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Upcoming "balancing" overall repercussions.

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feihcsiM
THE B0YS
#161 - 2012-09-27 10:58:47 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Onictus wrote:
feihcsiM wrote:


While I agree with most of what you have posted in this thread, I don't entirely agree with this. The fact that not a great proportion of people use drone boats compared to turret/missile boats is fair enough, but 800dps from sentry drones alone is hardly an 'insignificant amount of gunboat or missileboat damage.'

.


I have to ask how many damage mods on a BS V Domi does that take?


Oh, he forgot to mention to achieve that 800 DPS the Domi has no tank....no biggie.



4 amps. Active tank rattlesnake. More than sufficient tank. Sorry to disappoint.

It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine.
Skippermonkey
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#162 - 2012-09-27 11:32:47 UTC
Kara Vix wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I will be sure to let the wormhole community know that their entire operation is now in a bind because of the upcoming missile changes. Because that's all they use, of course.


I would think that an ISD tag would preclude being sarcastic on the forums. You represent more than yourself so perhaps try being a neutral voice of reason?


Remove the stick from your ass

I welcome comments like this, it shows that ISDs actually have a sense of humor and are not above trolling the OP when they deserve it

COME AT ME BRO

I'LL JUST BE DOCKED IN THIS STATION
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#163 - 2012-09-27 18:25:35 UTC
Skippermonkey wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I will be sure to let the wormhole community know that their entire operation is now in a bind because of the upcoming missile changes. Because that's all they use, of course.


I would think that an ISD tag would preclude being sarcastic on the forums. You represent more than yourself so perhaps try being a neutral voice of reason?


Remove the stick from your ass

I welcome comments like this, it shows that ISDs actually have a sense of humor and are not above trolling the OP when they deserve it


Of course you welcome comments like that. Its so much easier than making an intelligent and polite counter comment.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#164 - 2012-09-27 18:34:55 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Skippermonkey wrote:
Kara Vix wrote:
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode wrote:
I will be sure to let the wormhole community know that their entire operation is now in a bind because of the upcoming missile changes. Because that's all they use, of course.


I would think that an ISD tag would preclude being sarcastic on the forums. You represent more than yourself so perhaps try being a neutral voice of reason?


Remove the stick from your ass

I welcome comments like this, it shows that ISDs actually have a sense of humor and are not above trolling the OP when they deserve it


Of course you welcome comments like that. Its so much easier than making an intelligent and polite counter comment.


Well, given that suggesting that you should prove your claims doesn't work and showing that your claims don't have any basis in reality doesn't work, what else is there?

Oh, right. You're the type who's been taught that "Constructive Criticism Only" means "Positive Feedback Only."

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#165 - 2012-09-27 18:51:17 UTC
now now guys, we all want to hear cipher's well reasoned proofs that nerfing OP sh*t causes mass player exoduses
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#166 - 2012-09-27 18:54:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
If you play on the tranquility server over time then you see the population rise and fall. You see that the server has less players today than it once did.

You can read MMOData.net where Eve directly submits its numbers, and you can read eveoffline which takes its numbers from the server API. You can watch fanfest and see CCP themselves say that people leaving the game almost broke the bank . You can read the forums and see people saying they are going to leave the game as the numbers go down.

There's only so much you can conclude.

1. You don't believe the published numbers from CCP, the API from Eveoffline, or the "users online" number when you log into the game.
2. You believe that less people play the game but you don't believe that it has anything to do with any balances that CCP made.
3. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will not cause people to leave.
4. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will cause people to leave.

50000 people left the server at once TWO TIMES. Incarna happened ONCE. I cant prove why all 100000 people left the game. All anyone can do is speculate.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#167 - 2012-09-27 19:50:39 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you play on the tranquility server over time then you see the population rise and fall. You see that the server has less players today than it once did.

You can read MMOData.net where Eve directly submits its numbers, and you can read eveoffline which takes its numbers from the server API. You can watch fanfest and see CCP themselves say that people leaving the game almost broke the bank . You can read the forums and see people saying they are going to leave the game as the numbers go down.

There's only so much you can conclude.

1. You don't believe the published numbers from CCP, the API from Eveoffline, or the "users online" number when you log into the game.
2. You believe that less people play the game but you don't believe that it has anything to do with any balances that CCP made.
3. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will not cause people to leave.
4. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will cause people to leave.

50000 people left the server at once TWO TIMES. Incarna happened ONCE. I cant prove why all 100000 people left the game. All anyone can do is speculate.



First. Nobody's arguing that people don't leave the game. You claimed that people would leave the game in droves due to the upcoming nerfs. What evidence do you have to suggest that nerfs cause any significant numbers to leave the game?

Second. Which nerf event caused 100,000 people to leave the game? The best guess is that Incarna resulted in about a 25-30k drop in subscriptions.

Third. When did the server population drop by 50,000 people ever let alone twice?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#168 - 2012-09-27 20:15:10 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you play on the tranquility server over time then you see the population rise and fall. You see that the server has less players today than it once did.

You can read MMOData.net where Eve directly submits its numbers, and you can read eveoffline which takes its numbers from the server API. You can watch fanfest and see CCP themselves say that people leaving the game almost broke the bank . You can read the forums and see people saying they are going to leave the game as the numbers go down.

There's only so much you can conclude.

1. You don't believe the published numbers from CCP, the API from Eveoffline, or the "users online" number when you log into the game.
2. You believe that less people play the game but you don't believe that it has anything to do with any balances that CCP made.
3. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will not cause people to leave.
4. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will cause people to leave.

50000 people left the server at once TWO TIMES. Incarna happened ONCE. I cant prove why all 100000 people left the game. All anyone can do is speculate.



First. Nobody's arguing that people don't leave the game. You claimed that people would leave the game in droves due to the upcoming nerfs. What evidence do you have to suggest that nerfs cause any significant numbers to leave the game?

Second. Which nerf event caused 100,000 people to leave the game? The best guess is that Incarna resulted in about a 25-30k drop in subscriptions.

Third. When did the server population drop by 50,000 people ever let alone twice?



FIrst, by people claiming they would leave and then the server population went down.

Second, that is a strawnam argument.

Third, look at the charts and see for yourself. Remember that eveoffline is updated daily and mmodata.net is updated when CCP sends them data. You can see many server drops of 15% or more on eveoffline that reflect overall poor server health.

Remember that unsubs hurt the economy, but also people logging off for 6 months at a time have the same effect on in game economy.



internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#169 - 2012-09-27 20:35:16 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you play on the tranquility server over time then you see the population rise and fall. You see that the server has less players today than it once did.

You can read MMOData.net where Eve directly submits its numbers, and you can read eveoffline which takes its numbers from the server API. You can watch fanfest and see CCP themselves say that people leaving the game almost broke the bank . You can read the forums and see people saying they are going to leave the game as the numbers go down.

There's only so much you can conclude.

1. You don't believe the published numbers from CCP, the API from Eveoffline, or the "users online" number when you log into the game.
2. You believe that less people play the game but you don't believe that it has anything to do with any balances that CCP made.
3. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will not cause people to leave.
4. You believe the combination of upcoming balances will cause people to leave.

50000 people left the server at once TWO TIMES. Incarna happened ONCE. I cant prove why all 100000 people left the game. All anyone can do is speculate.



First. Nobody's arguing that people don't leave the game. You claimed that people would leave the game in droves due to the upcoming nerfs. What evidence do you have to suggest that nerfs cause any significant numbers to leave the game?

Second. Which nerf event caused 100,000 people to leave the game? The best guess is that Incarna resulted in about a 25-30k drop in subscriptions.

Third. When did the server population drop by 50,000 people ever let alone twice?

FIrst, by people claiming they would leave and then the server population went down.

Second, that is a strawnam argument.

Third, look at the charts and see for yourself. Remember that eveoffline is updated daily and mmodata.net is updated when CCP sends them data. You can see many server drops of 15% or more on eveoffline that reflect overall poor server health.

Remember that unsubs hurt the economy, but also people logging off for 6 months at a time have the same effect on in game economy.


1. When? You've shown that the server pop decreases on occasion. You've yet to make any attempt to actually link that to some nerf or another. Again, your claim was that the nerf would cause people to leave. There have been other nerfs in the past. What evidence do you have that nerfs cause people to quit in significant numbers, or what evidence do you have that this nerf is going to be different from the previous ones? Again, the last nerf that affected this many people was the Nano nerf that was followed by a 6 month, 8k rise in average PCU.

2.
Quote:
I cant prove why all 100000 people left the game. All anyone can do is speculate.

When did 100,000 people quit?


3. So what evidence do you have to suggest that there have been 2 50k Subscription loss events?

So you're saying that summer is bad for the economy? That's been the biggest cause of drops in average PCU aside from Incarna.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Lord Ryan
True Xero
#170 - 2012-09-27 20:39:43 UTC
This is awesome! I'm tired of the Drake being all useful.

Now all you smug Drake pilots can know the shame of us Brutix pilots.

Do not assume anything above this line was typed by me. Nerf the Truth, it's inconvenient.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#171 - 2012-09-28 14:22:14 UTC
Fluctuations in the number of people online at any given time have little or no correlation with the number of active subscriptions.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ginger Barbarella
#172 - 2012-09-28 14:24:25 UTC
Bad bait attempt is bad.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#173 - 2012-09-28 14:33:21 UTC
Cede Forster wrote:
I for one, welcome our new HAM overlord


That's Raci...I mean PORKist.
sonny2dap
Zolo Cartel
#174 - 2012-09-28 15:57:37 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Fluctuations in the number of people online at any given time have little or no correlation with the number of active subscriptions.



hard as it is to believe that people do other things than play eve online, you are quite right, shocking as it may seem to the OP not everyone with an active subscription logs in daily, silly things like work and family have a nasty habit of getting in the way of internet spaceshipz, the OP is right however when he says game alterations can make people stop playing on a fairly large scale, case and point Incarna, what the OP fails to realise is that Incarna was a foul up beyond imagining and affected every player in the game, the proposed changes only seek to improve the viability of more ships/weapons and those that do leave will unlikely be as the result of a nerf to a weapon system.
EvEa Deva
Doomheim
#175 - 2012-09-28 16:15:06 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Speaker for TheDead wrote:
Arkon Olacar wrote:
So overpowered ships should remain overpowered because people are using them? kay



How can anyone use "Overpowered" when discussing a drake? Oops


Got another BC that can do 400DPS from 70km while sporting a ~70k EHP tank, Prop mod, and Point?

No other BC comes anywhere near to that.

Heck, name any other non-T3 BC that does 400DPS from 70km, ignoring tank, prop mod, and point.



Drake is just OK, if you think its OP.... well you suck
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#176 - 2012-09-28 18:10:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Fluctuations in the number of people online at any given time have little or no correlation with the number of active subscriptions.


I'll remember that next time PCU and subs drop simultaneously and the president of CCP gets on stage and apologizes for his bad management.

I have a popcorn maker.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#177 - 2012-09-28 20:03:42 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Fluctuations in the number of people online at any given time have little or no correlation with the number of active subscriptions.


I'll remember that next time PCU and subs drop simultaneously and the president of CCP gets on stage and apologizes for his bad management.

I have a popcorn maker.


So the drop in PCU that happens every summer is caused by people unsubbing? Sure...Roll


What evidence do you have that links any significant subscription loss with a nerf*? Why is it so hard to get you to provide evidence to support the central claim of your OP? Could it be because your OP is bullshit?

*You haven't even tried a correlative link, let alone a causative one, ffs.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#178 - 2012-09-29 03:48:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
People get on the forums, say they will quit, and then less people are on the server. I won't provide the thousands of hypertext markup language uniform resource location "links" it would require to satisfy what would be constituted as "proof" in a court of law. If you don't understand the correlative link between people quitting video games and something in the game getting nerfed you just cant.

I can understand it and CCP can understand it. I actually think CCP has been doing a GOOD job of it lately. I just think they either didn't think this one through, or just don't care if they lose a projected amount of subs because they think they will gain more from it.

I hadn't thought of it when I made the OP but one possibility is that they want to pick up on the millions of dropped WoW subs. (The ones that quit because the skill tree got nerfed).

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#179 - 2012-09-29 03:59:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Cipher Jones wrote:
People get on the forums, say they will quit, and then less people are on the server. I won't provide the thousands of hypertext markup language uniform resource location "links" it would require to satisfy what would be constituted as "proof" in a court of law. If you don't understand the correlative link between people quitting video games and something in the game getting nerfed you just cant.


You haven't even shown any correlation between nerfs and significant decreases in PCU. Let me spell this out for you slowly.
1. Find a nerf in EVE that you think caused mass unsubs.
2. Mark down the date.
3. Find that date on the PCU graph and look for a drop.

It's three steps. Why are they so hard for you? Is it because you've tried and couldn't find any?

Hell, I even did those three steps (though I'm certainly not under any obligation, as I'm not claiming anything yet), showing that there was an increase of 8k PCU over the 6 months following the nano Nerf (incidentally, one of the sharpest PCU climbs in EVE's history).

Quote:
I can understand it and CCP can understand it. I actually think CCP has been doing a GOOD job of it lately. I just think they either didn't think this one through, or just don't care if they lose a projected amount of subs because they think they will gain more from it.

I hadn't thought of it when I made the OP but one possibility is that they want to pick up on the millions of dropped WoW subs. (The ones that quit because the skill tree got nerfed).


Whet? When did the skill tree get nerfed? The only time I can think of where skills were removed was when learning skills disappeared (and I don't know of any PCU drop following that).

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#180 - 2012-09-29 04:16:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
If you don't believe that people have left Eve because of nerfs already without me posting it then nothing I can post will be worth my time. Why? Because every expansion is released in summer and winter, so when there is a blanket defense for all nerfs already in place. You have already tried the summertime defense many times.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it