EVE General Discussion

The Mackinaw hull is of finite size. That means as cargo room goes up for more ore they need to throw something else overboard, or else the poor thing would burst open. So I propose a change to its bonuses to reflect that.

For each level of the Mining Barge skill:

5% bonus to ore hold capacity
-5% malus to all shield resistances
-10% malus to shield capacity

Shield generator or cargo. Pick one.

What does Orca support have to do with EHP? I could have an off-grid T3 boosting Mackinaws instead of an aligns-like-a-bowling-ball Orca sitting in belt.

It's micromanagement. Not all micromanagement is measured in APM.



I look at the Hulk bonus and go "Oh man that extra yield is totally awesome over time!" I look at the Mack's bonus and go "Lets put that Face Melting V back in the queue." Would YOU train Exhumers V if you had no future vision to mine in regular fleet ops?

It IS significantly higher effort/yield.

well if you tank all 3 of them hulk mack and skiff
skiff 57,000hp 75,000 ehp 4,039.67 m3 25.53 m3/s wt2 mining drones 15,000 m3 cargo
skiff same same 3,758,42m3 20.88 m3/s without t2 mining drones

mack 28,117 hp 34,609 ehp 3,729.34m3 23.84 m3/s wt2 mining drones 35,000m3 cargo
mack same same 3,448.09m3 19.16 m3/s with out t2 mining drones

hulk we all know what the hulk dose no need to list it

point is when all 3 of them are tanked mack has less yield comes in 3 less tank come in 2 slower then skiff to

the only way a mack can out mine a skiff is by giving up tank skiff is best one out of all of them for solo miner

players say it all day long about mack better yield then skiff 200% bonus on skiff make it better ship then the mack cant make a player buy it lol


this what it look like when you get more yeild on mack

15,493 ehp 13,492hp 4,654.66 m3 25.86 m3/s with out t2 mining drones
same same 4,935.91 m3 30,55 m3/s wt2 mining drones

as you can see easy gank less tank then hulk macks not that good and the cap on it sucks

I use all 3 to be honest. Max yielded hulk for when I have a hauler or have contracted out to help with a mining op (I'm only running one account atm, and I had my fill of solo jet-can mining back when I was working towards my first barge), a Mack moderately tanked with some +yield as well for when I'm going solo, and fully tanked Skiff for when there's gankers about but I haven't reached my qouta yet (the only thing I really hate about it is that it does 3450 m3 per cycle and if the rock has less then that I stand to lose some time trying to guess how much of the cycle % to stop it at).

The only thing I disliked was that my retriever and hulk's rigs were suddenly worthless (had them both rigged/upgraded for as much cargo as I could hold). Would've been awesome if they had been unfitted without harm so I could've sold them or moved to another ship...but..oh well.

Still... the key what everything based for in this balancing initiative was;

1) macks are mainly thought as ships for solo mining.
2) skiffs are mainly thought to be used in more dangerous areas or when afk mining.
2) hulks were thought as fleet ships with support.

The things what went wrong;

- Afk miner wants big cargo and likes rather safe ehp. This makes mack "falsely" his preferred ship even he should sit in skiff.
- Mack should be solo mining ship but people use it "falsely" in fleets because it is stronger than hulk.

... so you really don't have to be nuclear scientist to see that this would be fixed by switching hulk/mack tanks as OP suggested.

If the balancing act would have worked, clearly the "non existing" hisec mining bots would be using skiffs instead.

I can't believe people are still squalling about this.

CCP gives miners a superb hisec mining pimpmobile in the new Mackinaw, and they cry that their hulks are no longer king of the hill.

Trade your Hulk(s) in on Macks if you're a solo or small-gang miner. Problem solved. If you're in a fleet, continue on as normal because Hulks are still the king of yield. Mining hulls are role-based. Get used to it. It's no longer necessary to just skill into a Hulk and then use the Hulk for everything -- other ships actually have a purpose and a use-case now.

I keep several Procurers on hand to put in my Orca for on-the-spot mining opportunities during missions, and I have Retrievers salted all over the place as a low-cost way to do cheap mining ops. I have a Skiff that's saved my hide more than once in some lowsec mining scenarios. My home system's mining crew runs Macks as a rule, but on weekends when I get everyone together we run Hulks + an Orca.

This tells you obviously didn't even read what this thread was about :)

We are discussing about the validity of those use-cases you're talking about. If plenty of people are seen in belts using the ships for "wrong purpose" then the roles don't work very well. As now mack is clearly the new "good compromise for everything" ship, we can ask where the purpose you're referring is.

This is the reason why at least I am backing up the suggestion to switch hulks and macks tanks or do some other balancing towards that direction. In the end hulk is secondary ship in this discussion and key thing would be to get macks tank nerfed to the point where that hull stops being good compromise for everything.

The mack is unprofitable to gank without a tank fitted. How exactly is this not a problem given that this means the skiff is redundent?

Supposing there was a future where some magic force distributed ores properly across high/low/null according to an ideal risk/reward ratio, would it matter that the Mackinaw had a bit too much tank in highsec?

Is the Skiff actually useful for its tank in low or nullsec? I heard it's common for people to just bubble gates and watch local in null. Because they can warp to safety before an attacker can reach them, they don't need extra tank and can use a Hulk. In lowsec, it seems that if you're caught in a mining ship you're dead anyway, the extra tank just holds it off a few seconds.

If that's true, the extra tank is only useful against suicide ganking in highsec. It's said that because the tank on the Mackinaw is so high, the Skiff's tank is redundant. Does this mean only someone who wants you dead will suicide gank you? If this is the only case where somone will gank you, does it really matter how high the tank is? They don't care about profit and so will bring whatever it takes to kill you, ten dessies or ten Brutixes (Brutices? w/e)

Is this why the Skiff is considered useless? Please correct me where I am wrong