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Wasted space
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Hypercake Mix
#41 - 2012-09-24 00:26:59 UTC
I apologize for mentioning power projection. I did not think of the possibility of my message being interpreted backwards.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#42 - 2012-09-24 00:32:16 UTC
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
having to defend 23/7 against giant alliances will help small alliances because

woulda thought that was self evident

Explain how the Southern Coalition flipping Providence in an afternoon during the Providence wars (or PL doing it to Providence in early 2012) would have been a great victory for small groups in 0.0.

Or

Get a wormhole guy in here to endorse the idea of making a small group (aka a wormhole corp) have to defend their POSs 23/7 thanks to the addition of something like wormhole stabilizers.

Agreed somewhet but in essence if you cannot be there to defend your space all the time the obvious consequence is having less of it and a reduced ability (and desire) to grab more of it.

It stands to reason that it is now available for someone else with a reduced likelihood of the massive sovs trying to take it away from you. If they did then the cycle simply repeats.

That's not to say any small alliance won't have to defend it too but it's all relative. If you can, you deserve it. If you can't..... And even a startup alliance is going to be limited in their ability to expand without growth.

Perhaps my "evil cunning plan" is just simply stalling the inevitable fact that Eve is too damn small now.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Ghazu
#43 - 2012-09-24 00:54:36 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
having to defend 23/7 against giant alliances will help small alliances because

woulda thought that was self evident

Explain how the Southern Coalition flipping Providence in an afternoon during the Providence wars (or PL doing it to Providence in early 2012) would have been a great victory for small groups in 0.0.

Or

Get a wormhole guy in here to endorse the idea of making a small group (aka a wormhole corp) have to defend their POSs 23/7 thanks to the addition of something like wormhole stabilizers.

Agreed somewhet but in essence if you cannot be there to defend your space all the time the obvious consequence is having less of it and a reduced ability (and desire) to grab more of it.

It stands to reason that it is now available for someone else with a reduced likelihood of the massive sovs trying to take it away from you. If they did then the cycle simply repeats.

That's not to say any small alliance won't have to defend it too but it's all relative. If you can, you deserve it. If you can't..... And even a startup alliance is going to be limited in their ability to expand without growth.

Perhaps my "evil cunning plan" is just simply stalling the inevitable fact that Eve is too damn small now.

Defend against your one shuttle? Bring a fleet, siege dreads and triage carriers see if anyone comes.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#44 - 2012-09-24 01:01:08 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:
having to defend 23/7 against giant alliances will help small alliances because

woulda thought that was self evident

Explain how the Southern Coalition flipping Providence in an afternoon during the Providence wars (or PL doing it to Providence in early 2012) would have been a great victory for small groups in 0.0.

Or

Get a wormhole guy in here to endorse the idea of making a small group (aka a wormhole corp) have to defend their POSs 23/7 thanks to the addition of something like wormhole stabilizers.

Agreed somewhet but in essence if you cannot be there to defend your space all the time the obvious consequence is having less of it and a reduced ability (and desire) to grab more of it.

It stands to reason that it is now available for someone else with a reduced likelihood of the massive sovs trying to take it away from you. If they did then the cycle simply repeats.

That's not to say any small alliance won't have to defend it too but it's all relative. If you can, you deserve it. If you can't..... And even a startup alliance is going to be limited in their ability to expand without growth.

Perhaps my "evil cunning plan" is just simply stalling the inevitable fact that Eve is too damn small now.

Defend against your one shuttle? Bring a fleet, siege dreads and triage carriers see if anyone comes.

Oh dear. Another one who reads "shuttle", "defending space" and think that's the topic at hand.

The point was even if I did turn up with "fleet, siege dreads and triage carriers" the defense can be shrugged off and addressed 24 hours later. I don't have to be there - eva.

This has been countered already.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#45 - 2012-09-24 01:22:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Alavaria Fera
It would be a lot easier to burn down people's homes without reinforce timers, since the titans can do it really fast. Imagine, a "Supercap roam" that burns down half of someone's home because they didn't want to waste the cap on their Avatar. Or, if you were a smaller group with a few systems, all your things would be not only burning, but ash all of a sudden.

Let's rock and roll.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#46 - 2012-09-24 01:27:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
It would be a lot easier to burn down people's homes without reinforce timers, since the titans can do it really fast. Imagine, a "Supercap roam" that burns down half of someone's home because they didn't want to waste the cap on their Avatar. Or, if you were a smaller group with a few systems, all your things would be not only burning, but ash all of a sudden.

Let's rock and roll.

Well it would liven things up a little. Cool

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Ghazu
#47 - 2012-09-24 02:46:21 UTC
You think we like timers? As much as helicoptordicking supers around it gets old real fast. What was your complain again?

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984
Xolve
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#48 - 2012-09-24 04:04:58 UTC
Gotta love 'the have nots' whining at the 'haves' against part of the game they have no interest in participating in. The last time an accurate portrayal of this whole argument happened was in Monty Python.

Keep screaming 'HELP HELP WERE BEING OPPRESSED' you ******* plebes.

I'll keep laughing.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#49 - 2012-09-24 04:05:59 UTC
Xolve wrote:
Gotta love 'the have nots' whining at the 'haves' against part of the game they have no interest in participating in. The last time an accurate portrayal of this whole argument happened was in Monty Python.

Keep screaming 'HELP HELP WERE BEING OPPRESSED' you ******* plebes.

I'll keep laughing.

I see you read the thread properly then.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#50 - 2012-09-24 04:10:35 UTC
Ghazu wrote:
You think we like timers? As much as helicoptordicking supers around it gets old real fast. What was your complain again?

Yeah, our helicoptor basically is stopped by the reinforce timer.

Without that, it would go all the way in.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#51 - 2012-09-24 04:16:25 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Ghazu wrote:
You think we like timers? As much as helicoptordicking supers around it gets old real fast. What was your complain again?

Yeah, our helicoptor basically is stopped by the reinforce timer.

Without that, it would go all the way in.

As it would for everyone else which is kinda my point.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Hypercake Mix
#52 - 2012-09-24 04:28:16 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
... our helicoptor...

soi soi soi soi soi soi soi

Anyway, there is wasted space because EVE is a game.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2012-09-24 06:52:08 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Agreed somewhet but in essence if you cannot be there to defend your space all the time the obvious consequence is having less of it and a reduced ability (and desire) to grab more of it.

It stands to reason that it is now available for someone else with a reduced likelihood of the massive sovs trying to take it away from you. If they did then the cycle simply repeats.

That's not to say any small alliance won't have to defend it too but it's all relative. If you can, you deserve it. If you can't..... And even a startup alliance is going to be limited in their ability to expand without growth.

Perhaps my "evil cunning plan" is just simply stalling the inevitable fact that Eve is too damn small now.

Your evil cunning plan is based around the false assumption that there are new small alliances out there just begging for the opportunity to invade a -0.1 constellation in Cloud Ring or Pure Blind. If only it wasn't for the Big Napfest Power Projecting Meanies, they could fulfill their dreams of ratting and mining in space essentially no better than empire, with the added joy of paying sov bills, and hauling, assembling and fuelling the various structures required.

Despite your complaint that the big alliances are suppressing the Little Guy, the fact is that those small hopeful alliances do not exist, because the space we're discussing is so worthless that there's no incentive for them to move from empire, where incursions and level 4s provide superior income levels, and where all the security you could possibly want is handed over on a plate. And it will stay that way until 0.0 income generation is fundamentally re-written and risk/reward balance is addressed properly.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
William Walker
Dark Venture Corporation
Kitchen Sinkhole
#54 - 2012-09-24 07:06:22 UTC
CryLegalize boosters in highsec!!!

ヽ(⌒∇⌒)ﾉ へ(゜∇、°)へ (◕‿◕✿)
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#55 - 2012-09-24 07:13:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Scatim Helicon wrote:

...Your evil cunning plan is based around the false assumption that there are new small alliances out there just begging for the opportunity to invade a -0.1 constellation in Cloud Ring or Pure Blind.....

Despite your complaint that the big alliances are suppressing the Little Guy, the fact is that those small hopeful alliances do not exist, because the space we're discussing is so worthless that there's no incentive for them to move from empire, where incursions and level 4s provide superior income levels, and where all the security you could possibly want is handed over on a plate. And it will stay that way until 0.0 income generation is fundamentally re-written and risk/reward balance is addressed properly.

Actually they can "invade" wherever they damn well please and I never said big bad meanie is suppressing sweet little Billy either.

There is actually life in Eve beyond Goonsville. Your territory just happened to be in my path and my OP even asked if it was the same elsewhere which I presume it is.

And really, if it is so worthless with no incentive etc. why you there and why are Goons grabbing MOAR?

Anyway, stop thinking I give a **** about Goons and look at the question I posed.

The space does not need to be defended 23/7 because there is no need to do so

Modifying how structures sit safely on timers could (I'm not saying it will) change the way things are done in more ways than I can count. I ACCEPT the space vacated under such a regime may in fact be left vacant and unattended or it may in fact be occupied. I don't really know.

I ASKED.

If we can't even consider options and debate then your claim that "... 0.0 income generation [needs to be] fundamentally re-written and risk/reward balance [is] addressed properly" will NEVER be addressed - there is no need because you seem (as does most of 0.0) ready to accept and defend the status quo - for whatever reason.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
#56 - 2012-09-24 07:30:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Mistah Ewedynao
Not real up on Null sec stuff, but Goons as a group make me wanna projectile vomit also, does that help?

Got the part of insta Cyno a swarm of neck beards, that sucks, watched it once cloaked in low sec.

So what? Honestly the huge alliance thing is what keeps me, and I think alot like me from null sec.

Could CCP's cuddling with the big alliances be wrong?

Nerf Goons

Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
Dread Pirate Pete
Doomheim
#57 - 2012-09-24 07:36:01 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Find me a nation on Earth that commits EVERY resource into offense with defense allowed to be on a safe little timer?


If you take a drive through Canada, you will find it is essentially empty. Apart from staging systems around the border, the occasional logistics railway, you'll be lucky to find a single guy ratting for moose. The Canadians don't have anything to defend it with! Most their active forces are away fighting people hiding in the mountains. Sure, if you start shooting at stuff the authorities will show up and deal with you, but shouldn't they have to acctively do something to defend their space?

CCP plz fix Canada.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#58 - 2012-09-24 07:48:21 UTC
Dread Pirate Pete wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Find me a nation on Earth that commits EVERY resource into offense with defense allowed to be on a safe little timer?


If you take a drive through Canada, you will find it is essentially empty. Apart from staging systems around the border, the occasional logistics railway, you'll be lucky to find a single guy ratting for moose. The Canadians don't have anything to defend it with! Most their active forces are away fighting people hiding in the mountains. Sure, if you start shooting at stuff the authorities will show up and deal with you, but shouldn't they have to acctively do something to defend their space?

CCP plz fix Canada.

Australia same mate. But as a Goon put it. Who'd want it.

I might even accept that as a fair negation of that particular point except - except - that the majority of Canadian forces are still IN Canada - not 100% invading another territory.

If Canada ever did go on the offensive (I dunno, Alaska maybe?) they would not deploy everything. No nation does.

Only people I saw left behind in CFC/HBC/EO/GFC/ABC/XYZ/WTF territory were bots ratters.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
pussnheels
Viziam
#59 - 2012-09-24 08:40:13 UTC
OP has good point


Most of it is wasted and underused
and rhen they whine for more content in their little nullsec empire as some alliances tend todo ,

I do not agree with what you are saying , but i will defend to the death your right to say it...... Voltaire
Ghazu
#60 - 2012-09-24 14:46:03 UTC
Maybe there should be a thing like you dent 10% of the iHub's shield the system won't spawn anoms for say like 3 hours
the more effort you put into disruption more hours of disruption you can inflict upon the sov owners.

Because sometimes you'd go out roaming 2 hours and they all blueball you and this way at least can take a dump in their house before you leave.

http://www.minerbumping.com/ lol what the christ https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2299984#post2299984