These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Retribution's New Bounty System

First post First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Allan Orti
Nordic Capsuleers
Tactical Feeding.
#461 - 2012-10-12 12:25:08 UTC
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!
Darth Nupis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#462 - 2012-10-12 22:42:31 UTC
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


Harass them back.
Pipa Porto
#463 - 2012-10-13 01:30:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Darth Nupis wrote:
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


Harass them back.


Except that the bounty system is designed to specifically prohibit that by not allowing you to find out who put a bounty on you.


The problem is that you're guaranteed to get your money's worth. There's no chance for the bounty to be wasted, as it either causes significant economic harm or gets refunded.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#464 - 2012-10-13 07:01:30 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Darth Nupis wrote:
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


Harass them back.


Except that the bounty system is designed to specifically prohibit that by not allowing you to find out who put a bounty on you.


The problem is that you're guaranteed to get your money's worth. There's no chance for the bounty to be wasted, as it either causes significant economic harm or gets refunded.

Well, 80% refunded anyway.

I still agree with you on this one point. There should be a mechanic where, if it actually matters to you, you can find out who placed the bounty on your head.

I still think it should be done through paying a fee to an agent of some sort, and perhaps take some time to get your answer.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#465 - 2012-10-13 07:05:05 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Darth Nupis wrote:
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


Harass them back.


Except that the bounty system is designed to specifically prohibit that by not allowing you to find out who put a bounty on you.


The problem is that you're guaranteed to get your money's worth. There's no chance for the bounty to be wasted, as it either causes significant economic harm or gets refunded.

Well, 80% refunded anyway.

I still agree with you on this one point. There should be a mechanic where, if it actually matters to you, you can find out who placed the bounty on your head.

I still think it should be done through paying a fee to an agent of some sort, and perhaps take some time to get your answer.


Where's this 80% thing coming from?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#466 - 2012-10-13 07:05:36 UTC
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!

You mean like suicide ganking them, or declaring war on them, or bumping them, or smack talking them in local, or can flipping them, or infiltrating their corp with an alt and killing them (or stealing all of their stuff and THEN killing them), or any one of a dozen other things that can be done currently to "harass" a player? Most of which don't cost you an ISK to do either.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#467 - 2012-10-13 07:07:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Darth Nupis wrote:
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


Harass them back.


Except that the bounty system is designed to specifically prohibit that by not allowing you to find out who put a bounty on you.


The problem is that you're guaranteed to get your money's worth. There's no chance for the bounty to be wasted, as it either causes significant economic harm or gets refunded.

Well, 80% refunded anyway.

I still agree with you on this one point. There should be a mechanic where, if it actually matters to you, you can find out who placed the bounty on your head.

I still think it should be done through paying a fee to an agent of some sort, and perhaps take some time to get your answer.


Where's this 80% thing coming from?


In the reams of dev responses on this there was a discussion about if there are multiple bounties on someone, how is that refunded if eventually necessary. The dev response referred to an 80% refund of what was left of the bounty and how that would be divvied out to the various parties.

Edit: Subject to change and tweaking obviously at this point.

Additional edit: Don't take that as quite 100% gospel. I always strive to be as accurate as possible, but frankly it's been a long day and involved reading a lot of repetitive material.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Nyla Skin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#468 - 2012-10-13 10:07:20 UTC
Allan Orti wrote:
This new bounty systems makes me quite nervous, since it can and definately WILL be made to harass other players!


It doesnt give any tools to harassing, only incentives.

In after the lock :P   - CCP Falcon www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies
Pipa Porto
#469 - 2012-10-14 05:01:36 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
In the reams of dev responses on this there was a discussion about if there are multiple bounties on someone, how is that refunded if eventually necessary. The dev response referred to an 80% refund of what was left of the bounty and how that would be divvied out to the various parties.

Edit: Subject to change and tweaking obviously at this point.

Additional edit: Don't take that as quite 100% gospel. I always strive to be as accurate as possible, but frankly it's been a long day and involved reading a lot of repetitive material.


Thanks.

Your money's worth (well, 5 times it) or 80% of it back is roughly equally risk free. And the way CCP is going with these things, I see no reason to expect that there will be any way to discover who put a bounty on you.

Just like there's no risk in being a killright hunter with the new, ridiculous, killright system.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#470 - 2012-10-14 05:08:11 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
In the reams of dev responses on this there was a discussion about if there are multiple bounties on someone, how is that refunded if eventually necessary. The dev response referred to an 80% refund of what was left of the bounty and how that would be divvied out to the various parties.

Edit: Subject to change and tweaking obviously at this point.

Additional edit: Don't take that as quite 100% gospel. I always strive to be as accurate as possible, but frankly it's been a long day and involved reading a lot of repetitive material.


Thanks.

Your money's worth (well, 5 times it) or 80% of it back is roughly equally risk free. And the way CCP is going with these things, I see no reason to expect that there will be any way to discover who put a bounty on you.

Just like there's no risk in being a killright hunter with the new, ridiculous, killright system.

Well, other than being killed of course... they can always fire back, or use logistics, or a remote booster....

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#471 - 2012-10-14 05:17:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Ranger 1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
In the reams of dev responses on this there was a discussion about if there are multiple bounties on someone, how is that refunded if eventually necessary. The dev response referred to an 80% refund of what was left of the bounty and how that would be divvied out to the various parties.

Edit: Subject to change and tweaking obviously at this point.

Additional edit: Don't take that as quite 100% gospel. I always strive to be as accurate as possible, but frankly it's been a long day and involved reading a lot of repetitive material.


Thanks.

Your money's worth (well, 5 times it) or 80% of it back is roughly equally risk free. And the way CCP is going with these things, I see no reason to expect that there will be any way to discover who put a bounty on you.

Just like there's no risk in being a killright hunter with the new, ridiculous, killright system.

Well, other than being killed of course... they can always fire back, or use logistics, or a remote booster....


Firing back at the CONCORD protected Corpmate Logi sounds effective.
Putting more suspects on the field in expensive ships sounds wise.

Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#472 - 2012-10-14 05:22:31 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#473 - 2012-10-14 05:30:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
In the reams of dev responses on this there was a discussion about if there are multiple bounties on someone, how is that refunded if eventually necessary. The dev response referred to an 80% refund of what was left of the bounty and how that would be divvied out to the various parties.

Edit: Subject to change and tweaking obviously at this point.

Additional edit: Don't take that as quite 100% gospel. I always strive to be as accurate as possible, but frankly it's been a long day and involved reading a lot of repetitive material.


Thanks.

Your money's worth (well, 5 times it) or 80% of it back is roughly equally risk free. And the way CCP is going with these things, I see no reason to expect that there will be any way to discover who put a bounty on you.

Just like there's no risk in being a killright hunter with the new, ridiculous, killright system.

Well, other than being killed of course... they can always fire back, or use logistics, or a remote booster....


Firing back at the CONCORD protected Corpmate Logi sounds effective.
Putting more suspects on the field in expensive ships sounds wise.

Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.


Eh?
I said the person with the kill right on their head can have logistics help him, or a remote booster, in addition to simply shooting you when you attack him after activating your kill right. Of course you can then shoot at his logistics, but that's a decision he'll have to make.

Under no circumstances would a logistics be protected by Concord if he is repping someone that is engaged in combat. Even if you are activating a kill right, when you fire you get a PVP flag which is inherited by the logistics pilot.

I think you are underestimating just how many people will use the fact that they have a kill right for sale on them to lure people into combat.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#474 - 2012-10-14 05:34:35 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.


Except that unless the person selling the kill right is a compete idiot you'll pay them for the privilege of shedding that kill right.

Also, and I may very well have missed this, but I don't recall self destructing being discussed as a method to end a kill right. I could very well have missed it though.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Pipa Porto
#475 - 2012-10-14 05:48:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Eh?
I said the person with the kill right on their head can have logistics help him, or a remote booster, in addition to simply shooting you when you attack him after activating your kill right. Of course you can then shoot at his logistics, but that's a decision he'll have to make.


And since you have access to escalate with literally everyone else in the system and there aren't any particularly effective traps you can make via fleeting, they have no reason not to poke by for a looksee.

Quote:
Under no circumstances would a logistics be protected by Concord if he is repping someone that is engaged in combat. Even if you are activating a kill right, when you fire you get a PVP flag which is inherited by the logistics pilot.

I think you are underestimating just how many people will use the fact that they have a kill right for sale on them to lure people into combat.


CCP Masterplan wrote:
Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec


Weapon/PvP/Suspect/Criminal.

Yes, you get a PvP flag. That means your logoff timer is 15m. It does not allow anyone to shoot you. Whatever unnamed individual flag (I thought CW 2.0 was supposed to get rid of these) being in an LE gives you is not transferable due to CCP's terror of mapping aggression.


Yes, System v 1 combat (with true, CONCORD protected, Neutral RR) sounds so interesting. I don't know why everyone won't be doing it.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#476 - 2012-10-14 05:49:03 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.


Except that unless the person selling the kill right is a compete idiot you'll pay them for the privilege of shedding that kill right.

Also, and I may very well have missed this, but I don't recall self destructing being discussed as a method to end a kill right. I could very well have missed it though.
Someone else will pay to activate the kill right. You just get to shed it on their dime.

I would suspect that CCP will plug any self-destructing holes ... but as the devblog states, your ship only has to be destroyed during the activation period. I take that to include self destruction, since it does now generate a kill mail.
Pipa Porto
#477 - 2012-10-14 05:50:04 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.


Sounds like a foolproof plan.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#478 - 2012-10-14 05:53:42 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.
Sounds like a foolproof plan.
Not a lot of Heavy Interdictors whipping about in highsec.
Pipa Porto
#479 - 2012-10-14 06:27:08 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Meanwhile the killright hunter has unlimited, trap-proof, potential for public escalation. Oh, and the Game mechanically guaranteed element of surprise. If you can't win every single time under those circumstances, you should be ashamed.
It'll be pretty easy to shed the kill right.

There are so many different methods ... but as an example ... fly out near a gate in something enticing. Warp stab the hell out of it. Align to a safe. Wait for some joker to activate the kill right. Warp away. Go dock, get into some cheap frigate or rookie ship. Fly back out, either let someone pop you (an alt or a corpmate) or self-destruct. Voila! Kill right no more.

Kill rights are already a broken/borked mechanic.
Sounds like a foolproof plan.
Not a lot of Heavy Interdictors whipping about in highsec.


Yet.

Not a lot of Suspect flagged people whipping about in HS.
Not a lot of Multi-Stabbed shineys whipping about in HS trying to clear their killrights.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#480 - 2012-10-14 06:30:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Pipa Porto wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Eh?
I said the person with the kill right on their head can have logistics help him, or a remote booster, in addition to simply shooting you when you attack him after activating your kill right. Of course you can then shoot at his logistics, but that's a decision he'll have to make.


And since you have access to escalate with literally everyone else in the system and there aren't any particularly effective traps you can make via fleeting, they have no reason not to poke by for a looksee.

Quote:
Under no circumstances would a logistics be protected by Concord if he is repping someone that is engaged in combat. Even if you are activating a kill right, when you fire you get a PVP flag which is inherited by the logistics pilot.

I think you are underestimating just how many people will use the fact that they have a kill right for sale on them to lure people into combat.


CCP Masterplan wrote:
Assisting your own corp mates* in a Limited Engagement is always legally allowed (it won't be punished per se, but you'll still inherit any W/P/S/C flags they have)

But this is still something we're discussing
* Excluding NPC corps, and assisting Outlaws in high-sec


Weapon/PvP/Suspect/Criminal.

Yes, you get a PvP flag. That means your logoff timer is 15m. It does not allow anyone to shoot you. Whatever unnamed individual flag (I thought CW 2.0 was supposed to get rid of these) being in an LE gives you is not transferable due to CCP's terror of mapping aggression.


Yes, System v 1 combat (with true, CONCORD protected, Neutral RR) sounds so interesting. I don't know why everyone won't be doing it.


I believe that repping your corp mate does make the logistics part of the limited engagement.

I could be incorrect on that (and am too tired at the moment to recheck the Dev Blog)... if so my apologies.

Still, that in no way keeps the person with the kill right from having their own logistics... if they are willing to risk it. In most of high sec, considering the unpreparedness for actual PVP combat, that actually isn't that big a risk if they are prepared.

Lets be realistic about this, the vast majority of traffic in your average high sec system is either haulers or mission fit ships... and mission fit ships are in no way capable of providing a challenge to someone looking for trouble. They might be able to out tank him (depending on the ship) but they won't even be able to hold him let alone kill him.

Someone looking to lure people into giving him a go really only have to worry about running into a group that is engaged in an active war (something I am assured NEVER happens anymore Big smileBig smileBig smile) or a bounty hunter/RvB/FW / or suicide gank group set up to snag and bag someone.

His prey will be the person that notices the kill right and reflexively goes after it thinking "I just did Angel Extravaganza in this ship, surely I can handle this lone Dominix"... and he'll keep milking the kill right until someone finally gets him. He'll know this is likely to happen eventually, but he'll get plenty of entertainment out of it and with skilled hauler buddy in the area he may very well make money off the loot.

You can keep telling yourself that it won't happen, but if I end up with a kill right on one of my characters this will be the route I'll take. Most any combat oriented pilot (RvB pilots come to mind) will do the same.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.