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Why are T2 missiles so easy to skill into?
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Miss Le NerfSxBye
State War Academy
Caldari State
#41 - 2012-09-27 19:15:49 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
What I want to know is if I should train T2 torps (torp to V is a no-brainer, should I specialize?) for SBs and, if I do, what else are they good for?

POS Bashing with a range rigged Raven and you would probably use T1 torpedoes for that. Only PVE ship they are really viable on is the Golem because of the target painter bonus. Ex CEO discouraged T2 Torps on Bombers meta4 was preferred because of fitting and the current penalties for T2 ammo.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#42 - 2012-09-27 19:21:20 UTC
Miss Le NerfSxBye wrote:
POS Bashing with a range rigged Raven and you would probably use T1 torpedoes for that. Only PVE ship they are really viable on is the Golem because of the target painter bonus. Ex CEO discouraged T2 Torps on Bombers meta4 was preferred because of fitting and the current penalties for T2 ammo.

Makes sense, thanks.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Smiknight
Smiknight Corporation
#43 - 2012-09-27 19:33:11 UTC
Good troll. 6/10.
A reward devoid of risk is no reward at all, but is instead a handout.
Tarvos Telesto
Blood Fanatics
#44 - 2012-09-27 20:17:32 UTC
My ex alt got +15mil sp in missile, i spent a lot time to get perfect support missile skills at lvl 5 + specialisations at lvl 5 like torpedos, ham, heavy, light, rocket etc, it was not so easy and fast like OP said or suggest, sadly i cant aford multple character longer, so i sold him in character bazar.

Fly safe Cloned s0ul o7 ;)

This game is about specialisation and maximize efficienty, realy here no big difirence betwen guns... while we talk about sp amount.



EvE isn't game, its style of living.
Doc Severide
Doomheim
#45 - 2012-09-27 20:27:32 UTC
Whatta dumb thread....

But Tippia wins...
Ensign X
#46 - 2012-09-27 20:33:46 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
What I want to know is if I should train T2 torps (torp to V is a no-brainer, should I specialize?) for SBs and, if I do, what else are they good for?


T2 Javelins are beast for shooting small targets. Rage is pretty awful for anything Battlecruiser size and below. Beyond that, T2 Torps are basically useless unless one day you decide to fly a Golem.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#47 - 2012-09-27 21:07:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Andski
Training cruise missiles when you can already use T2 torps requires you to train Cruise Missiles V and Cruise Missile Specialization. By contrast, if you have T2 large rails trained and want to use T2 large blasters, you only need to train the specialization skill rather than "Blasters V" for example.

This is the same with every other missile type - you have to train specifically for those variants in order to use them.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#48 - 2012-09-27 23:48:30 UTC
Andski wrote:
Training cruise missiles when you can already use T2 torps requires you to train Cruise Missiles V and Cruise Missile Specialization. By contrast, if you have T2 large rails trained and want to use T2 large blasters, you only need to train the specialization skill rather than "Blasters V" for example.

This is the same with every other missile type - you have to train specifically for those variants in order to use them.


But if you don't already have have all the lower size specialities, you can't. (small and medium blaster specialization, + their requirements)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#49 - 2012-09-27 23:53:18 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
But if you don't already have have all the lower size specialities, you can't. (small and medium blaster specialization, + their requirements)
…which equates to 8 ranks to IV (360k:ish SP) and a rank-2 skill to V (which takes care of the prereqs for the previous levels of specialisation as well) for another 512k SP… but you'll want that skill anyway so it's not really much in the way of “extra” training (and if you ever go for a second turret type, you're already set for all tiers).

The additional time required is pretty minimal.
Skydell
Bad Girl Posse
#50 - 2012-09-28 02:40:27 UTC
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
My ex alt got +15mil sp in missile, i spent a lot time to get perfect support missile skills at lvl 5 + specialisations at lvl 5 like torpedos, ham, heavy, light, rocket etc, it was not so easy and fast like OP said or suggest, sadly i cant aford multple character longer, so i sold him in character bazar.

Fly safe Cloned s0ul o7 ;)

This game is about specialisation and maximize efficienty, realy here no big difirence betwen guns... while we talk about sp amount.





In addition while you train out your 15 mill SP in Missiles you get no support from Meta.
Where a new player with hybrid or Projectile fit player can get meta 4 bonus to tracking, damage multipliers and refire, you get refire from a meta 4 HM or Cruise launcher.

I trained Missiles last, having trained all the gunnery it won't impact me as much but it still leaves a bitter taste seeing CCP clubbing the ever loving shite out of Missile boats again, for the third time now.
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#51 - 2012-09-28 09:39:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mars Theran
Tippia wrote:
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
No-ooo, that's not entirely true. You have to branch for both blasters and railguns - two different sets of specialisations.
No, it's entirely accurate.
If you train Hybrid Weapons, you get blasters and rails; if you train HMLs you don't get HAMs. For turrets, you get both range categories, and specialisations are just branches on the same tree (not to mention that the support skills to specialise are shared for all turrets); for missiles, they're completely separate paths, and the specialisations are not shared — they just extend that one trunk they're on.

Quote:
The skills for the Torpedo Launcher II will get you Rage Torpedoes and Javelin Torpedoes.
No.

Torp Launcher II:
Missile Launcher Operation IV
Torpedo Specialization I
    Torpedoes V
        Heavy Missiles III
            Standard Missiles III

Javelin Torpedo:
Torpedo Specialization I
    Torpedoes V
        Heavy Missiles III
            Standard Missiles III
Torpedoes V
    […]
Missile Launcher Operation V

There are two crucial differences: one is that you have to have MLO at V to use the ammo; you don't need it for the launcher. The other is that you don't need Torp V to use launcher (just to train for it), but you do need it for the missiles. Should you ever lose Torp V (which is a reasonably high probability since it's a medium-rank skills with 1M SP poured into it — a good candidate for SP loss), you can keep using the launchers since it's not an actual prereq for using them — you only need the Torp Spec skill. However, losing Torp V means you are now barred from using the Javelins since it is a prereq for them.

So the launcher is easier to train for an immensely easier to retain if you ever lose SP. You have to spend additional time training for the ammo and need to protect it more than you do the luncher skills. This is the exact opposite situation than for turrets, where the turret itself requires far more training than the ammo, and being able to use the turret means you can always use the ammo as well.


I think you're just nit-picking here. What?
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
Mars Theran
Foreign Interloper
#52 - 2012-09-28 09:41:57 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Tarvos Telesto wrote:
My ex alt got +15mil sp in missile, i spent a lot time to get perfect support missile skills at lvl 5 + specialisations at lvl 5 like torpedos, ham, heavy, light, rocket etc, it was not so easy and fast like OP said or suggest, sadly i cant aford multple character longer, so i sold him in character bazar.

Fly safe Cloned s0ul o7 ;)

This game is about specialisation and maximize efficienty, realy here no big difirence betwen guns... while we talk about sp amount.





In addition while you train out your 15 mill SP in Missiles you get no support from Meta.
Where a new player with hybrid or Projectile fit player can get meta 4 bonus to tracking, damage multipliers and refire, you get refire from a meta 4 HM or Cruise launcher.

I trained Missiles last, having trained all the gunnery it won't impact me as much but it still leaves a bitter taste seeing CCP clubbing the ever loving shite out of Missile boats again, for the third time now.


inb4 Drake needs guns. Smile
zubzubzubzubzubzubzubzub
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#53 - 2012-09-28 10:50:23 UTC
I prefer faction missiles. They pack a wallop yet, but with none of the drawbacks t2's give you. The real question should be why you're allowed to use faction ammunition with T1 skills. Not just missiles, but all of it. Blink
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#54 - 2012-09-28 14:16:34 UTC
Steve Ronuken wrote:
But if you don't already have have all the lower size specialities, you can't. (small and medium blaster specialization, + their requirements)


So? The amount of time needed to specialize in missiles isn't much different from specializing in lasers, hybrids or projectiles. Training, say, all missile supports to 5 and all t2 missile spec skills to IV (save for dumb crap like FoF/defenders) takes a bit longer than training all gunnery supports to 5 and t2 specs for hybrids up to large.

The only difference is that it takes less time to beeline straight for t2 torps, for example. I personally wouldn't mind rockets > HAMs > torps and lights/rapid lights > HMLs > cruises as the prereq paths for missiles.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#55 - 2012-09-28 14:31:02 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Roll Sizzle Beef wrote:
Away from caldari there is no clear missile path, its a secondary weapon.
You can learn specific missile sizes because of selective ships.
Just as you can train up Heavy t2 drones before light and med.
When you learn heavy turrets, you have learned medium and small as every race has a clear path of turret ships.


See, this is the answer I was looking for. Could do without the rant queens and forumlords next time, please. Cheers Beef! Big smile


If you don't want "rant queens and forumlords" try not making overly simplistic and ultimately incorrect assumptions in your posts. People respond to how YOU post.

What RSB told you is true and very easy to figure out if you had been more open to discussion rather than posting like you already got it all figured out.

In other words, sometimes the problem isn't everyone else it's you.
Alpheias
Tactical Farmers.
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2012-09-28 15:24:24 UTC
TheBreadMuncher wrote:
Alpheias wrote:
Because how many dedicated missile ships is there and how many races is there?


1) Amarr dedicated missile T2 ships
2) Caldari dedicated missile ships (T1 and T2)

That's two races without looking. You'll find others.


You are missing the point, the number of dedicated missile ships compared to dedicated turret ships is few in comparison.

Agent of Chaos, Sower of Discord.

Don't talk to me unless you are IQ verified and certified with three references from non-family members. Please have your certificate of authenticity on hand.
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