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In defense of Pay-to-Win

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#61 - 2011-10-04 06:25:02 UTC
Socrata wrote:
I have disputed both of these claims with arguments which have not been squarely addressed.
No, they've been addressed — you've just not really provided much of a counter-argument.
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As I said, my argument is on principle, and is not concerned with possible existential side-effects.
…which makes it a worthless argument since the side-effects are pretty darn important.
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Again: no significant time or effort is put into training skill points.
Still inherently false due to the fact that they have to wait for those SP to accumulate.
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At any rate, the time and effort put into training skills by this method would not be significantly greater than that put in by a person buying the skill points directly
…except that buying the skill points would require zero time, as opposed to how they are normally earned.
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The idea that players are "earning" skill points by setting their skills and then waiting on them to finish is illusory.
No, it is actually very real, because that is how you really earn them: by expending time. You want to remove and/or completely devalue that expense, which is a bad thing because that touches the single most valuable thing you have in this game: time.

Until you realise that you cannot brush of time as not having any value, your arguments are inherently flawed, inherently false, and completely ignorant of the reality of the game.
Zyress
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#62 - 2011-10-10 21:18:23 UTC
Socrata wrote:
First, many continue to beg the question against my original argument by assuming that training skills takes work, or that the current system of training skills is "earning" them in some sense greater than the hypothetical player paying for the skill points outright. I have disputed both of these claims with arguments which have not been squarely addressed.

Another common point is the "nanny state" argument that newbies won't have fun unless they play the game the same way as those individuals who trained their skills through the existing system. This may or may not be true, but fails to address my own arguments in any event. As I said, my argument is on principle, and is not concerned with possible existential side-effects. It may be the case that P2W will lead to massive rage-quitting newbies who otherwise would have stuck with the game had they played the game the traditional way (although I find this claim --- and others like it --- extremely dubious), but my argument as presented is not concerned with such possibilities.

Again: no significant time or effort is put into training skill points. You simply set your skill (which takes a few seconds) and that's all the effort required. At any rate, the time and effort put into training skills by this method would not be significantly greater than that put in by a person buying the skill points directly; he or she would presumably still have to spend time clicking the skills, for instance, which would probably take about the same amount of total time.

The idea that players are "earning" skill points by setting their skills and then waiting on them to finish is illusory; if any action truly "earned" these skill points for the player, it was the monetary transaction involved (e.g. the subscription fee).


You must be a 14 year old if you can so totally discount time as an investment in the skill points. It takes next to no time to set up your skill queue, but thats not the time we are talking about, we are talking about the time needed to accumulate the skillpoints, not to set up the skill queue. Buying skillpoints circumvents that time requirement. Older more experienced players should be more versatile and better trained than younger less experienced players, time on the skill queue is what separates us as it should. You want to be a better trained more powerful pilot, put in the time.