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Lowsec incursions break the constellation they're in

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The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#1 - 2012-09-27 22:16:53 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bazzalisk
Scrambling rats lock so quickly and are so tough on gates that unless you are in a fleet or a cloaky ship, you're guaranteed to die. Good job at making the game unplayable for low sec players if there is an incursion in your constellation without being in a fleet with logis and tackle.
Jim Era
#2 - 2012-09-27 22:17:56 UTC
Yea, sometimes you can't just do whatever the **** you feel like and have everyone give you the green light... you actually have to earn it.

Wat™
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#3 - 2012-09-27 22:19:25 UTC
The main problem is that they didn't do the same with all incursions.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#4 - 2012-09-27 22:20:25 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bazzalisk
Jim Era wrote:
Yea, sometimes you can't just do whatever the **** you feel like and have everyone give you the green light... you actually have to earn it.
Lol @ 'earning it'. Earning the right to move system? That's a new one. If you aren't a) in a cloaky ship or b) in a fleet with logis and webs, you die. Wow, that definitely sounds like 'earning' the right to move system.

Not in a fleet? Not in a cloaky ship? Go **** yourself, you're not getting through. That's some sweet game mechanics. Incursions should be optional, not forced. Incursions in my constellation should be challenging but an incentive to keep playing for the rewards that you get, a rare opportunity to get some ISK and LP from an incursion on my doorstep. Not an incentive to unsub until my alliance tells me it's gone - because it kills the game for me until it's over.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#5 - 2012-09-27 22:20:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Scrambling gatecampers lock so quickly on gates that unless you are in a fleet or a cloaky ship, you're guaranteed to die. Good job at making the game unplayable for players trying to enter lowsec without being in a fleet with logis and tackle.


FTFY, welcome to a world where NPC's are nearly as bad at being arsehats as the players. Things aren't so shiny when someone else is laying the boot in are they?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#6 - 2012-09-27 22:20:51 UTC
They do make travel interesting and can tackle you at times, but I haven't managed to die to them yet. Maybe you're just better at dying then me. P
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#7 - 2012-09-27 22:28:11 UTC
Posting in mad thread. OP doesn't think a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation should feel like a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation.

Tippia wrote:
The main problem is that they didn't do the same with all incursions.


+1

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#8 - 2012-09-27 22:30:43 UTC  |  Edited by: The Bazzalisk
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Posting in mad thread. OP doesn't think a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation should feel like a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation.
If it means breaking the game to the extent that you can't move system unless you are cloaky or in a fleet, then yes, you're right. I think it should have the damage penalties, the tank penalties, the sites should require co-ordinated fleets, etc. but I think limiting players movement to the extent that they can't leave their home system unless they are one of two things is not good game design, it's something ******** being rammed down my throat that stops me from playing the game until it's done.

I know who Sansha is but I don't care. Story time is nice and all but I play for the gameplay, not the 'wait until this is over so you can actually move around again'. That's not fun. Tough sites are fun. PvP is fun. Getting caught on a gate by rats you can't shake off because of their speed or kill because of their tank meaning you are guaranteed to die is not fun. Removing the PvP and free movement of low sec is not fun.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-09-27 22:37:59 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
If it means breaking the game to the extent that you can't move system unless you are cloaky or in a fleet, then yes, you're right.
Good thing, then, that it doesn't break the game.

It just gives you a disincentive to visit a particular constellation (or an incentive to do so, if you're of that mind). Creating dynamics in the availability of space does not break the game, especially not since it's so easy to plan for and circumvent.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#10 - 2012-09-27 22:39:28 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Petrus Blackshell wrote:
Posting in mad thread. OP doesn't think a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation should feel like a Sansha invasion and lockdown of a constellation.
If it means breaking the game to the extent that you can't move system unless you are cloaky or in a fleet, then yes, you're right. I think it should have the damage penalties, the risk penalties, the sites should require fleets, et. but I think limiting players movement to the extent that they can't leave their home system unless they are one of two things is not good game design, it's something ******** being rammed down my throat that stops me from playing the game until it's done.

I know who Sansha is but I don't care. Story time is nice and all but I play for the gameplay, not the 'wait until this is over so you can actually move around again'. That's not fun. Tough sites are fun. PvP is fun. Getting caught on a gate by rats you can't shake off because of their speed or kill because of their tank meaning you are guaranteed to die is not fun. Removing the PvP and free movement of low sec is not fun.

I know what lowsec incursions are like, and have even lost a ship to one due to brainless piloting (oops).

Treat the incursion rats as if they were player ships. Fly a frigate or cruiser, or fly your pod. Sansha very rarely catch frigates, cruisers can tank it and are fast enough to jump back through, and NPCs do not fire on pods. Alternatively, MWD/cloak your ship. Another solution: get some friends and fight the incursion.

Seriously, whining about incursion rats "breaking" your constellation is as bad as whining about the Heretics camping Amamake, or smartbomb camps on the way to Jita. Or, if you want NPC-related whine examples of equal badditude: whining about rat DPS not allowing easy solo mining in nullsec or gravimetric sites, Ewar rats shutting you down in a mission, etc.

All of these problems have very simple solutions, and I doubt the forum community will sympathize much with you on this.

(BTW, PvP in incursion areas is great, if you can find targets)

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
dethleffs
Immortalis Inc.
Shadow Cartel
#11 - 2012-09-27 22:39:51 UTC
so you have this giant bar saying you cant do certain things in this constellation and this eerie green glow araound everything and you fail to make precautions?
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#12 - 2012-09-27 22:41:09 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Bazzalisk wrote:
If it means breaking the game to the extent that you can't move system unless you are cloaky or in a fleet, then yes, you're right.
Good thing, then, that it doesn't break the game.

It just gives you a disincentive to visit a particular constellation (or an incentive to do so, if you're of that mind). Creating dynamics in the availability of space does not break the game, especially not since it's so easy to plan for and circumvent.
Yes, the random movement of constellations is so easy to plan for. That 'disincentive to visit' a particular constellation sounds great, until you live there and all your ships are there and you can't play until it's gone. Sure, that's fun, but by the same measure, so is smashing my skull against a block of concrete.
Implying Implications
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2012-09-27 22:42:05 UTC
WARP CORE STABALISER

hello
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#14 - 2012-09-27 22:42:59 UTC
dethleffs wrote:
so you have this giant bar saying you cant do certain things in this constellation and this eerie green glow araound everything and you fail to make precautions?
Yeah, precautions such as what when you live in the incursion constellation? Oh sure - I'll just move all my ships out of my home system for the next week or so - through the incursion gate camps - and then I'll move them back when it's over. Don't be stupid. You can't 'make precautions' for random incursion movement which stops you from moving your assets out when it does happen.
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#15 - 2012-09-27 22:43:36 UTC
Implying Implications wrote:
WARP CORE STABALISER
And totally gimp everything else on my ship? Great plan.

Also I was told that warp core stabs have no effect on incursion rats. Not sure how true that is, though.
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#16 - 2012-09-27 22:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Petrus Blackshell
Implying Implications wrote:
WARP CORE STABALISER

Shh, OP has already implied he's uninterested in practical solutions by refusing to use a cloak. He has also offered NPCs the ultimate resignation and sign of shame: whining on the forums about it. Ed: On General Discussion, even. Wow.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
The Bazzalisk
One Risky Click
Snuffed Out
#17 - 2012-09-27 22:45:35 UTC
Triple post.

I would love to get a 40 man fleet together and go and get the incursion out by force. But it's in low sec, so anyone with half a neuron can see that we're completing the incursion from their journal and come and stop us. GLHF sneaking a 40 man fleet around through Okkamon to complete the incursion with the final sites. Let me know how that goes for you.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-09-27 22:49:02 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
If it means breaking the game to the extent that you can't move system unless you are cloaky or in a fleet, then yes, you're right. I think it should have the damage penalties, the tank penalties, the sites should require co-ordinated fleets, etc. but I think limiting players movement to the extent that they can't leave their home system unless they are one of two things is not good game design, it's something ******** being rammed down my throat that stops me from playing the game until it's done.


The game making you think isn't breaking the game, it's encouraging you to break out of the habit of thinking the same thing will work every time.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#19 - 2012-09-27 22:49:44 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Yes, the random movement of constellations is so easy to plan for.
Yup. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. If you need a constellation to go somewhere, plan alternate routes. Oh, and since it's not entirely random — some constellations are on the list and others are not — if you keep getting hit, pick a different home if it bothers you that much.

Quote:
That 'disincentive to visit' a particular constellation sounds great, until you live there and all your ships are there and you can't play until it's gone.
If you live there, then the disincentive is that much greater, and you get to earn a buck while doing it. Also, if you live there, you should have all the resources and tools at your immediate disposal to get rid of them, or to bypass them, not to mention that you should have plenty of know-how since they can be handled much like any (less competent) player… and you do plan for those in your little lowsec pocket, I hope…?
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
#20 - 2012-09-27 22:50:38 UTC
The Bazzalisk wrote:
Triple post.

I would love to get a 40 man fleet together and go and get the incursion out by force. But it's in low sec, so anyone with half a neuron can see that we're completing the incursion from their journal and come and stop us. GLHF sneaking a 40 man fleet around through Okkamon to complete the incursion with the final sites. Let me know how that goes for you.

So... you were complaining about incursions ruining PvP, and here you are complaining that they bring PvP to you. I'm not sure what to believe anymore.

Accidentally The Whole Frigate - For-newbies blog (currently on pause)
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