gank. Also, your comment about it being as hard as the target makes it for you is ridiculous, your in high-sec, you can choose whatever target you like. If your choosing a risky target your suicide ganking wrong. Also, your maths is terrible.

Pipa Porto wrote:
By the way, I did the math in another thread, assuming there are an average of 1700 Exhumers mining in HS at any given time, the amortized risk of Suicide ganking throughout the period of HAG was about 500k ISK/hr (you accept this risk in order to mine and return with X isk). Losing 2-3 dessies per hour is an amortized risk of 10-15m per hour (you accept this risk in order to gank and return with hopefully more ISK). Also, a T1 fit Destroyer could not reliably solo gank an Exhumer, but I get how lying about that makes you feel better.


Losing ISK on buying Dessies is not a RISK. You need to get this right, you should have accounted for that. The only risk your taking is that the gank wont cover the cost. Suicide ganking is not meant to be profitable anyway, not unless your pulling off large and organised freighter or hauler ganks. In which case you use a cargo scanner and you know roughly how much your going to get out of it. If your suicide ganking exhumers your doing it for kicks, not ISK. Thinking you'll earn money from suicide ganking exhumers is idiocy.


Pipa Porto wrote:
Friends with ECM
Friends with DPS
ECM Drones
Mining aligned
Tanking your ship
Scouting
D-Scan


No one D-Scans in highsec, its not worth the time. ECM drones dont work, because you'll be dead before you get a lock. Same for friends with ECM or DPS. If you've suicide ganked someone with DPS support on-grid then your an idiot anyway. If you fired at someone who was mining aligned then your also an idiot. Scouting? In high sec? what? If someone tanks you then you didn't bring enough DPS. So basically - "Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong."

Pipa Porto wrote:
Why should I have to provide evidence for your claim?


Why should I have to provide evidence against your claim? The original claim by you being that CCP would want it anonymous.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Pipa Porto
#492 - 2012-10-14 14:02:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Arduemont wrote:
Because you'll get kill rights on you. Don't get me wrong, you can if you like, I'm fine with you doing it, you just have to deal with the repercussions (See what I did there?). What I am basically saying is that catching pods is such an infinitely small part of PvP I don't understand why your whining about that. Basically what I hear is "WWWWHHHHAAAAAA, I DONT WANT TO GET KILLRIGHTS WHEN I SHOOT AT PODS".


And I'm saying that punishing people for catching (not killing) pods in lowsec the same way you punish killing pods is idiotic.

Quote:
My god, cringe worthy. Losing your ship in a suicide gank is not a risk, you account for that when you decide to SUICIDE gank. Also, your comment about it being as hard as the target makes it for you is ridiculous, your in high-sec, you can choose whatever target you like. If your choosing a risky target your suicide ganking wrong.


Losing ISK on buying Dessies is not a RISK. You need to get this right, you should have accounted for that. The only risk your taking is that the gank wont cover the cost. Suicide ganking is not meant to be profitable anyway, not unless your pulling off large and organised freighter or hauler ganks. In which case you use a cargo scanner and you know roughly how much your going to get out of it.


By the same token then, losing your mining ship to a suicide gank is not a risk, as you should have accounted for it when you decided to mine in an untanked Exhumer.

Reread the Soundwave quote. Suicide ganking bare hulls is not meant to be profitable. As it happens, it never was. Only Fit but untanked Exhumers were ever profitable.


Quote:
No one D-Scans in highsec, its not worth the time. ECM drones dont work, because you'll be dead before you get a lock. Same for friends with ECM or DPS. If you've suicide ganked someone with DPS support on-grid then your an idiot anyway. If you fired at someone who was mining aligned then your also an idiot. Scouting? In high sec? what? If someone tanks you then you didn't bring enough DPS. So basically - "Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong."


If your ship isn't worth a button press to notice the incoming fleet of Catalysts in time to escape, that's your choice.
ECM Drones absolutely do work. Set them on aggressive and they will auto aggro Suicide Gankers.
Just about every profitable gank relies on DPS that takes the whole 20s to apply, plenty of time for your Seboed friends to lock them up and destroy/jam them.
If DPS or ECM friends mean nobody makes an attempt on you, MISSION ******* ACCOMPLISHED.
If you tank your ship, you aren't profitable to gank, so you won't get ganked. Want to claim otherwise, find a killmail that shows a brick tanked hulk getting ganked. I have never seen one.
Scouting works. Your choice not do scout your expensive ship/cargo is exactly that, your choice.

Choosing not to use mechanics does not mean you can claim that those mechanics don't exist.

The fact that the targets CHOOSE to make things easy for their attackers, despite months of opportunities to learn isn't relevant to game mechanics discussions.

Quote:
Why should I have to provide evidence against your claim? The original claim by you being that CCP would want it anonymous.

And the DevBlog makes no mention of people being able to learn who placed a bounty on their head. Ergo, per the DevBlog, there will be no way to learn who placed a bounty on your head. You claim something contrary to what the Devblog says, and claim you read it somewhere. I ask you, where did you read it?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto

Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#493 - 2012-10-14 14:05:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
Pipa Porto wrote:
Arduemont wrote:
Because you'll get kill rights on you. Don't get me wrong, you can if you like, I'm fine with you doing it, you just have to deal with the repercussions (See what I did there?). What I am basically saying is that catching pods is such an infinitely small part of PvP I don't understand why your whining about that. Basically what I hear is "WWWWHHHHAAAAAA, I DONT WANT TO GET KILLRIGHTS WHEN I SHOOT AT PODS".


And I'm saying that punishing people for catching (not killing) pods in lowsec the same way you punish killing pods is idiotic.

Quote:
My god, cringe worthy. Losing your ship in a suicide gank is not a risk, you account for that when you decide to SUICIDE gank. Also, your comment about it being as hard as the target makes it for you is ridiculous, your in high-sec, you can choose whatever target you like. If your choosing a risky target your suicide ganking wrong.


Losing ISK on buying Dessies is not a RISK. You need to get this right, you should have accounted for that. The only risk your taking is that the gank wont cover the cost. Suicide ganking is not meant to be profitable anyway, not unless your pulling off large and organised freighter or hauler ganks. In which case you use a cargo scanner and you know roughly how much your going to get out of it.


By the same token then, losing your mining ship to a suicide gank is not a risk, as you should have accounted for it when you decided to mine in an untanked Exhumer.

Reread the Soundwave quote. Suicide ganking bare hulls is not meant to be profitable. As it happens, it never was. Only Fit but untanked Exhumers were ever profitable.


Quote:
No one D-Scans in highsec, its not worth the time. ECM drones dont work, because you'll be dead before you get a lock. Same for friends with ECM or DPS. If you've suicide ganked someone with DPS support on-grid then your an idiot anyway. If you fired at someone who was mining aligned then your also an idiot. Scouting? In high sec? what? If someone tanks you then you didn't bring enough DPS. So basically - "Most of the people suicide ganking arn't attacking people who can fight back, if your doing it this way your doing it wrong."


If your ship isn't worth a button press to notice the incoming fleet of Catalysts in time to escape, that's your choice.
ECM Drones absolutely do work. Set them on aggressive and they will auto aggro Suicide Gankers.
Just about every profitable gank relies on DPS that takes the whole 20s to apply, plenty of time for your Seboed friends to lock them up and destroy/jam them.
If DPS or ECM friends mean nobody makes an attempt on you, MISSION ******* ACCOMPLISHED.
If you tank your ship, you aren't profitable to gank, so you won't get ganked. Want to claim otherwise, find a killmail that shows a brick tanked hulk getting ganked. I have never seen one.
Scouting works. Your choice not do scout your expensive ship/cargo is exactly that, your choice.

Choosing not to use mechanics does not mean you can claim that those mechanics don't exist.

The fact that the targets CHOOSE to make things easy for their attackers, despite months of opportunities to learn isn't relevant to game mechanics discussions.

Quote:
Why should I have to provide evidence against your claim? The original claim by you being that CCP would want it anonymous.

And the DevBlog makes no mention of people being able to learn who placed a bounty on their head. Ergo, per the DevBlog, there will be no way to learn who placed a bounty on your head. You claim something contrary to what the Devblog says, and claim you read it somewhere. I ask you, where did you read it?


They call what your doing, fundamentalism.
You know what? I give up.

Edit: Im so tempted to just correct you, but I know that If I do I will just end up spending all day ranting at you with no possibility of you ever changing you mind. No matter how flawed and circular your arguments, you will never see it.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Alexandrina Intakany
JC Mining And Research
#494 - 2012-10-14 16:34:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexandrina Intakany
My 2 iskies :

has it occured to some ppl that some of eve's player base dont like pvp ? i am one of them !

the onlyway i see bounty working is if its tru agents as missions : taget x is in y system go kill and you get z reward
and like was said if you dont block "alts" from collecting then bouties are moot .

tho i read the crimewatch in progress and i think it will go along well with transferable killrights.

as for killrights transfer : i say you already have killrights on you why do you care ? unless you are a noob ganker ... way to introduce player to eve... (dumb&/"$)


as for putting bouties on anyone : this is where i leave the game once again ... i like pve and that is what highsec is for . so leave me the f*** alone !


as for hulkageddon ,suicide gank,gate camps and the likes: having fun is suposed to be for all players not just one that bashes the others ...

thats all i have to say
Arduemont
Rotten Legion
#495 - 2012-10-14 16:39:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arduemont
I can't take it. There's something wrong with me that I have to correct you, but it irritates me so much that you confidently pump out these ridiculous assertions. A few points that irritated me the most.
Quote:
If your ship isn't worth a button press to notice the incoming fleet of Catalysts in time to escape, that's your choice.

Mining is an activity designed in its nature to be done with little attention. As such it generates a pretty low income but can be done afk. This is called balance, risk vs reward. Either buff their mining yield to to match the nullsec carebears running anomalies or don't complain that they don't need to check D-scan.
Quote:
ECM Drones absolutely do work. Set them on aggressive and they will auto aggro Suicide Gankers.

They will also auto-agro anyone who decides to take from your rat wrecks thereby enabling them to kill you without CONCORD intervention. As such no miner should ever ever ever do this. Ever.
Quote:
Just about every profitable gank relies on DPS that takes the whole 20s to apply, plenty of time for your Seboed friends to lock them up and destroy/jam them.

What in your tiny ridiculous mind thinks every miner in Eve should have a Seboed ally sitting somewhere in space close by just in case GANK ATTACK. What would be the point? It would be a terrible terrible waste of time and potential ISK generation for both people. Do you even understand how this game works? I can't believe you even come up with stupid crap like that. Yea, every 4 man highsec indy corp should have an unpaid Sebo guy on standby 24/7, obviously.
Quote:
Scouting works. Your choice not do scout your expensive ship/cargo is exactly that, your choice.

Scout in highsec? What? Scout for what? Why? I don't get what your trying to say here. Do you even play Eve?
Quote:
And the DevBlog makes no mention of people being able to learn who placed a bounty on their head. Ergo, per the DevBlog, there will be no way to learn who placed a bounty on your head. You claim something contrary to what the Devblog says, and claim you read it somewhere. I ask you, where did you read it?

No, the Dev blog neither mentions knowing, or not knowing. It doesn't say either way ERGO (You ridiculous human being) NO CONCLUSIONS CAN BE DRAWN. You can't just say, there is not enough evidence for your theory, therefore mine is correct. You still didn't put forward any evidence for yours.

"In the age of information, ignorance is a choice." www.stateofwar.co.nf

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#496 - 2012-10-14 16:47:25 UTC
Pipa makes two reasonable points.

1: It is entirely possible to make it difficult to succeed with a suicide gank. The flip side of that is that the suicide ganker needs to be able to see what precautions have been taken and avoid that target in favor of a suitable one.

2: My understanding is that placing a bounty is anonymous as is putting a kill right up for sale, however both stances are up for discussion and could change at any time.

Kill rights have always been awarded to the victim of a suicide gank, the only difference is that now they are awarded for a suicide gank "attempt".

Both situations are fairly irrelevant in the larger scheme of things as the suicide gank character is rarely in space any longer than it takes to grab a ship and warp to the target. It will only be relevant if the person is taking the time to raise that characters sec status to use in other ways, or if he screws up. Yes, it will happen once in a while, but won't be the norm.

In low sec if you are quick enough to grab a pod you can still ransom, you'll just do so with the knowledge that you should avoid high sec for 30 days afterwards unless you are looking for a fight or are willing to pay to pop yourself (assuming the right has a price tag) to shed it.

Pipa, you are over thinking and what if-ing this thing to death.

There are nearly as may ways to turn this against a high sec citizen as there are ways to punish someone for criminal behavior... and that is a good thing. It opens up new careers on both sides of the law, is simpler to understand in practice (especially with the new easily visible Icons incorporated), and allows former victims at least the possibility to exact revenge or compensation even if they are hopeless at PVP themselves.

Yes, there is value in going over ways this system could be exploited by either side.

Yes, there is value in probing for flaws in the system.

But the concept is sound, and with a little fine tuning will be vastly, vastly superior to the joke of a bounty/kill right system we had before... as well as laying the ground work for further steps that will place even more control over the game environment in the hands of the players on both sides of the law.

If we can get mechanics put in place to determine who the anonymous bounty placer / kill rights seller is we will be pretty close to being there.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.

The Prowling Tiger
Doomheim
#497 - 2012-10-17 05:16:23 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

2: My understanding is that placing a bounty is anonymous as is putting a kill right up for sale, however both stances are up for discussion and could change at any time.

My understanding from the dev blog is that you can only purchase the kill right in space, and you have to select the ship that has the killright AGAINST them to do so. That means that, you know, if you see a few combat fit ships floating toward you with a hungry look in their eyes, perhaps something bad will happen? I'm sure pirates are afraid of having to swallow their pride and relocate to avoid certain death, but that IS, afterall what the targets of suicide ganks are required to do each time their 'Many tools to avoid getting suicide ganked' begin beeping.

There are ways to change this in either direction, based on feedback, though the most common I suspect will be pirates crying about getting ganked too often, in which case a simple fix would be to make it possible only to buy the killright from the original holder's ship in space. That way, if he wants the target dead enough, he'll have to do some work tracking it down to ensure that it can't escape when the flag pops up.

I don't envision my second idea being required, however. I always see pvp types advocating 'Situational awareness' if you don't wish to be ganked in highsec, and I see no issues with this rule being applied to THEM as well. In short, vociferous worriers, your answer for 'How do PVPers have the same ability to avoid incoming ganks as miners?' is "Keep an eye out for people dropping on your ass in space, be aligned, treat highsec like lowsec. If you're in space and aren't mining, it should mean that you are AT the keyboard and paying attention, and thus ready to warp out when you see a bunch of little bears warping toward you.

The other issue brought up REPEATEDLY by those who shall remain nameless, was 'I am not able to bring friends to fight against the people with killrights on me.' If you want a fair fight, then perhaps you should wardec someone? You surprised someone, with the intent to take them down with uneven odds, now you're at risk for the EXACT same treatment. To kill people and be able to bring your friends in to defend against revenge, there are plenty of other mechanics in the game to allow just such a thing. I suspect what is really being sought by this question is an option to gank people in highsec, and get large fights without having to put up with station camping and other 'Boring' things, in which case, go join RVB, or TEARS
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#498 - 2012-10-18 20:54:25 UTC
Arduemont wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:


If your ship isn't worth a button press to notice the incoming fleet of Catalysts in time to escape, that's your choice.
ECM Drones absolutely do work. Set them on aggressive and they will auto aggro Suicide Gankers.
Just about every profitable gank relies on DPS that takes the whole 20s to apply, plenty of time for your Seboed friends to lock them up and destroy/jam them.
If DPS or ECM friends mean nobody makes an attempt on you, MISSION ******* ACCOMPLISHED.
If you tank your ship, you aren't profitable to gank, so you won't get ganked. Want to claim otherwise, find a killmail that shows a brick tanked hulk getting ganked. I have never seen one.
Scouting works. Your choice not do scout your expensive ship/cargo is exactly that, your choice.

Choosing not to use mechanics does not mean you can claim that those mechanics don't exist.

The fact that the targets CHOOSE to make things easy for their attackers, despite months of opportunities to learn isn't relevant to game mechanics discussions.

Quote:
Why should I have to provide evidence against your claim? The original claim by you being that CCP would want it anonymous.

And the DevBlog makes no mention of people being able to learn who placed a bounty on their head. Ergo, per the DevBlog, there will be no way to learn who placed a bounty on your head. You claim something contrary to what the Devblog says, and claim you read it somewhere. I ask you, where did you read it?


They call what your doing, fundamentalism.
You know what? I give up.

Edit: Im so tempted to just correct you, but I know that If I do I will just end up spending all day ranting at you with no possibility of you ever changing you mind. No matter how flawed and circular your arguments, you will never see it.


A lot of people feel that way about Pipa. Not because he is right but because its like arguing with a radio, and most of what he says is silly and unrealistic.

LOL@pipa splitting hairs about what the dev said about how ganking shouldn't be profitable in order to fit his own personal indention.

Sorry Pipa, you are still wrong. High sec is high sec for a reason. Try to find a game you don't feel the need to constantly complain about. Obviously you don't understand what EVE is supposed to be.
Alexandrina Intakany
JC Mining And Research
#499 - 2012-10-20 04:04:36 UTC
i would like to know if they will change killrights to being poded regardless of who poded who . if somone attacks me i defently want to be able to reply back . as maybe the his toon is a noob or poorly fited or something so maybe i can kill his ship but if i get poded i still want the kill right . As i write this its not the case . if i so much as spit on the guy i dont get any killrights and that is just plain wrong !
Princess Decimal
Nordic Capsuleers
Tactical Feeding.
#500 - 2012-11-30 23:31:02 UTC
Perhaps Retribution is the start of the end of EVE.

Here's how I interpret the new bounty hunting system:

You place a bounty on someone - anyone - perhaps a guy that accidently bumped you. The same second you've placed your bounty on the pilot, he/she is a valid target for anyone to shoot and kill.

Or lets say you just scanned another pilots ship and you like the contents of his ship. So you place a bounty on him and now you're free to shoot him down and take whatever modules survive.

Or you place a bounty on a corporation or perhaps an alliance - just because you think they have stupid names or come from a certain country. No more wardec. Bounty on and kill for free.

Is this how it's ment to be? Because if this is the case, CCP has just ruined EVE for everyone.

I hope you guys have thought this through.