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Upcoming "balancing" overall repercussions.

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Pipa Porto
#181 - 2012-09-29 05:14:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you don't believe that people have left Eve because of nerfs already without me posting it then nothing I can post will be worth my time. Why? Because every expansion is released in summer and winter, so when there is a blanket defense for all nerfs already in place. You have already tried the summertime defense many times.


Because magnitude doesn't mean anything, of course. The summer time drop in PCU is somewhat regular. Winter doesn't have a regular drop in PCU. Mentioning the summer drop was to counter your claim that every drop in PCU was caused by a nerf (I have to assume that's your claim, since you've yet to name which nerf you think caused a drop in PCU/Active Sub).

Which specific nerfs do you think caused a drop in PCU or active Subs? I'm not even asking you to prove anything yet. Just name which nerf you're talking about. Why is that so difficult for you? Is it because you haven't been able to find a nerf that was followed by a drop in PCU?

I know of a nerf that was followed by an 8k increase in PCU over the next 6 months. It was a big nerf. It affected literally everyone. It's commonly referred to as the nano nerf. Maybe you've heard of it?

Oh, and when did the skill tree get "nerfed" as you claim?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#182 - 2012-09-29 05:23:38 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you don't believe that people have left Eve because of nerfs already without me posting it then nothing I can post will be worth my time. Why? Because every expansion is released in summer and winter, so when there is a blanket defense for all nerfs already in place. You have already tried the summertime defense many times.


Because magnitude doesn't mean anything, of course. The summer time drop in PCU is somewhat regular. Winter doesn't have a regular drop in PCU. Mentioning the summer drop was to counter your claim that every drop in PCU was caused by a nerf (I have to assume that's your claim, since you've yet to name which nerf you think caused a drop in PCU/Active Sub).

Which specific nerfs do you think caused a drop in PCU or active Subs? I'm not even asking you to prove anything yet. Just name which nerf you're talking about. Why is that so difficult for you? Is it because you haven't been able to find a nerf that was followed by a drop in PCU?

I know of a nerf that was followed by an 8k increase in PCU over the next 6 months. It was a big nerf. It affected literally everyone. It's commonly referred to as the nano nerf. Maybe you've heard of it?

Oh, and when did the skill tree get "nerfed" as you claim?


The skill tree nerf that cost millions of subs was in Wow. The nano nerf did not attract people to the game, the associated expansion did.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#183 - 2012-09-29 05:28:35 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Pipa Porto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
If you don't believe that people have left Eve because of nerfs already without me posting it then nothing I can post will be worth my time. Why? Because every expansion is released in summer and winter, so when there is a blanket defense for all nerfs already in place. You have already tried the summertime defense many times.


Because magnitude doesn't mean anything, of course. The summer time drop in PCU is somewhat regular. Winter doesn't have a regular drop in PCU. Mentioning the summer drop was to counter your claim that every drop in PCU was caused by a nerf (I have to assume that's your claim, since you've yet to name which nerf you think caused a drop in PCU/Active Sub).

Which specific nerfs do you think caused a drop in PCU or active Subs? I'm not even asking you to prove anything yet. Just name which nerf you're talking about. Why is that so difficult for you? Is it because you haven't been able to find a nerf that was followed by a drop in PCU?

I know of a nerf that was followed by an 8k increase in PCU over the next 6 months. It was a big nerf. It affected literally everyone. It's commonly referred to as the nano nerf. Maybe you've heard of it?

Oh, and when did the skill tree get "nerfed" as you claim?


The skill tree nerf that cost millions of subs was in Wow. The nano nerf did not attract people to the game, the associated expansion did.


Ah, so a nerf that didn't happen in EVE. Since this is EVE and not WOW, Roll

Which nerf in EVE do you think has caused a drop in subs or average PCU? I'm not even asking you to prove anything yet. Just name which nerf you're talking about. Why is that so difficult for you? Is it because you haven't been able to find a nerf that was followed by a drop in PCU?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#184 - 2012-09-29 05:33:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cipher Jones wrote:
The nano nerf did not attract people to the game, the associated expansion did.
Eh, no. Largely because Quantum Rise was (and still is) well known for being one of the most lacklustre expansions ever.

It added: the Orca. A new LSAA that supported building Orcas. Oh, and alchemy.

So yeah, no. What attracted people was the large number of nerfs that massively improved the game and opened up more viable gameplay options. The expansion itself had a level of attraction that had a hard time competing with oatmeal porridge.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#185 - 2012-09-29 05:34:41 UTC
Quote:
Ah, so a nerf that didn't happen in EVE. Since this is EVE and not WOW,


You asked for a correlation that you either can't understand or are pretending to not understand.

Either way entertains me greatly, thank you.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#186 - 2012-09-29 05:37:26 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Ah, so a nerf that didn't happen in EVE. Since this is EVE and not WOW,


You asked for a correlation that you either can't understand or are pretending to not understand.

Either way entertains me greatly, thank you.


I'm asking for you to present evidence that such a correlation exists. So far you have presented no such evidence.

The only conclusion we can make from your insistent refusal to provide even the slightest shred of evidence (at this point, I'm only asking you to name the nerf that you think caused a drop in PCU) is that you can't provide that evidence.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#187 - 2012-09-29 05:38:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
The nano nerf did not attract people to the game, the associated expansion did.
Eh, no. Largely because Quantum Rise was (and still is) well known for being one of the most lacklustre expansions ever.

It added: the Orca. A new LSAA that supported building Orcas. Oh, and alchemy.

So yeah, no. What attracted people was the large number of nerfs that massively improved the game and opened up more viable gameplay options. The expansion itself had a level of attraction that had a hard time competing with oatmeal porridge.


I know. MMOdata and eveoffline both show that Quantum rise lost players and that Apocrypha, the most popular expansion to date, gained them back.

Sorry for you falling for the bait Pipa laid out. That's pretty funny TBH.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#188 - 2012-09-29 05:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Pipa Porto wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Ah, so a nerf that didn't happen in EVE. Since this is EVE and not WOW,


You asked for a correlation that you either can't understand or are pretending to not understand.

Either way entertains me greatly, thank you.


I'm asking for you to present evidence that such a correlation exists. So far you have presented no such evidence.

The only conclusion we can make from your insistent refusal to provide even the slightest shred of evidence (at this point, I'm only asking you to name the nerf that you think caused a drop in PCU) is that you can't provide that evidence.


read my last post. Nano nerf lost people, expansion after that gained them back.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#189 - 2012-09-29 05:43:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Cipher Jones wrote:
I know. MMOdata and eveoffline both show that Quantum rise lost players and that Apocrypha, the most popular expansion to date, gained them back.
No. At the time of QR, the pop average was 29k. A month afterwards, it was 30k. A month later still, it was 32k. Yet another month later, it was up to 35k.

That's a 6k increase in the average population (to say nothing of PCUs) in the three months following one of the most sweeping round of nerfs and the least expanding expansion ever.

Quote:
read my last post. Nano nerf lost people, expansion after that gained them back.
Too bad that it's not what actually happened…
Pipa Porto
#190 - 2012-09-29 05:44:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Cipher Jones wrote:
The nano nerf did not attract people to the game, the associated expansion did.
Eh, no. Largely because Quantum Rise was (and still is) well known for being one of the most lacklustre expansions ever.

It added: the Orca. A new LSAA that supported building Orcas. Oh, and alchemy.

So yeah, no. What attracted people was the large number of nerfs that massively improved the game and opened up more viable gameplay options. The expansion itself had a level of attraction that had a hard time competing with oatmeal porridge.


I know. MMOdata and eveoffline both show that Quantum rise lost players and that Apocrypha, the most popular expansion to date, gained them back.

Sorry for you falling for the bait Pipa laid out. That's pretty funny TBH.


MMOData shows a significant rise in Sub count starting in about November 2008. (See where the low spot is before the 2009 line?)
Wikipedia wrote:
Quantum Rise
Release date: November 11, 2008


Eve-Offline also shows the sharp increase starting in November of 2008.


You're crediting Apocrypha (March 10, 2009) with a rise that started over 3 months before its release? Normally, effects follow causes, time being linear and all that...Roll

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#191 - 2012-09-29 05:50:29 UTC
*watches the forum PvP, thinking it's like watching a pair of fully passive tanked Drakes flinging missiles at each other, utterly incapable of penetrating the others shields*
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#192 - 2012-09-29 06:50:03 UTC
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
*watches the forum PvP, thinking it's like watching a pair of fully passive tanked Drakes flinging missiles at each other, utterly incapable of penetrating the others shields*


I lol'd. Apparently strawmen have very high kinetic resistance.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tinja Soikutsu
Perkone
Caldari State
#193 - 2012-09-29 06:55:55 UTC
You aught to know, you're the other drake...
Pipa Porto
#194 - 2012-09-29 07:00:28 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
*watches the forum PvP, thinking it's like watching a pair of fully passive tanked Drakes flinging missiles at each other, utterly incapable of penetrating the others shields*


I lol'd. Apparently strawmen have very high kinetic resistance.


Asking for evidence of a claim is a Strawman argument now?


Or is pointing out that the bump in Subs you attribute to Apocrypha started 3 or 4 months earlier, right after Quantum Rise the Strawman argument?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#195 - 2012-09-29 07:02:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
Tinja Soikutsu wrote:
You aught to know, you're the other drake...


I totally get the reference. That's why its funny.

Quote:
Asking for evidence of a claim is a Strawman argument now?


OP wrote:
IMHO


Do the math sweetheart.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#196 - 2012-09-29 07:28:20 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Asking for evidence of a claim is a Strawman argument now?
OP wrote:
IMHO
Do the math sweetheart.
In other words, no, it's not a strawman since it is indeed something you've claimed — being humble about it doesn't change the fact that you said it, nor does it change the fact that you haven't presented much in the way of support for what you said.
Pipa Porto
#197 - 2012-09-29 07:28:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pipa Porto
Cipher Jones wrote:
Quote:
Asking for evidence of a claim is a Strawman argument now?


OP wrote:
This in itself is not crippling to the game, however, a nerf to the preferred ships of many Wspace dwellers will be highly detrimental IMHO


Do the math sweetheart.


Cipher Jones wrote:
read my last post. Nano nerf lost people, expansion after that gained them back.


Tell me more about Cause following Effect in time.

Quote:
There were almost 50k people on today. I bet this next expansion is going to take us back down to the low 40's again.


What makes you think this? What previous EVE nerf caused a drop in subs?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#198 - 2012-09-29 08:16:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Cipher Jones
A previous drop in subs due to a single nerf is not a prerequisite of the OP and therefore a strawman argument.

10/10 for making me type that. You are both Jedi.

Also ROFL @ humble.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Pipa Porto
#199 - 2012-09-29 08:22:17 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
A previous drop in subs due to a single nerf is not a prerequisite of the OP and therefore a strawman argument.

10/10 for making me type that. You are both Jedi.

Also ROFL @ humble.


So now you're saying that, in contrast to every other nerf in EVE's history (since you can't point to a single event that would support your theory), this nerf will cause a drop in subs?

What's special about this nerf?

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Cede Forster
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#200 - 2012-09-29 08:36:03 UTC
So this is still going on about the likelihood of future events based on the theory that past events can predict future ones?

And no one mentioned that it is disputable in how far past events can be used to predict future events at all?