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CONCORD, lowsec, and the hunted
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Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2012-09-23 02:13:23 UTC
Quote:
It is an exploit to evade CONCORD.

EVE Online is about the stories we make. It's why I play. Currently, the story of a criminal goes like this:

Scouting for potential targets, I came across a suitable victim and opened fire. Then the police got me. At least my friend got the guy's stuff. The end.

I would humbly offer this:

Once I fired, I would barely have enough time to escape. The cops are quick in this area, but I needed a lot of firepower for this job, which meant sacrificing a faster hull. I wasn't even sure this was going to work. For all I knew, CONCORD was already in-system. Regardless, I locked on and fired. There was a small moment to appreciate the light show before I was finished aligning. THEY were already here. I took some damage, but managed to get away before they scrammed me.

I must have gone through five systems already, each one adding to my rap sheet. It didn't matter; the loot was more than worth it. One thing's for sure: I wasn't flying big in high sec for a while. THE END??

Now, I know enough about player tendencies and game mechanics to see some obvious exploits in the above scenario (ship-swapping, boomerang: the revenge, etc.), but I'd rather leave discussion of mechanics and their effects to the community, who know a whole lot more about this than I do. Basically, the end goals are:

  • CONCORD is part of your stories, not the end of them.
  • Lowsec has a great reason to exist. It's where criminals escape to.
  • And where vigilantes go to hunt for fun and profit.
  • With crime a viable profession, trade hubs become juicy targets and have to split somewhat. (Hopefully?)
  • Highsec becomes more interesting, but not obscenely dangerous.

Occasionally plays sober
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2012-09-23 02:13:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Jett0
Alrighty, part 2. These go along the same crime theme, but could also stand alone.


The "mission" or "contract" bounty system always appealed to me. Here's a rough combination of previous ideas, with a few of my own:

  • Bounty agents (in lowsec?) dispense contracts.
  • A contract enables a hunter to collect the bounty on that person.
  • A contract also gives the hunter kill rights on the bounty head. Even in highsec.
  • A hunter can take multiple contracts.
  • Contracts can be dropped at any time.
  • Hunters have "rank," increased by completing contracts.
  • Bounties have a maximum payment cap, which increases with hunter rank.
  • ...which means large bounties could be hunted multiple times.


Tools of the trade: Because hacking needs love too. Note that the numbers are arbitrary. The idea is to compliment locator agents.

  • Highsec and lowsec stargates will "remember" the last several unique pilots to use them.
  • In highsec, the last 15 names are public.
  • You can pay a fee to search a specific name within the last 30.
  • In lowsec, you can hack the gates to get up to 10, depending on skill.
  • Use a codebreaker in low to search a name among (up to) the last 20.

Occasionally plays sober
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#3 - 2012-09-23 02:19:03 UTC
Personally if you can evade Concord I reckon you should get hero status.

However, if Concord DOES get you for being a crim then take it like a crim, do your time, shut yer cakehole and move on.

Too many crybabies who **** on people and bemoan the consequences. There are plenty of places to shoot **** and NOT have Concord.

When there's options, crying about one aspect that is PREVENTABLE is lame.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2012-09-23 02:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Touval Lysander wrote:
Personally if you can evade Concord I reckon you should get hero status.

However, if Concord DOES get you for being a crim then take it like a crim, do your time, shut yer cakehole and move on.

Too many crybabies who **** on people and bemoan the consequences. There are plenty of places to shoot **** and NOT have Concord.

When there's options, crying about one aspect that is PREVENTABLE is lame.


CCP was just -EDIT- Profanity - ISD Tyrozan they never thought people would possibly use a black ops jump drive to evade concord Straight

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#5 - 2012-09-23 02:44:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Personally if you can evade Concord I reckon you should get hero status.

However, if Concord DOES get you for being a crim then take it like a crim, do your time, shut yer cakehole and move on.

Too many crybabies who **** on people and bemoan the consequences. There are plenty of places to shoot **** and NOT have Concord.

When there's options, crying about one aspect that is PREVENTABLE is lame.


CCP was just -EDIT- ISD Tyrozan they never thought people would possibly use a black ops jump drive to evade concord Straight

Build it and they will exploit it Blink

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2012-09-23 02:46:30 UTC
Er... I suppose I should clarify: I'm saying CONCORD is boring, not overpowered.

I want to see an option to run, with a corresponding hit to your sec status per system dodged. And your GCC stays until they get you.

Occasionally plays sober
James 315
Experimental Fun Times Corp RELOADED
CODE.
#7 - 2012-09-23 02:50:54 UTC
A way to blow up neutral ships in highsec and potentially get away with it? Count me in, it sounds emergent! Cool

MinerBumping.com
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#8 - 2012-09-23 02:52:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Jett0 wrote:
Er... I suppose I should clarify: I'm saying CONCORD is boring, not overpowered.

I want to see an option to run, with a corresponding hit to your sec status per system dodged. And your GCC stays until they get you.

No. GCC timer comes off the longer you evade.

I want to see incentives for good flying... Run rabbit run......

Yes. Further.

Concord gets warp bubbles, infinite point and Polaris head gear on their Pursuit Drams.

Radio call goes out and a super Concord turns up to oversee the operation as more Pursuit Drams poor in....

Take out a couple of innocents and they'll call off the pursuit. WIN!!!

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#9 - 2012-09-23 02:59:32 UTC
Just one problem: it breaks the defining characteristic of highsec — that aggression costs.
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2012-09-23 03:03:23 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Jett0 wrote:
Er... I suppose I should clarify: I'm saying CONCORD is boring, not overpowered.

I want to see an option to run, with a corresponding hit to your sec status per system dodged. And your GCC stays until they get you.

No. GCC timer comes off the longer you evade.

I want to see incentives for good flying... Run rabbit run......

Yes. Further.

Concord gets warp bubbles, infinite point and Polaris head gear on their Pursuit Drams.

Radio call goes out and a super Concord turns up to oversee the operation as more Pursuit Drams poor in....

Take out a couple of innocents and they'll call off the pursuit. WIN!!!

Metal Gear Solid in space?

James 315 wrote:
A way to blow up neutral ships in highsec and potentially get away with it? Count me in, it sounds emergent! Cool

Temporarily, at least, if you're fast and don't mind the additional consequences.

Occasionally plays sober
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#11 - 2012-09-23 03:41:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Touval Lysander
Tippia wrote:
Just one problem: it breaks the defining characteristic of highsec — that aggression costs.

Aggression costs in every sector. The only variable is who gets pissed off about it.

Which makes Concord evasion as a technique more plausible. In every other sector, my superb skills can save me. In highsec it's as good as fait accompli and even if I CAN evade I'm still punished.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#12 - 2012-09-23 03:44:17 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Aggression costs in every sector.
…except for nullsec in lowsec. That leaves highsec as the part of space where aggression comes at a cost. Whether you choose to pay for it in ISK (wardecs) or items (suicide gank) is up to you, but it's only in highsec that these costs exist.
stoicfaux
#13 - 2012-09-23 03:47:53 UTC
I'm okay with escaping from CONCORD to low-sec, however, CONCORD would need to have a long memory, meaning, if you're ever seen in high-sec again, you get attacked until you pay restitution to the victims of your crimes. If your rap sheet is excessive, then you're "banned" (i.e. shoot on sight) in high-sec.

All I'm saying is that career criminals should get the public recognition (by private, corporate, faction, and CONCORD authorities) that they deserve.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2012-09-23 03:52:31 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Tyrozan
Touval Lysander wrote:
Surfin's PlunderBunny wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Personally if you can evade Concord I reckon you should get hero status.

However, if Concord DOES get you for being a crim then take it like a crim, do your time, shut yer cakehole and move on.

Too many crybabies who **** on people and bemoan the consequences. There are plenty of places to shoot **** and NOT have Concord.

When there's options, crying about one aspect that is PREVENTABLE is lame.


CCP was just they never thought people would possibly use a black ops jump drive to evade concord Straight

Build it and they will exploit it Blink


I remember sitting there for 4 hours watching one guy tank concord, forgot that guy's name but he is the king of all players in Eve in my mind Big smile

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#15 - 2012-09-23 03:52:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Aggression costs in every sector.
…except for nullsec in lowsec. That leaves highsec as the part of space where aggression comes at a cost. Whether you choose to pay for it in ISK (wardecs) or items (suicide gank) is up to you, but it's only in highsec that these costs exist.

Huh? Try being aggresive in null/low and tell me there's no cost.

In 0.0/low you just dont bother declaring war and a "suicide gank" is a small roam in a fortified zone - otherwise the motivation and the consequences remain pretty much the same.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#16 - 2012-09-23 03:58:47 UTC
Touval Lysander wrote:
Huh? Try being aggresive in null/low and tell me there's no cost.
None. There is a chance that you might screw up and lose your ship, but there is no enforced cost. You can shoot people for years on end and not lose a single cent.

…unless your client is bugged and you're triggering CONCORD outside of highsec and need to use wardecs to keep them from doing that, in which case you should probably report your problem to CCP.
Touval Lysander
Zero Wine
#17 - 2012-09-23 04:09:51 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Huh? Try being aggresive in null/low and tell me there's no cost.
None. There is a chance that you might screw up and lose your ship, but there is no enforced cost. You can shoot people for years on end and not lose a single cent.

Tippia has never been in 0.0 Shocked

I'm not even arguing this anyway. What I'm arguing is that you should ALSO have the chance to

Quote:

shoot people for years on end and not lose a single cent


in highsec with good skills/cunning

A criminal is not killed or caught in situ under normal circumstances and using skill/cunning he should be able to remain at large indefinetly. It's HIS call to take the risk of potentially being caught/killed whatever by continuing to operate in a "dangerous" zone.

Make being and remaining a badass crim exciting instead of fait accompli.

"I've always been mad, I know I've been mad, like the most of us...very hard to explain why you're mad, even if you're not mad..."
Jett0
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2012-09-23 04:09:56 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Touval Lysander wrote:
Huh? Try being aggresive in null/low and tell me there's no cost.
None. There is a chance that you might screw up and lose your ship, but there is no enforced cost. You can shoot people for years on end and not lose a single cent.

…unless your client is bugged and you're triggering CONCORD outside of highsec and need to use wardecs to keep them from doing that, in which case you should probably report your problem to CCP.

I think these arguments are mostly semantic in nature, but bring up good points.

Touval is right that everything has consequences. I would argue that awoxing in null carries a potentially bigger consequence than anything CONCORD could dish out.

But Tippia's implication that NPC consequences affect player behavior is also correct. It's what makes highsec what it is, for good or ill. And I have no intention of a "nullified" highsec.

Fugitives, career criminals, smugglers, and bounty hunters don't currently exist in EVE in a way that I find satisfying. I'd like to see these professions grow, and I think CONCORD's "BOOM, okay now you're semi-forgiven" approach is hurting that.

Occasionally plays sober
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#19 - 2012-09-23 04:14:30 UTC
...another Crimewatch thread?

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Nostradamouse Riraille
S.M.U.G.G.L.E.
#20 - 2012-09-23 04:18:24 UTC
Posting in a stealth freighters are too hard to kill thread.
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