EVE General Discussion

But we keep pointing out that we can defend it all 23/7, and it is the little guy who can't.

I think we are showing you more restraint than you deserve because you are coming up with an idea for a POSageddon that would put goons on easy street forever. And by forever, I mean about a month until ccp just has to pull the plug on the servers and file for bankruptcy. You just don't realize how wrong you are.

Now this is change I can believe in.

Nicolo da'Vicenza for CSM 8

1) Yep. Said so. Even gave a rough number to set the scene.
2) POS defense "level" is open for debate. Also gave a rough number to set the scene.
3) Up for debate. I suspect it would need it - what that is? meh.

Gogogogo shite.

When the hell did I say you said that? I said who said it. You should probably avoid comments like "do you ever use your eyes" until you're actually able to read.

Yes, many people do make isk in null sec. Unfortunately that same isk can be made safer and easier in high sec. Wasted systems ahve nothing to do with sov mechanics, they're wasted because there's no reason to use them. If CCP made them worth using, there would be people in them, and changing PoS mechanics doesn't make them worth using.

hey but even without timers will you scrubs bring the capitals?

okay homie let's discuss this for real.

There's no real barrier for anyone who actually wants to get into nullsec on a physical basis, just a total lack of motivation to do so because while alliance level income like renters and technetium is extremely lucrative in paying for in-game costs of owning space like sov and fuel, and metagame things like SRPs, individual level income (the isk I make while undocked in a ship) isn't good enough to justify the losses and opportunity costs.

The trick to making your scenario of mobs of scrubs start squatting in a guy's space while they're on 100% deployment is not by making structures way easier to flip (spoiler: they'll flip yours even easier plus they have the support network to actually profit from taking and defending them, unlike you), but by making living in nullsec so appealing for individuals that anyone who takes a corner of space and doesn't use it has highseccers popping out of wormholes with bestowers full of pos modules and dreams, mining away and manufacturing assloads of thrashers to defend their new home. Then before you know it Issler Dainze has ganked your PI hauler as your alliance's bears keep stumbling into these ratnests of squatters.

Why nobody does this now is because everything on an individual level, except grinding isk, building supercaps and mining high end ore, is not only much safer but far easier and more profitable in highsec. Mining? the NPC stations in highsec have better refine rates then the 0.0 POS, or for that matter the 20 bil 0.0 nullsec station. Manufacturing? Single systems in highsec can outproduce entire nullsec regions. Research? Just as cheap and fast to do it under CONCORD protection and dec-shielded POSs. "Oh boy, sneak in to nullsec and lose money? No thanks"

So you can grind isk that has a higher payout then the l4 missions on paper, except there's no upper limit to the amount of pimping one can do on a highsec mission boat, while the nullsec ratting ship has to be disposable on at least some level, meaning there's a performance gap. High end ores make more money, but you can't build anything without also mining large amounts of low-end ore, which is done safer and more profitability in highsec.

So nobody except the big nullsec empires really consider the space worth the effort of taking.

The first real step I figure to making nullsec sufficiently appealing would be to adjust null/high manufacturing capacity to where nullsec was at least capable of supplying its own industrial needs (60-70% of ship consumption in EVE) and highsec industry capacity would be reduced to being able to supply its own portion of EVE ship consumption (26%) and scarcity of manufacturing slots in high would start to make highsec manufacturers broaden the scope of their operations in order to reduce overhead and gain competitive advantage over their rivals. As opposed to now where the best way to keep ahead of one's rivals is never leave <0.5 space. Highsec wouldn't lose any stations, but there'd be less efficient refining and less manufacturing slots per station then their nullsec counterparts, instead of vice versa. Since we're talking about commodities and not raw ISK here, supply/demand will kick and ore and products will be worth far more individually and wouldn't be that big a nerf to the dedicated highsec industrialist.

Second would be to make mining lowends more productive in null/low then in high.

That will be a grand day of reckoning for highsec. When suddenly null starts to be self-sufficient in production, and we no longer buy from jita, when ships are destroyed and replaced in null.

Oh bite me.

I'm seeing his post as one way to fix 0.0 for exisitng stakeholders and yes, some similar points have been made and I've never disputed it.

But it does not stop blueballing and napfests which are ALSO reasons for smaller alliances to not even try 0.0. They cannot compete without wearing a pet hat which is not competition, it's acceptance of the inevitable because 0.0 mechanics made it so.

There is no competition when everything is blue on one side and red on the other. Realistically it's pretty well down to a matter of time now isn't it.

Putting aside my metallic hat, more importantly, is the extra 0.0 potential going to drag the displaced/jacked off highseccers into 0.0 or just provide more reasons for existing 0seccers to come back/use their space more?

i.e. Will highseccers just suck it up or actually make the move?


(And seriously Zim. The ball. Play the ball. It's getting a bit old mate.)

HIS suggestion for extra 0.0 potential - not mine! (I'm looking to reduce potential!)

And from what I could glean from your little blast, don't matter what we do, nothing changes. So the best thing is do nothing and slam dunk anybody that even TRIES to look for solution.

That'll fix it.

Welcome to 0.0 fellow capsuleer. Where's my rent money?

Sure it does.

1) If isk-making opportunity for individuals in nullsec was high enough, going after some power bloc's tech/neo/dys moon would be completely unnecessary. Squatters in an empty area only held for moon income would be PvEing away right under the moon mining alliance's nose.

2) If nullsec manufacturing was an actual thing and not a bunch of alts in highsec, large nullsec coalitions would be inclined to defend their source of guns and ships that feed their war machine, which would now be located in null instead of highsec. If you somehow flip my tech moon, no big deal I jump clone over and flip it right back the next day with 10x the numbers you brought, doing in minutes what took you several hours of watching a health bar on a structure drop, and making you zero profit. Perhaps one day of potential profit was lost, but no actual losses were even incurred on my end. If you burn down my shipyard however, that is a real, tangible loss.