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Anybody know whats going on with isogen?
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sackofdung Sasen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#1 - 2012-09-27 17:36:45 UTC
Isogen is up about 50% since a few weeks ago. Is someone manipulating it or has the drone poo finally run out on this mineral? I know it comes from 2 of the not so convenient ores to mine. Maybe that has something to do with it?
Idris Helion
Doomheim
#2 - 2012-09-27 19:06:35 UTC
sackofdung Sasen wrote:
Isogen is up about 50% since a few weeks ago. Is someone manipulating it or has the drone poo finally run out on this mineral? I know it comes from 2 of the not so convenient ores to mine. Maybe that has something to do with it?


Quick! To the Omber belts, boys!

Seriously, though, it would be nice if it were worthwhile to mine Omber because I've run into about a million Omber grav sites.
Elinarien
Doomheim
#3 - 2012-09-27 20:35:52 UTC
Isogen is definitely up - plenty of buy orders around 95isk in Everyshore though interestingly the Omber price seems to be stable.
Dersk
Perkone
Caldari State
#4 - 2012-09-27 22:23:02 UTC
If only we had some clue
Jay Aaron
M-Spec Industrial Resources Ltd
Agents of Fortune
#5 - 2012-09-28 00:31:46 UTC
LOL, thanks for the heads-up. I've put an all out sell on that stack.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#6 - 2012-09-28 03:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: corestwo
"What happened to isogen" is that I bought the fresh stacks below a 540 million unit zombie order, then said "hey guys we should buy isogen and here's why" and another cabal member took a big bite, and then before we could tip off regular goons to it, someone else finished it off. Since that we've just let its do its thing.

"It's thing", the "why", is that it's badly undersupplied. I mean, what isn't, but its almost a special case. Like all other low ends, tons of it came from the drone regions, a source which is now gone. Unfortunately for its attempts to remain at a reasonable price, one of the primary isogen ores - Omber, as has been stated - is bad. Like, really bad. Like, it's worth less than 70% of the isk/hr of the top valued highsec ores bad. The only reason it gets mined is people don't know any better, or they're selling it to mission runners for Materials for War Preparation. It's that bad.

So, half the potential isogen bearing ore is undermined, because it's **** Now, Gneiss has an equivalent amount of isogen, but if Omber is **** then Gneiss is like bloody runs, so no one gives it a second look. Hemorphite has some and Hedbergite as a ton, twice as much per refine. But, they're both triple the volume of Omber, and so really yield roughly 20% and 65% of the isogen per hour that Kernite can. And in real terms, they only collectively yield 10% as much Isogen as Kernite does anyway, so even when Nocx hits 1400 and nullsec miners scramble to strip all the H&H they can find, they won't really be significant contributors to supply.

Anyway, back to Isogen.

All else equal, Kernite becomes the top dog in highsec when Isogen hits about 125/unit...which means it already has become top dog, if only by a slender margin. Omber doesn't match Veldspar until 165, and doesn't pull even with the rest of the non-Kernite ores until 190.

Of course, by 190 Kernite is worth 20% more than any other highsec ore, so maybe it doesn't get there.

But then again, Kernite is limited to 0.6 (or perhaps 0.7, I'm not 100% sure) and below, Amarr space only. Kinda localized. So, maybe it goes higher, just because people can't be assed to move. I mean, they already only have to touch their mackinaws once every half hour, asking them to be active enough to fly to other systems seems like a stretch.

That's getting really, really speculative though, so to be safe, we'll say 125-190 is where it lands, most likely the upper range.






Either that or I'm spinning a huge line of bull****. You decide. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#7 - 2012-09-28 04:46:05 UTC
corestwo wrote:


That's getting really, really speculative though, so to be safe, we'll say 125-190 is where it lands, most likely the upper range.

Blink


Claiming that iso will land more than double it's value after manipulation make me want some of what your smokin.
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#8 - 2012-09-28 14:06:58 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
corestwo wrote:


That's getting really, really speculative though, so to be safe, we'll say 125-190 is where it lands, most likely the upper range.

Blink


Claiming that iso will land more than double it's value after manipulation make me want some of what your smokin.


I didn't manipulate anything, I merely removed a significant roadblock to the market going where it would anyway. Blink

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#9 - 2012-09-29 22:45:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Scrapyard Bob
One question is, if Kernite becomes the new darling and gets mined a lot more, what does that do to the other low-end minerals?

But it's very true that in general, the high-end ores stay within about 30-40% of each other. And "hot" ores (such as Pyrox back in the spring) rarely to far above the rest of the pack for very long.

Scord/Plag/Pyrox are around 205 ISK/m3 right now. Kernite 200, Veld 182. Omber is down at 133.

Veld:Scor ratio is 1.13, a very narrow range. The Omber:Scor ratio is around 1.54, which is getting towards historically narrow values. But that's what happens when the market is stable for a few months. The miners get more rational about what they mine. The best/worst values tighten up as the suppliers adapt to meet the demands.

If you go back and look at historical data, then it's pretty obvious that Omber being at 2.00+ below the best hi-sec ore meant that something would have to give. Either Omber's value would have to come up, or the top-value ores would have to lose ground.

Historical data:

Feb 2010: Veld 80 Scor 100 Pyro 68 Plag 99 Omb 57 Kern 85 -- 1.75 / 1.47
Mar 2010: Veld 83 Scor 105 Pyro 70 Plag 104 Omb 59 Kern 90 -- 1.78 / 1.50
Apr 2010: Veld 81 Scor 100 Pyro 71 Plag 105 Omb 58 Kern 90 -- 1.81 / 1.48
May 2010: Veld 75 Scor 86 Pyro 70 Plag 93 Omb 59 Kern 87 -- 1.58 / 1.33
Jun 2010: Veld 76 Scor 87 Pyro 68 Plag 87 Omb 55 Kern 80 -- 1.58 / 1.28
Jul 2010: Veld 73 Scor 79 Pyro 67 Plag 87 Omb 56 Kern 84 -- 1.55 / 1.30

Jun 2011: Veld 96 Scor 90 Pyro 105 Plag 88 Omb 68 Kern 94 -- 1.54 / 1.19
Aug 2011: Veld 96 Scor 89 Pyro 106 Plag 88 Omb 66 Kern 92 -- 1.61 / 1.20
Sep 2011: Veld 102 Scor 92 Pyro 112 Plag 95 Omb 71 Kern 101 -- 1.58 / 1.22
Oct 2011: Veld 99 Scor 90 Pyro 117 Plag 101 Omb 69 Kern 104 -- 1.70 / 1.30
Nov 2011: Veld 97 Scor 90 Pyro 123 Plag 103 Omb 66 Kern 103 -- 1.86 / 1.37
Dec 2011: Veld 101 Scor 98 Pyro 147 Plag 142 Omb 69 Kern 136 -- 2.13 / 1.50
Jan 2012: Veld 114 Scor 105 Pyro 146 Plag 135 Omb 72 Kern 132 -- 2.03 / 1.39
Feb 2012: Veld 133 Scor 117 Pyro 168 Plag 151 Omb 81 Kern 149 -- 2.07 / 1.44
Mar 2012: Veld 137 Scor 121 Pyro 170 Plag 154 Omb 82 Kern 151 -- 2.07 / 1.40
Apr 2012: Veld 176 Scor 152 Pyro 221 Plag 158 Omb 99 Kern 161 -- 2.23 / 1.45
May 2012: Veld 179 Scor 163 Pyro 205 Plag 162 Omb 99 Kern 160 -- 2.07 / 1.28
Jun 2012: Veld 187 Scor 200 Pyro 198 Plag 188 Omb 101 Kern 166 -- 1.98 / 1.20
Jul 2012: Veld 194 Scor 211 Pyro 206 Plag 202 Omb 111 Kern 181 -- 1.90 / 1.16
Aug 2012: Veld 179 Scor 201 Pyro 186 Plag 195 Omb 100 Kern 169 -- 2.01 / 1.19
Sep 2012: Veld 177 Scor 201 Pyro 203 Plag 199 Omb 135 Kern 199 -- 1.50 / 1.15

The numbers of #.## / #.## are the:

- Ratio of the best hi-sec ore divided by the worst hi-sec ore (usually Pyrox/Omber)
- Ratio of the best hi-sec ore divided by the 2nd worst hi-sec ore (usually Pyrox/Plag or Pyrox/Scord)
Rengerel en Distel
#10 - 2012-09-30 01:54:56 UTC
Not that i don't like historical data, but you can't take data that had different product streams. Anything before the drone poo/gun mining/pax changes is skewed compared to now. So the historical data is less than a year, which also included a permageddon followed by a mining barge buff.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
Fiat Money
EVE Sky Corp
#11 - 2012-09-30 10:06:30 UTC
Thanks guys, you did me a favour!

Sold my last 200 mil items in the 120 isk range that got stuck for several months...
sackofdung Sasen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#12 - 2012-09-30 16:14:14 UTC  |  Edited by: sackofdung Sasen
sry wrong post. Thx for the replies.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#13 - 2012-10-02 18:06:46 UTC
Omber was once the best high sec ore to mine. This combined with the supply from drone POO saturated the market which drove the price of omber down to the worst high sec ore. As isogen supply dwindles, eventually the price of omber will come up to at least compare to the other high sec ores.

As Corestwo said. all the Goons did was help it along. Although when the price comes up they will make some huge profits. Still this is not some manipulation in that prices will drop right back down. Isogen is needed and now that the market is no longer saturated with it Omber should permanently regain some of what it has lost.
Silk daShocka
Greasy Hair Club
#14 - 2012-10-02 18:44:55 UTC
Kernite is currently the best ore to mine in high sec, isogen is steadily declining in price.

But since a goon said it wasn't manipulation and the price shoudl settle at 190, the iso market clearly wasn't maniupulated. Yea ok
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
#15 - 2012-10-02 19:24:08 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Kernite is currently the best ore to mine in high sec, isogen is steadily declining in price.


Sure, if your reference time is something like "Now, going back 16 hours", it's steadily declining in price.

In truth, it's been yo-yoing between ~120 and ~140 for the past few days.

This post was crafted by a member of the GoonSwarm Federation Economic Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay.

fofofo
TAHKEP
Space Fiber Weavers
#16 - 2012-10-02 19:25:12 UTC
Personally ive watched Isogen steadily climbing. That big spike you seen was more than likely someone copping on to the fact that isogen has been on the rise ever since the last patch.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#17 - 2012-10-02 22:06:53 UTC
(shrugs)

You may not like the historical data, but it's just evidence of the pattern that if one particular hi-sec ore is much higher then the other ores, miners will (slowly) move towards mining that ore. And they mostly stop mining the worst value ore. Assuming no outside influences like CCP changing recipes, introducing new ships, major wars, or restrictions of supply due to gank events, the ores will all settle down to be within 10-20% of each other in value.

From what I can remember, back when Omber was the darling of hi-sec (2009? 2008?), it was worth around 105 ISK/m3 while Veld was about 60 ISK/m3 or so (a 1.75 ratio). The others were in the 80s and were within 20-30% of Omber's value.
sackofdung Sasen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#18 - 2012-10-06 18:32:10 UTC
Price is rock solid at 134 Oct. 6th 2:22 pm est. I was anticipating isogen would finally break a mold considering it is probably the most pain in the a** high sec mineral to mine. Just for the hell of it, I filled 3 orca loads, about 600k m3 full of nothing but omber and i didnt even get 1 million units of isogen. Plus the fact all this talk of people able to afk mine with thier huge ore holds in thier buffed barges doesnt really apply to kernite and omber, due to the small number of units per roid.
Virr Kotto
Doomheim
#19 - 2012-10-06 20:09:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Virr Kotto
Historical or not, I'm sure folks can look forward to the Christmas Slump as usual.

What some of you should be asking yourselves now is, which other minerals have just about exhausted their "drone poo" legacies... or not. Shocked

Happy (Canuck) Turkey Day. Blink
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#20 - 2012-10-06 20:11:30 UTC
sackofdung Sasen wrote:
Price is rock solid at 134 Oct. 6th 2:22 pm est. I was anticipating isogen would finally break a mold considering it is probably the most pain in the a** high sec mineral to mine. Just for the hell of it, I filled 3 orca loads, about 600k m3 full of nothing but omber and i didnt even get 1 million units of isogen. Plus the fact all this talk of people able to afk mine with thier huge ore holds in thier buffed barges doesnt really apply to kernite and omber, due to the small number of units per roid.


Scarce supply due to game design does not necessarily imply a much larger demand has been coded in. There are not many T3 BCs "isogen hungry version", right?

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