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Crime & Punishment

 
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Dec Shield - End of the Second Era

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FireusI
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#481 - 2012-12-09 12:57:57 UTC
I total agree with you Raesha Nardieu if it was not for us miners eve would be DEAD cuz no one would have any thing to fly or buying.


As for PVP done it got board of it lived in null got borad of that too

As for mining love it made good friends while doing this built loads of stuff in eve and sold it to PVP'ers

So i see a circle here
miners mine
builders build
sellers sale
pvper pvp

so if u dont have the 1st in the list what u going to be flying or killing

So what the hell u going to fly or blow up

ur own captain quaters or ur own pc

Mara Tessidar
Perkone
Caldari State
#482 - 2012-12-09 13:11:57 UTC
FireusI wrote:
I total agree with you Raesha Nardieu if it was not for us miners eve would be DEAD cuz no one would have any thing to fly or buying.


As for PVP done it got board of it lived in null got borad of that too

As for mining love it made good friends while doing this built loads of stuff in eve and sold it to PVP'ers

So i see a circle here
miners mine
builders build
sellers sale
pvper pvp

so if u dont have the 1st in the list what u going to be flying or killing

So what the hell u going to fly or blow up

ur own captain quaters or ur own pc



You are dumb
Isana Tori
Doomheim
#483 - 2012-12-09 14:12:54 UTC
How do all these people suggest bringing war dec problems to light without having actual cases to point to? You don't think it's odd that once the numbers began to rise and major players in Eve were caught that this was fixed? For all the complaining about Dec Shield, he actually did get the wars fixed (mostly), which if you look at the very first post, was his goal all along.

I do find it funny that all the people here complaining about him are forgetting one thing: they declared war on someone to get trapped. This was not a case of some poor defenseless carebear having Dec Shield run up on them. Yes, eve RvB went out of its way to dec someone else in a system they really should have known was bugged.

I also laugh at the different replies from people. Carebears are convinced the sky is falling and "elite pvpers" haven't even noticed so they say. It's almost like a default response from these people in any situation.

Hopefully more and more war dec bugs go away and we can move on to other problems to fix and maybe we'll all get trapped in that too!
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#484 - 2012-12-09 15:17:27 UTC
Isana Tori wrote:
How do all these people suggest bringing war dec problems to light without having actual cases to point to? You don't think it's odd that once the numbers began to rise and major players in Eve were caught that this was fixed? For all the complaining about Dec Shield, he actually did get the wars fixed (mostly), which if you look at the very first post, was his goal all along.

I do find it funny that all the people here complaining about him are forgetting one thing: they declared war on someone to get trapped. This was not a case of some poor defenseless carebear having Dec Shield run up on them. Yes, eve RvB went out of its way to dec someone else in a system they really should have known was bugged.

I also laugh at the different replies from people. Carebears are convinced the sky is falling and "elite pvpers" haven't even noticed so they say. It's almost like a default response from these people in any situation.

Hopefully more and more war dec bugs go away and we can move on to other problems to fix and maybe we'll all get trapped in that too!

So if I dec some one to get what seems to be a dead corp dead stick pos out, and then they run to Dec shield it is my fault?

I do agrree nemesis of Buzz lightyear accomplished his goal of getting mutual fixed.
His new find may or may not work is now starting to push it.
Given that as he can not talk about it, but from the time line it seems he explicity sought it out rather than going and finding it to be a natural part of the game.
Sort of like how I can take down a pos without a personal war dec.
Not that it works anymore due to the change in flags.
Or does it, hmm need to go and test.
Mund Richard
#485 - 2012-12-09 15:17:44 UTC
Isana Tori wrote:
I do find it funny that all the people here complaining about him are forgetting one thing: they declared war on someone to get trapped. This was not a case of some poor defenseless carebear having Dec Shield run up on them. Yes, eve RvB went out of its way to dec someone else in a system they really should have known was bugged.

Point there, true.
Let's assume after a wardec declared on them, finding the agressors 1-man-corp OGB, they dec that? Agression, or evening the play field?
How about if carebears wardec notorious canflippers/ninjasalvagers aiming at them when only a few are online? Agression or self-defence?

Sometimes a war started before the dec, ignoring that is... ignorance.

Then again, it can get to kindergarten levels really fast:
"I did it because he did this" - "I only did this because he did that" - "That I did because this one time he..."

"We want PvE activities to require active participation and mirror PvP more closely." Stacking penalty for NPC EWAR then? Lock range under 9km from over 100 in a BS is not fun. Nor is two NPC web drones making me crawl 10m/s. PvP SW-900 x5: 75m/s.
Hinsty David
Doomheim
#486 - 2012-12-09 15:31:25 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:

So if I dec some one to get what seems to be a dead corp dead stick pos out, and then they run to Dec shield it is my fault?

I do agrree nemesis of Buzz lightyear accomplished his goal of getting mutual fixed.
His new find may or may not work is now starting to push it.
Given that as he can not talk about it, but from the time line it seems he explicity sought it out rather than going and finding it to be a natural part of the game.
Sort of like how I can take down a pos without a personal war dec.
Not that it works anymore due to the change in flags.
Or does it, hmm need to go and test.



Your fault? Kinda? It's a busted system, and if you want to engage in war decs in a busted system, you have to know this could happen. There were and are ways to get around getting caught in that trap and still kill the tower, it's just easier to flat out dec them.

So I wouldn't exactly lay all the blame at your feet, but as Eve is fond of telling us, actions have consequences. And in a busted system, sometimes you get pulled in. Be glad it has been mostly fixed now and the worst (mutual trapping) is now gone for the most part.
Hinsty David
Doomheim
#487 - 2012-12-09 15:36:11 UTC
Mund Richard wrote:
Isana Tori wrote:
I do find it funny that all the people here complaining about him are forgetting one thing: they declared war on someone to get trapped. This was not a case of some poor defenseless carebear having Dec Shield run up on them. Yes, eve RvB went out of its way to dec someone else in a system they really should have known was bugged.

Point there, true.
Let's assume after a wardec declared on them, finding the agressors 1-man-corp OGB, they dec that? Agression, or evening the play field?
How about if carebears wardec notorious canflippers/ninjasalvagers aiming at them when only a few are online? Agression or self-defence?

Sometimes a war started before the dec, ignoring that is... ignorance.

Then again, it can get to kindergarten levels really fast:
"I did it because he did this" - "I only did this because he did that" - "That I did because this one time he..."


It is indeed a constant one up. When people war dec someone for ANY reasons, it's an escalation of the conflict. It's not really fair for one side to decide when the escalation is over.

One group decides to escalate by going to war, it's not unusual to suspect the other side will ratchet it up as well. If there was another step in the process (and there are) the first group would probably do that as well.

It was a "I'll call and raise" moment that the deccers didn't see coming and now want no part of but its too late. You can't back out of that hand now.
Cannibal Kane
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#488 - 2012-12-09 16:54:15 UTC
Well...

It was only a matter of time but I finally got pulled into Dec Shield.

My Corp will now go on ice and I will create multiple corps purely to go after these guys.

"Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#489 - 2012-12-09 20:38:49 UTC  |  Edited by: NEONOVUS
Cannibal Kane wrote:
Well...

It was only a matter of time but I finally got pulled into Dec Shield.

My Corp will now go on ice and I will create multiple corps purely to go after these guys.

Wait why exactly does this harm you?
I mean I will help you if you need t1 stuff run as much as I can.
For everything else, use Red Frog with a 24 hour preplan for positioning.
Hinsty David wrote:
[quote=Mund Richard]

It is indeed a constant one up. When people war dec someone for ANY reasons, it's an escalation of the conflict. It's not really fair for one side to decide when the escalation is over.

One group decides to escalate by going to war, it's not unusual to suspect the other side will ratchet it up as well. If there was another step in the process (and there are) the first group would probably do that as well.

It was a "I'll call and raise" moment that the deccers didn't see coming and now want no part of but its too late. You can't back out of that hand now.

So wait no war dec= no conflict as defined in the EULA (ignore emergent gameplay here)
Thus what ever led to the need for war would go unpunished.
Given that none of these defending corps have attempted to do things on their own, I would say they are using an exploit to gain an advantage now.
If you were to tell me that the decced corp set it to mutual and then signed on all of nullsec through copious usage of alcahol and cash, I would say hazards of the game.
But now that the corp is running away from the fight and then being told its not their fault and the other group was bullying issues arise.
And saying well its a bugged system so you shouldnt use it is an example of ill thought (similar to blaming the Austrailian DJs for the nurses death when the international media declared her persona and everything else)
Given that dec sheild was explicitly created to remove any threat to defenders by decoupling consequences of war from the actions precipitating I would say that it definitely should be shutdown now that its stated goal is over.
Further continuance of its existence risks mission creep as it attempts to find ever more bizarre reasons to justify itself.
Hinsty David
Doomheim
#490 - 2012-12-09 21:07:39 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:



So wait no war dec= no conflict as defined in the EULA (ignore emergent gameplay here)
Thus what ever led to the need for war would go unpunished.
Given that none of these defending corps have attempted to do things on their own, I would say they are using an exploit to gain an advantage now.
If you were to tell me that the decced corp set it to mutual and then signed on all of nullsec through copious usage of alcahol and cash, I would say hazards of the game.
But now that the corp is running away from the fight and then being told its not their fault and the other group was bullying issues arise.
And saying well its a bugged system so you shouldnt use it is an example of ill thought (similar to blaming the Austrailian DJs for the nurses death when the international media declared her persona and everything else)
Given that dec sheild was explicitly created to remove any threat to defenders by decoupling consequences of war from the actions precipitating I would say that it definitely should be shutdown now that its stated goal is over.
Further continuance of its existence risks mission creep as it attempts to find ever more bizarre reasons to justify itself.


I think Zerg is looking to make sure there are no more exploits in the war dec system. If there is no way to trap people, then there is nothing for him to do. I'm not how he could continue or "justify itself" if the war dec bugs are gone.

If Dec Shield CAN continue with war dec mechanics issue, then it clearly isn't solved yet and the stated goal isn't over.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#491 - 2012-12-09 21:11:16 UTC
The stated goal was to get mutual wars to not be a flip switch walk off thing, and about wars carrying.
Both of those have been fixed.
He has a possible third one that is related but doesnt talk about it since he is in dialogue with CCP on it until the 12th.
So if those clear any further existence is as mentioned mission creep.
Hinsty David
Doomheim
#492 - 2012-12-09 21:17:54 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
The stated goal was to get mutual wars to not be a flip switch walk off thing, and about wars carrying.
Both of those have been fixed.
He has a possible third one that is related but doesnt talk about it since he is in dialogue with CCP on it until the 12th.
So if those clear any further existence is as mentioned mission creep.


I agree with you but again I ask. Even if he WANTED to continue this.... what could he do? If all avenues of war dec griefing are closed, what are his options?

If he has options to keep using Dec Shield, they obviously didn't fix everything?
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#493 - 2012-12-09 22:53:55 UTC
Hinsty David wrote:

I agree with you but again I ask. Even if he WANTED to continue this.... what could he do? If all avenues of war dec griefing are closed, what are his options?

If he has options to keep using Dec Shield, they obviously didn't fix everything?

If everything is fixed then we'll make the public announcements, hang up the towel, and then go dormant until we're needed again.

Raesha Nardieu wrote:

You say you want to end high sec griefing yet in the case of my alliance *YOU* are the griefers...how are you trying to get matters resolved when you are snide and unresponsive to all attempts at diplomacy?

You go against yourself by saying you wish to bring attention to the broken mechanics and end highsec griefing yet you are guilty of the same thing you are so-called trying to stop and paint yourself here as being a sort of Robin Hood when you're no better than the thugs you protect.

I just wished to point out Dec Shield are not and have not been acting as admirably and honourably as they would like all of you here to believe and are actually griefers themselves that are further contributing to the rising ship and mineral costs by not allowing carebears to get out and seed our markets.

Snide and unresponsive? As far as I know I haven't received any communication from your corp until 20 minutes ago. Sending a 0isk surrender offer does not constitute communication.

I am no Ser. If you are an aggressor, you are guilty.

I hear countless sob stories from every entity without dignity. I had to make a policy to decline them all, else no one would be trapped.

Burn Highsec Griefers
FnStrabo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#494 - 2012-12-10 03:08:58 UTC  |  Edited by: FnStrabo
Shocked
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Hinsty David wrote:

I agree with you but again I ask. Even if he WANTED to continue this.... what could he do? If all avenues of war dec griefing are closed, what are his options?

If he has options to keep using Dec Shield, they obviously didn't fix everything?

If everything is fixed then we'll make the public announcements, hang up the towel, and then go dormant until we're needed again.

Raesha Nardieu wrote:

You say you want to end high sec griefing yet in the case of my alliance *YOU* are the griefers...how are you trying to get matters resolved when you are snide and unresponsive to all attempts at diplomacy?

You go against yourself by saying you wish to bring attention to the broken mechanics and end highsec griefing yet you are guilty of the same thing you are so-called trying to stop and paint yourself here as being a sort of Robin Hood when you're no better than the thugs you protect.

I just wished to point out Dec Shield are not and have not been acting as admirably and honourably as they would like all of you here to believe and are actually griefers themselves that are further contributing to the rising ship and mineral costs by not allowing carebears to get out and seed our markets.

Snide and unresponsive? As far as I know I haven't received any communication from your corp until 20 minutes ago. Sending a 0isk surrender offer does not constitute communication.

I am no Ser. If you are an aggressor, you are guilty.

I hear countless sob stories from every entity without dignity. I had to make a policy to decline them all, else no one would be trapped.


Wow! Can I call BS on this guy ^^^

Zerg, according to you, this dec shield is supposed to get the griefers and aggressors. Funny... I know a corp that started an unprovoked WD. They were found using alts in another corp to boost/rep their pvp members who started the war. The defenders War dec'd the alt corp to keep them from being able to do this without potential for reprisal.

Guess who ran to dec shield? You supported the aggressor/griefer.

Your high ideals are just a bunch of BS. Your nothing more than a griefer yourself. Get off your high horse. CCP should just Ban you for exploitation of game mechanics.

Go crawl back into whatever hole you hatched in.
The Zerg Overmind
Rule Reversal
#495 - 2012-12-10 03:19:23 UTC
FnStrabo wrote:

Wow! Can I call BS on this guy ^^^

Zerg, according to you, this dec shield is supposed to get the griefers and aggressors. Funny... I know a corp that started an unprovoked WD. They were found using alts in another corp to boost/rep their pvp members who started the war. The defenders War dec'd the alt corp to keep them from being able to do this without potential for reprisal.

Guess who ran to dec shield? You supported the aggressor/griefer.

Your high ideals are just a bunch of BS. Your nothing more than a griefer yourself. Get off your high horse. CCP should just Ban you for exploitation of game mechanics.

Go crawl back into whatever hole you hatched in.

Quoted for the lulz

Burn Highsec Griefers
FnStrabo
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#496 - 2012-12-10 03:22:51 UTC
The Zerg Overmind wrote:


Quoted for the lulz



Spoken like a true troll of attention that you are.
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#497 - 2012-12-10 03:29:23 UTC
FnStrabo wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:


Quoted for the lulz



Spoken like a true troll of attention that you are.


Post with your main
Hinsty David
Doomheim
#498 - 2012-12-10 03:30:22 UTC
FnStrabo wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:


Quoted for the lulz



Spoken like a true troll of attention that you are.


You didn't have to come in here and bring up the story, so.... good job?
Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#499 - 2012-12-10 04:00:41 UTC
Hinsty David wrote:
FnStrabo wrote:
The Zerg Overmind wrote:


Quoted for the lulz



Spoken like a true troll of attention that you are.


You didn't have to come in here and bring up the story, so.... good job?


He's just mad because he's bald

"Little ginger moron" ~David Hasselhoff 

Want to see what Surf is training or how little isk Surf has?  http://eveboard.com/pilot/Surfin%27s_PlunderBunny
Joshua Foiritain
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#500 - 2012-12-10 12:06:07 UTC
FnStrabo wrote:
Shocked
The Zerg Overmind wrote:
Hinsty David wrote:

I agree with you but again I ask. Even if he WANTED to continue this.... what could he do? If all avenues of war dec griefing are closed, what are his options?

If he has options to keep using Dec Shield, they obviously didn't fix everything?

If everything is fixed then we'll make the public announcements, hang up the towel, and then go dormant until we're needed again.

Raesha Nardieu wrote:

You say you want to end high sec griefing yet in the case of my alliance *YOU* are the griefers...how are you trying to get matters resolved when you are snide and unresponsive to all attempts at diplomacy?

You go against yourself by saying you wish to bring attention to the broken mechanics and end highsec griefing yet you are guilty of the same thing you are so-called trying to stop and paint yourself here as being a sort of Robin Hood when you're no better than the thugs you protect.

I just wished to point out Dec Shield are not and have not been acting as admirably and honourably as they would like all of you here to believe and are actually griefers themselves that are further contributing to the rising ship and mineral costs by not allowing carebears to get out and seed our markets.

Snide and unresponsive? As far as I know I haven't received any communication from your corp until 20 minutes ago. Sending a 0isk surrender offer does not constitute communication.

I am no Ser. If you are an aggressor, you are guilty.

I hear countless sob stories from every entity without dignity. I had to make a policy to decline them all, else no one would be trapped.


Wow! Can I call BS on this guy ^^^

Zerg, according to you, this dec shield is supposed to get the griefers and aggressors. Funny... I know a corp that started an unprovoked WD. They were found using alts in another corp to boost/rep their pvp members who started the war. The defenders War dec'd the alt corp to keep them from being able to do this without potential for reprisal.

Guess who ran to dec shield? You supported the aggressor/griefer.

Your high ideals are just a bunch of BS. Your nothing more than a griefer yourself. Get off your high horse. CCP should just Ban you for exploitation of game mechanics.

Go crawl back into whatever hole you hatched in.

rofl, welcome to 6 months ago dude. Dec Shield is the most effective anti-carebear troll in the history of eve. Random carebears read this topic, join dec shield to get rid of their war and find out that instead of being at war with 1 corp they're now at war with hundreds. Most end up disbanding within a few days :p

Yay for free war targets, nay for the endless notification spam :(

The Coreli Corporation is recruiting.