Intergalactic Summit

Freedom is not a place, why would it be on a map?
Yes, Freedom is a concept, much like the concept of family, home, or the social and economic contracts required to make a workplace.

It is the concept that everyone, whoever and wherever they may be, is born with the inaliable right to freedom. The hereditary enslavement of any child, is in direct opposition the one of the very founding principles of the Federation, More it is horrific, and, even blasphemous.... Childbirth is often referred to as a miracle. Therefore, by definition, the birth of a new soul is an act of god. yet the amarrians take it upon themselves to punish children born of certain, primarily non-amarrian, heriatages for the simple fact that they were born.

I can understand why a supporter of the Cartel would argue that slavery is good and freedom is not a right... i get that profit is not something you'd want to cut into.

but really. if you intend to argue this particular point, you need to find a more feasible response than the one you have used here.

Yes, freedoms are enforced by law in 3/4 of the empires. arguing that the amarrians are right because in their empire such freedoms are institutionally removed by force is a weak platform to base such a response on, at best.

I'm sure you mean well, even though you come over as a pompous, conceited, over-priviliged, clueless ass. I'll try to answer your points as you raised them (even though you were so verbose I can't do so in a single post) and I'll try to limit the sarcasm and offensive tone.

1. The 'rights' you have listed are privileges and not rights at all. Nowhere in this cluster are they universal nor as far reaching as you seem to suggest - not even in the Federation. Would I deny a child these things? I wouldn't, of course. I don't deny my staff these things, in fact I am paying to raise the child of one of them at my own expense, and that child will enjoy all those things - but they are not his right and his mother would not be able to provide them on her own.

2. Are you serious? I still remember Saede Riordan's tales about the starvation riots on Skarkon. I know for a fact that there are children starving to death in refugee camps in the Republic as we have this discussion. I certainly wouldn't have been permitted to waste good protein due to some faddy diet fashion. Physically restraining a child and forcing it to eat? How out of control ARE children in the Federation?
You're just starting to make yourself look ridiculous now, claiming that a child has the legal right to determine its own diet when most of the major societies cannot even guarantee a meal for each child every day!

3. Clothes are provided. Children wear them. Not every child has an 'allowance' they can take to 'the mall' to pursue whatever fashion is deemed socially expedient. I would counter that very few children, indeed, have that ability. My household was very traditional, as many households are. There was, indeed, a dress code at home.

4. Anything above a very basic education is far from a right. Certainly the levels of education you term Secondary and Tertiary education are provided on the basis of a child's performance or, more likely, the parent's ability to pay. Some societies provide a public fund for a gifted child to recieve an education their parents cannot provide for them, some companies have merit based education programs in return for a term of service - but these are provided as part of an exchange of some kind and not as a basic right.

your argument bounces between extremes so often I'm having trouble believing you're not affected by capsuleer dementia.

The list of rights i stated are rights. set down in the bill of children's rights, and upheld as law throughout the federation.
if your parents did not follow a simillar set of rules, then that does not invalidate my point, it does however, mean your childhood was perhaps less of a childhood than it should have been.

you talk about Saede Riordan's claims of events in an ANGEL CARTEL controlled system, not in the republic. Do a little research.
You also purposefully misconstrue my question regarding physical restraint. I did not state, at all, that it is something that is ever done in Federation society. I merely asked if you condoned such actions, as you seemed adamant that a child should eat exactly what it is told, and be unable to show any level of individual thought or freedom.

you'd be surprised, while perhaps in your culture it is a failing that children do not have the ability to learn value and responsibility by being granted a monetary allowance, In my time with the Caldari, Matari and Federate peoples, i have seem a vast number of those who do. or who, at least, have the ability to personalise their clothing.
It begins to sound like your parents treated your childhood like a term of military service.

Primary and secondary, as you have termed them, educations are provided by the state within the Federation. If this is not the case in the khanid kingdom, then frankly, your system of education is lacking.

you once again misconstrue my meaning, this is either purposeful, or some form of defect on your part.
If you had been around children for your entire pre-capsuleer life, you would realise that until a certain age, (3-5) children nap quite often, and rarely sleep until they are tired enough, as time goes on they may go to their room and lie down 'when ordered to' but once again, they will rarely sleep unless they are tired enough to do so.

children are neglected sold and moved forcibly all the time? if this happens within the khanid kingdom then there are serious sociological problems that we have barely begun to scratch the surface of here. You should perhaps look into that.

While financially, you may be correct, in almost every other sense, should both of those children have performed well within their education, they have very simillar skillsets and knowledge. That is as equal a start as any could expect. You are picking at the smallest problems to attempt to damage my statements, and it is honestly sounding like you barely believe your own words.

yes. i focused on your claim that childhood is like slavery in that final point. that is because, the final point you made, after describing what sounded like a terrible and abusive childhood, was to state that it was the very definition of slavery.
you made the point. I argued against it.
what about this don't you understand?

you know nothing of my personal childhood, and i have at no point referenced my own childhood here. I would suggest that making such assumptions is likely to make you look even worse.
As i stated at the beginning of this post. Those things you mitakenly call privileges, are rights that are protected by law.
Do i live in ignorance of the living conditions in the 'rest of the cluster'? no. I understand fully that there are places where these basic rights are either witheld or unable to be provided. in places where they are incapable of providing such care, I, and many other capsuleers, provide aid and help. In those places where they are witheld, your kind are in power, and i pity those children.

as for a 'lack of stucture, discipline, responsibility [sic] or actual involvement' .... once again you assume too much.
The lives of children in the Federation have structure, school, homework, chores, free time etc all in a set pattern, as for discipline and responsibility, learn how to read. I went over these points in an earlier post.

Finally, actual involvement? while those parents I personally know in the federation are not draconian overlords, demanding that their children follow a military style regieme that makes demands on every aspect of their lives and is apparently designed to destroy their individuality, that does not mean they do not take an active role in their upbringing.
In fact, it is the Caldari and Amarrian peoples who make use of creche facilities and 'nannies' the most.

Before you start throwing stones, ms mai, make sure you are outside your glass house. you happen to have put some holes in it recently.

See, up until the comment about Capsuleer Dementia, I thought you were simply misguided but now I'm convinced you're simply having fun at my expense.

I should have known when you claimed that not having the ability to determine their own menu was an infringment of a child's civil liberties. I REALLY should have known when you claimed that having a set bedtime and not being allowed to blow an extravagant allowance on clothes of their own choice was equally a breach of inalienable rights - when we both know that no such thing exist throughout the cluster.

But go on. Really. Make the sweeping assumption that the priviliges that pertain to an affluent childhood on a core world in the Gallente Federation are concrete rights that children in mining colonies, agricultural worlds and refugee camps throughout the cluster enjoy as a matter of basis.

I probably just don't understand because I was so horribly abused as a child.